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Your thoughts on Cena/Orton marks...; Also Cade if you want
Topic Started: Sep 22 2006, 04:45 PM (939 Views)
15 Shows
Aint cheatin aint tryin
Nebuchanezzar
Sep 22 2006, 11:44 PM
Like, with the site Ralphy was affiliated with. RD.

I dont think I was around for it. What happened?
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Nubochanozep
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Ralphy had some problems there, something happened, lots of porn posted here and lots of angryness between the two. We essentially ignored them. It worked out best that way.
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MY85
It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
My intention with this thread wasn't to start a flamewar. I just wanted to know everybody's opinions about the three things I pointed out. Guess I got some good replies from it.

And I think in my opinion, it's a tie between the last two, but the Cena marks are stubborn as hell.
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15 Shows
Aint cheatin aint tryin
Thats becasue there dead set that he is the greatest. And I mean how can he be the greatest when we all know there is only one man who is the greatest. And that man is obviously The Game, The King Of Kings, Triple H.
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TheObserver

Since this is wrestling related, it should've got thrown in the WWE folder, but I don't know what Cy thinks. :dunno:
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WWEFootos48
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God
Well, in terms of Shows' post, with Cena and Orton's growth, I have something to say towards that. As Cy said, they've been on TV at least 3-4 years now, and if anything, they've only gone downhill. Cena started off strong, got even stronger in 2003, but has fell flat in the past 2 years. Cena has just plainly gone bland, without using what "Made" his character. His interesting character was based off of this rapper, who would battle-rap his opponents, and not give a damn about anyone. These days, he doesn't do anything. He lets the opponents come to him, (which is part of being the Champion, I guess) and when he fights someone, he says the exact same thing everytime. "If you have a problem with me, fight me."

Orton is just a lost cause. As I alluded to, he wrestled pretty well, as a face, (watch his Royal Rumble 2005 match against Triple H; he carried half the match without using a headlock) but as a heel, uses his character and "looks" to get over. I do like his character, but as Cena, he has lost his ability through time. I don't even think he calls himself the "Legend Killer" anymore, unless he's wrestling a 60-year old guy. Along with that, his backstage antics have pushed me past my edge, and if The WWE didn't suspiciously change the suspension rule right before he got caught, he would have been canned on the spot.
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TheObserver

That's it, I'm taking matters into my own hands, I'ma move this to the WWE folder and rename the thread title.
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Ashy Shaq
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The Silver Standard
Nebuchanezzar
Sep 23 2006, 04:51 AM
Ralphy had some problems there, something happened, lots of porn posted here and lots of angryness between the two. We essentially ignored them. It worked out best that way.

There was porn? Damn it! I should have signed up months ago!:cry:
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Sarkar
I'm Done
Nebuchanezzar
Sep 23 2006, 12:51 PM
Ralphy had some problems there, something happened, lots of porn posted here and lots of angryness between the two. We essentially ignored them. It worked out best that way.

I already made peace with the Admin of the board by giving him my old HWF forum.
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yooperchild
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I don't even remember a flame war type thing and while I haven't been here that long, I've been floating around TV.com for awhile.

To me any mark, it doesn't matter who, can ruin a wrestler. I think in order to call yourself a fan of someone you have to be able to acknowledge the fact that someone will have short comings. People who flame everyone that doesn't have the exact opinion as them are just lame.
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rapper150

Cena marks are the most annoying.
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rapper150

Cybrus
Sep 22 2006, 07:59 PM
One forum talking bad about another forum's members. This looks bad on paper. :/

I think all three are annoying. Cena marks are the most annoying simply due to the fact that they make so many threads at tv.com. Just go to the Raw forum and you'll see most of the first page are Cena related threads. Orton fans come in second in the annoyance level, just because they are too quick to put their fingers in their ears and go la-la-la instead of offering a counter-arguments. That Cade fan is annoying, but not on the grand scale that the Orton and Cena marks of tv.com are.

Hey Cybrus, what do you think of Raw marks? I know its not on the list of Cena/Orton marks.
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Sarkar
I'm Done
RAW Marks? What the-?
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4400TVJunkie
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All hail King Booker!
I think it's a bit unfair to assume all the Cena marks are women and young kids. Yeah a majority of them could be but some older guys do like Cena.

