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Some horrible weather
Topic Started: Jan 17 2007, 10:38 AM (231 Views)
TheObserver

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BUFFALO, Mo. - Shoppers were reduced to picking up supplies by flashlight Tuesday in the few places open in this town of 2,800, as the death toll from a winter storm grew to 51 in nine states.

Three shelters in Buffalo about 35 miles north of Springfield in hard-hit Missouri _ housed nearly a tenth of its population Monday night, and officials said power might not be restored until next week.

The town lost all its power by Saturday. Water towers ran dry Sunday, and water service was restored only late Monday, after the National Guard hooked a generator up to a pumping station.

"There are no services," Buffalo Mayor Jerry Hardesty said. "I've talked to residents who have lived here 50 years, and nobody can remember it ever being this bad."

About 450,000 homes and businesses in several states were still without electricity Tuesday after a storm that brought ice, snow, flooding and high winds to a swath of the country from Texas to Maine.

The storm had largely blown out of New England by Tuesday, but forecasters expected more freezing rain to hit parts of Texas, perhaps even Houston, on Wednesday night, said Dennis Cook of the National Weather Service. Gusty winds were forecast to make the Northeast bone-chilling cold through Wednesday night before warming Thursday.

At the First Baptist Church in McAlester, Okla., where most of the city's 18,000 residents have lacked power for four days, 47 residents huddled under blankets and in front of space heaters.

"If it wasn't for the shelter, I don't know where we'd be," said Tara Guzman, 38, playing board games with her four children. "We're tough; we lasted when the power went out until (Monday). We brought mattresses out in the living room and cuddled."

Subfreezing temperatures were expected to continue in the state, with little sunshine to aid in melting the ice until Thursday or Friday, said National Weather Service meteorologist Kevin Brown.

Some of the 92,000 Oklahoma homes and businesses without power might not have it restored until next week, utility company spokesman said.

"There are a lot of places where virtually everything is destroyed," Public Service Company of Oklahoma spokesman Stan Whiteford said. "In some cases, entire electric services will have to be rebuilt."

Texas Gov. Rick Perry moved his inauguration ceremony indoors for the first time in five decades.

In Missouri, the utility company Ameren said it would probably not have everyone's lights back on until Wednesday night. As of Tuesday, about 210,000 homes and businesses still had no electricity.

The White House said Tuesday that 34 Missouri counties and St. Louis had been declared a major disaster area, making federal funding available. A similar federal disaster declaration was approved Sunday for Oklahoma.

More than 200,000 customers in Michigan also lost power at some point, and tens of thousands were still blacked out Tuesday. Many customers were also without power in central and western New York, Massachusetts and New Hampshire.

Waves of freezing rain, sleet and snow since Friday had been blamed for at least 17 deaths in Oklahoma, nine in Missouri, eight in Iowa, four in New York, five in Texas, three in Michigan, three in Arkansas, and one each in Maine and Indiana.

Elsewhere, Washington state's Puget Sound area, known for drizzle rather than its recent freezing weather, was hit by another round of snow Tuesday, snarling traffic and closing schools for more than 380,000 students. The Oregon Legislature delayed hearings and sessions until afternoon because of the weather.

In California, three nights of freezing weather had destroyed up to three-quarters of the state's $1 billion citrus crop, according to an estimate issued Monday. Other crops, including avocados and strawberries, also suffered damage.

"This is one of those freezes that, unfortunately, we'll all remember," said A.G. Kawamura, secretary of the California Department of Food and Agriculture.
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Nubochanozep
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Does this mean that the heatwave in the US is over?
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BrownMania
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There is no evidence to support a global climate shift, I'll tell you that much :wink:
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Nubochanozep
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I know you mean well Mr. Brownmania, I know you do. I'll use the same crappy picture I drew for everyone else at the NHC that believes that one dastardly cool patch suddenly cancels out every shamble of evidence to support global warming. I also very much doubt that essentially every scientist in the world would support something like this, if there was a lack of evidence for it. :)