There's another forum that I visit frequently and one of the moderators is probably the biggest Cena mark on there. Oh, and he's about 30 and has a son. He totally makes some of the anti-Cena members look like complete idiots because a lot of them just rehash the same old stuff others do. "He can't wrestle. He only has five moves. He's a spotlight hog." Blah blah blah. When he brings up flaws in their arguments, they can't come back with a valid response so they start acting stupid. Anyway, he's actually turned a few haters into fans or neutrals.

So I'll say that the Cena marks that are incapable of putting a complete sentence together or are flamers are the annoying ones. The other Cena marks that are very intelligent, polite, and open to accepting both sides of the argument are the awesome ones.

Really, I find it's the anti-Cena fans that you must watch out for. Some of them are the most immature, idiotic people I've ever run into on a forum. Just my two cents.
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Legacy
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snooooooooop
I may be a Cena mark but I even get annoyed by people saying he is the best. Orton marks are manily girls. Who likes Lance Cade?
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Cybrus
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STAY HYPED!!!
rapper150
Sep 23 2006, 11:03 PM
Hey Cybrus, what do you think of Raw marks? I know its not on the list of Cena/Orton marks.

I think that anyone that argues that one person/brand is nothing but great is annoying. It's alright to be a fan, but everything has its flaws. Raw maybe the flagship show of WWE, but it has several flaws. People that refuse to discuss these flaws while refusing to acknowledge that SD! (or ECW) has any strong points and is nothing more than an "inferior waste of time that is bringing WWE down" annoys me. All three brands have their strong points and all three brands have their weak points.
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rapper150

Thanks, i just wnated to know.
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MY85
It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
4400TVJunkie
Sep 24 2006, 02:48 AM
There's another forum that I visit frequently and one of the moderators is probably the biggest Cena mark on there. Oh, and he's about 30 and has a son. He totally makes some of the anti-Cena members look like complete idiots because a lot of them just rehash the same old stuff others do. "He can't wrestle. He only has five moves. He's a spotlight hog." Blah blah blah. When he brings up flaws in their arguments, they can't come back with a valid response so they start acting stupid. Anyway, he's actually turned a few haters into fans or neutrals.

So I'll say that the Cena marks that are incapable of putting a complete sentence together or are flamers are the annoying ones. The other Cena marks that are very intelligent, polite, and open to accepting both sides of the argument are the awesome ones.

Really, I find it's the anti-Cena fans that you must watch out for. Some of them are the most immature, idiotic people I've ever run into on a forum. Just my two cents.

I think that guy you're talking about is currently trying to convince people that Randy Orton doesn't suck. When I think about that, it's an interesting challenge.

But yesterday on a chat session that I had with some 6SW members (including WWEWhoseLine), we thought that it was nearly impossible to defend Orton (well, it's Orton's fault, lol) against his haters, but defending Cena is a bit easier.

As for anti-Cena fans, those combined with the Cena marks that can't write a sentence gives a disasterous result. I happen to post in a peruvian forum related to wrestling and they really hate the guy's guts to death (typically saying he sucks and he doesn't deserve the main event status plus with or without arguement), to the point where they'll attack him once he steps foot in Peru.
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Cybrus
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STAY HYPED!!!
MakeYourself85
Sep 24 2006, 05:52 PM
I think that guy you're talking about is currently trying to convince people that Randy Orton doesn't suck. When I think about that, it's an interesting challenge.

I read his comments. I thought they were well thought out, but not entirely accurate. I could listen to a guy talk about how Orton is slightly above average, but the guy said Orton is the best in the world at this point. I think that guy would be a great addition to 6SW though. :grin:
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WWEFootos48
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God
MakeYourself85
Sep 24 2006, 05:52 PM
But yesterday on a chat session that I had with some 6SW members (including WWEWhoseLine), we thought that it was nearly impossible to defend Orton (well, it's Orton's fault, lol) against his haters, but defending Cena is a bit easier.