Posted Image

x-axis is time, y-axis is temperature. One little downturn in an overall trend doesn't really cancel out anything.
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BrownMania
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lol Last time I checked, "winks" usually hint at sarcasm :wink:

I'm Canadian, few people know as well as I do that there has been a drastic shift in climate. We can't even play hockey outdoors anymore in half of this country. :(
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BrownMania
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On top of that, two days ago the ground was bare and the temperature was about + 3 Celsius. Today, there are about a dozen centimetres of snow on the ground and the temperature is -34 Celsius with the windchill...I'm really looking forward to going to class later :P
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Nubochanozep
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BrownMania
Jan 18 2007, 01:12 AM
lol Last time I checked, "winks" usually hint at sarcasm :wink:

I'm Canadian, few people know as well as I do that there has been a drastic shift in climate. We can't even play hockey outdoors anymore in half of this country. :(

Forgive me then sir. Unfortunately, I've fallen a victim to this poorly indicative smilies on this site many a time. Certain people, let's call them, historically linked members especially, have made a bad habit of overusing these type of things to allude to sarcasm, hatred, bitchiness, "I'm right and you're wrong"-isms many a time. I apologise.
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Cerebral Assassin

BrownMania
Jan 17 2007, 12:04 PM
There is no evidence to support a global climate shift, I'll tell you that much :wink:

I don't agree with that statement. Watch the movie "The Day After Tomorrow" and you'll see some similar things happening these days, minus the floods and the eye of the storm pushing down super cool air. I know that a lot of scientists refuse to believe that the movie is realistic, but time will tell. Luckily for us, if the events of the movie really do happen, it won't be in our lifetime.
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MY85
It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
I was reading the newspaper yesterday and at the rate the world's going, we might get the Ice Age at 2050.
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BrownMania
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Cerebral Assassin
Jan 17 2007, 05:38 PM
BrownMania
Jan 17 2007, 12:04 PM
There is no evidence to support a global climate shift, I'll tell you that much :wink:

I don't agree with that statement. Watch the movie "The Day After Tomorrow" and you'll see some similar things happening these days, minus the floods and the eye of the storm pushing down super cool air. I know that a lot of scientists refuse to believe that the movie is realistic, but time will tell. Luckily for us, if the events of the movie really do happen, it won't be in our lifetime.

I love kids who post in threads before reading everything through....and Neb, you're not forgiven :wink: :P
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Madness420
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Yes all this ice really sucks. People in Oklahoma aren't used to this kind of weather. It usually freezes for a day then it's gone. This is going to last a few weeks. I haven't been able to go to the bar for two weeks!

As far as global warming goes people have been predicting this for the past 100 years and theres still not enough information to accuratley predict this.

We are not killing the planet.
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BrownMania
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While that is very entertaining, it is hardly a good argument against global climate change since they focused not on scientific evidence but the sensationalist assholes who run the so-called environmental groups; groups that are more focused on anti-Globalization and anti-capitalism while using disinformation and scare tactics to convince the naive public to support them.

The scientific evidence is there, it proves that we are killing the planet. We can't gauge the debate by focusing on these leftist pricks who don't even know what they're protesting. I'm as liberal as they come but I imagine fewer people hate my fellow left-wingers as much as I do.
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Cerebral Assassin

Scientists say that over the last 50 years our climate has changed because of what people are doing as far as dumping fresh water into the North Atlantic, which in the long run will affect the planet, but not for a while.
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Madness420
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Quote:
 
While that is very entertaining, it is hardly a good argument against global climate change since they focused not on scientific evidence but the sensationalist assholes who run the so-called environmental groups; groups that are more focused on anti-Globalization and anti-capitalism while using disinformation and scare tactics to convince the naive public to support them.

Did you watch the whole thing?
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TheObserver

Has anyone seen or heard about this movie/documentary.
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BrownMania
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Madness420
Jan 17 2007, 10:41 PM
Quote:
 
While that is very entertaining, it is hardly a good argument against global climate change since they focused not on scientific evidence but the sensationalist assholes who run the so-called environmental groups; groups that are more focused on anti-Globalization and anti-capitalism while using disinformation and scare tactics to convince the naive public to support them.