That is exactly true. Long story short, noting the past of both wrestlers, Cena does have talent, while Orton has some. You could say that WWE is single-handedly killing what Cena had, with reducing his moveset, and "Originality" he had with his gimmick, but Orton is holding Orton down. It's fine if his gimmick is that of a "Brash," young, cocky wrestler, but when he doesn't show a lick of respect of the buisness, or its superstars, yet the chairman pushes him as the "Future," you're going to have problems with some people.
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MY85
It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
Cybrus
Sep 24 2006, 05:08 PM
I read his comments. I thought they were well thought out, but not entirely accurate.  I could listen to a guy talk about how Orton is slightly above average, but the guy said Orton is the best in the world at this point.

He had his good points, but I think he killed a part of his whole arguement with the "Orton is the best in the world at this point" part.
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SRP76
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The Man. Any Questions?
Orton is the best in the world? At what?

Even among Orton-lovers, I've never seen anyone go that far.

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_DL_
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BURN IT DOOOWWNNNNNNNN!
Orton is the best at head locks, end of story..
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Cybrus
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STAY HYPED!!!
SRP76
Sep 24 2006, 06:38 PM
Orton is the best in the world? At what?

Even among Orton-lovers, I've never seen anyone go that far.

Instead of linking you, I'll simply copy and paste the relevant post. He didn't actually post this in the thread, someone else is just quoting him. So I gues I'm quoting a quote:

CenaMark54
 
This will probably get moved and I might get some heat for saying this, but Orton is the best overall wrestler in the world right now. Thats right better than HHH, better than HBK, better than Benoit, better than anything in TNA.

Here is why Orton is the best wrestler in the world and it consists of things that I have been saying for a while. The biggest reason I rank him so high is that he does the little things that you do not see in the world of wrestling today. He isn't flashy and the things he does are not noticible to casual fans.

1. Selling
First of all, no one, and I mean noone can deny that he is the best seller in the world. He does his job and that is make the face look great. Whether it is making Hogans god aweful scrapes to the back look great, or the brilliance of selling the ankle lock, Orton makes his opponents look better than they are. His selling of the botched DDT against HHH at the 05 RR was some of the best work you will ever see.

2. Ring Psychology
People will curse his chinlocks all day long. I can hear you now, "he cant wrestle all he does is chinlocks." Well he does do a lot of chinlocks, but he also does a sick backbreaker, an even sicker drop kick, an elevated DDT, flying crossbody, knee drop to the head and neck. These moves all have one thing in common, they focus on the head and neck thus setting up his finisher. Orton is able to tell a story in the ring that most wrestlers today are not intelligent enough to do. Add in his great in ring heel work such as his facial expressions and body language and he is truely brilliant in the ring.

Want an example of  top notch pyshcology, look no further than the 6 man tag last night. Orton not only focused on the head and neck, but also the torso. Why you may ask? Well its because his partners finisher just happened to be a spear.

3. Charisma
He may not have the charisma of a Cena, HHH, or Flair, but his mic work is still above average. He is not over the top, he is extremely natural on the mic. It is not forced or over acting like Cena or the Rock. He talks on the mic much like he would in real life, sort of like the Rock.

Now i'm not saying that Orton is an alltime great yet. But right now he just works better than anyone else in the ring. People will argue that he is not as over as he should be, but that has more to do with booking than anything else. He hasn't won a feud since Foley in 04.


Again, it is well written, but his points are exaggerated, I think. Also, I do not intent any disrespect to the poster by quoting him here. I'm just bringing his points into a similar conversation, which is no different than someone quoting an online editorialist.
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WWEFootos48
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God
Actually, I have a point for everything he wrote:

Quote:
 
First of all, no one, and I mean noone can deny that he is the best seller in the world. He does his job and that is make the face look great. Whether it is making Hogans god aweful scrapes to the back look great, or the brilliance of selling the ankle lock, Orton makes his opponents look better than they are. His selling of the botched DDT against HHH at the 05 RR was some of the best work you will ever see.


Just because we're on the subject on Orton, doesn't mean this type of move is just limited to him. As Neb described in a post about a month ago, guys like Michaels, Triple H, or Flair can all do the same thing. Triple H and Flair are notorious of selling the "Face," making it look like he can win the match, and Michaels plainly sells to make his opponent look superior. Michaels sells the hell out of any move a "Superheavyweight" performs, while he can adapt to even a smaller wrestler, putting them over the same.

Quote:
 

People will curse his chinlocks all day long. I can hear you now, "he cant wrestle all he does is chinlocks." Well he does do a lot of chinlocks, but he also does a sick backbreaker, an even sicker drop kick, an elevated DDT, flying crossbody, knee drop to the head and neck. These moves all have one thing in common, they focus on the head and neck thus setting up his finisher. Orton is able to tell a story in the ring that most wrestlers today are not intelligent enough to do. Add in his great in ring heel work such as his facial expressions and body language and he is truely brilliant in the ring.

Want an example of  top notch pyshcology, look no further than the 6 man tag last night. Orton not only focused on the head and neck, but also the torso. Why you may ask? Well its because his partners finisher just happened to be a spear.


Top notch Psychology? Kurt Angle and Ric Flair got over by working on their opponents' legs, to weaken them, ultimately to slap on their respective holds. Same for Benoit. Again, it's not like Orton is the only one that can do it. Besides, the only reason he knows how to work on the "Head" area, is because he has no moves that work anywhere lower on the body.

Quote:
 
He may not have the charisma of a Cena, HHH, or Flair, but his mic work is still above average. He is not over the top, he is extremely natural on the mic. It is not forced or over acting like Cena or the Rock. He talks on the mic much like he would in real life, sort of like the Rock.


I could give him this one. Yet, unlike The Rock, he becomes very repetitive on the mic. He basically says the same exact thing every time he talks, and when he loses, goes down the heel "Excuse" lane, which has been overplayed since day 1. I do like his gimmick, but it can become boring, which it has.
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SRP76
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The Man. Any Questions?
I believed you, I just hadn't seen someone go that far before. :lol:

After reading that, I will agree; all those points are greatly exaggerated.

But, keeping with the actual topic, I will say that this guy is an example of an "Orton Mark" that does NOT go all non-English, starry-eyed fool when discussing Orton.
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Lionheart
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Heat Lifer
I kinda mellowed out towards Cena during my time away. But then I just choose not to watch his matches.

I find Orton marks the most annoying. While Cena marks tend to piss me off, Cena has charisma, so they at least have something to get behing him with. Orton has zelch, maybe a drop kick, headlock, and over using the word destiny.

I don't know who the Cade fan is so I won't touch that.
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4400TVJunkie
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All hail King Booker!
MakeYourself85
Sep 24 2006, 05:52 PM
4400TVJunkie
Sep 24 2006, 02:48 AM
There's another forum that I visit frequently and one of the moderators is probably the biggest Cena mark on there. Oh, and he's about 30 and has a son. He totally makes some of the anti-Cena members look like complete idiots because a lot of them just rehash the same old stuff others do. "He can't wrestle. He only has five moves. He's a spotlight hog." Blah blah blah. When he brings up flaws in their arguments, they can't come back with a valid response so they start acting stupid. Anyway, he's actually turned a few haters into fans or neutrals.

So I'll say that the Cena marks that are incapable of putting a complete sentence together or are flamers are the annoying ones. The other Cena marks that are very intelligent, polite, and open to accepting both sides of the argument are the awesome ones.

Really, I find it's the anti-Cena fans that you must watch out for. Some of them are the most immature, idiotic people I've ever run into on a forum. Just my two cents.

I think that guy you're talking about is currently trying to convince people that Randy Orton doesn't suck. When I think about that, it's an interesting challenge.

Nope that's definitely not him. They guy I mentioned strongly dislikes Orton and wished he was was fired when he failed that drug test.

So this CenaMark54 is another guy. I knew not to take his Orton argument seriously when he proclaimed Orton as being better than Flair, HBK, Benoit, Angle, etc. I agree he'd be a great addition to 6SW.
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Ashy Shaq
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The Silver Standard
chaingang54
Sep 24 2006, 07:53 AM
I may be a Cena mark but I even get annoyed by people saying he is the best. Orton marks are manily girls. Who likes Lance Cade?

Woah! Woah! Woah! Woah! Woah! Woah! Woah!

There's a Lance Cade mark? I need to back the hell up!
*reads posts*
Oh yeah, that spazzy kind of guy from tv.com. He's annoying as hell! I'm a Big Vis mark (500-pound love machine and my new pickup name, what's not to love?) but I don't go shouting it to the high heavens :angel:
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HHHKingOfKings
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Black Label Society #1
this may sound gay but petar griffen i love you lol your my favotie member on 6Sw lol
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