Did you watch the whole thing?

Yes, I did. Like I said, it was very entertaining but hardly something one should use to defend their argument because it's about as credible as wikipedia.

To -O-, yeah, An Inconvenient Truth was a good watch. Like Penn & Teller's episode of Bullshit it's bias but at least it has the science to defend itself. It's too bad Al Gore never became president because the man is extremely well-read and informed, I mean he "invented" the internet for us for God's sake! :lol:
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Madness420
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The fact of the matter is that with all the scientific research you find that supports global warming you can find just as much that dispels the theory. It totally depends on who does the research and why they are doing the research. This is true in virtually every study.

The earth is millions of years old and the supposed problems that are causing global warming have been around a little over a hundred years. Theres no way we can predict whats going to happen with so little information and it's retarded to argue about it until we know for sure. A comparable situation would be surveying 100 people out of 5 million people and make a decision based on that.
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BrownMania
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Well if we can't know for sure until the shit hits the fan, why not take the initiatives to try and reverse what is thought to be global warming anyway? Oh, right, big business.

It's also rather incorrect to suggest that there is just as much evidence to support the theory that humans have no impact on the climate shift because the scientific consensus is that we are responsible for the shift. If 90% of the scientific community, including essentially every Nobel laureate and any other important scientific mind thinks it is so, it doesn't make sense to continue disputing it.
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Cerebral Assassin

Disputing it won't make the problem go away. Actions will. I'd suggest reading up on what you can do to help out. After all, it's our future family members that will suffer if action isn't taken.
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Nubochanozep
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Madness
 
The fact of the matter is that with all the scientific research you find that supports global warming you can find just as much that dispels the theory.


No, you can't. Unless you have proof of this statement?

Quote:
 
The earth is millions of years old and the supposed problems that are causing global warming have been around a little over a hundred years. Theres no way we can predict whats going to happen with so little information and it's retarded to argue about it until we know for sure. A comparable situation would be surveying 100 people out of 5 million people and make a decision based on that.


I don't get what you're trying to say. Yeah, the problems have only come about in the last 100 years and with that comes a massive correlation in temperature rise amongst a whole host of other symptoms. Trust me, a big deal wouldn't have been made about this by essentially all the worlds scientists backed up by statisticians if it wasn't true, or if it could somehow be disproved by some law guy on the internet.
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Madness420
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No, you can't. Unless you have proof of this statement?
The burden of proof does not fall onto someone to disprove it but rather it falls onto those to actually prove it. Since there is no conclusive evidence that this is happening, statistically it's false. Thats basic science.



Quote:
 
It's also rather incorrect to suggest that there is just as much evidence to support the theory that humans have no impact on the climate shift because the scientific consensus is that we are responsible for the shift. If 90% of the scientific community, including essentially every Nobel laureate and any other important scientific mind thinks it is so, it doesn't make sense to continue disputing it.
See this in itself is totally inaccurate. First of all 90 % of the scientific community does not believe this. Another thing is that we are NOT responsible for the shift. It's a fact that 95% of the greenhouse effect is caused by natural water vapors which means that at the most 5% is caused by carbon minoxide and other human resources.

Since the percent that humans are responsible for is so low the most drastic of changes we make will not really affect anything. Right now there is NO conclusive proof that burning fuels are warming the earth. In fact many believe that this is all still part of a natural recovery period from the last ice age. But like I said before no one knows for sure because there's not enough available data to know for sure because no one was there to study this during the past 3 ice ages.


Quote:
 
Well if we can't know for sure until the shit hits the fan, why not take the initiatives to try and reverse what is thought to be global warming anyway? Oh, right, big business.
Oh but this works both ways. Why in the hell do you think Al Gore made this movie? Because he cares about you and your family? This whole thing is mainly driven by politics. People are trying to get elected and people are trying to make money. The same people who are selling you these gas guzzling SUVs are also selling their Hybrids. They don't give a fuck if everyone is under water a hundred years from now. They're going to do what they can to make money now.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't reduce pollution. I think everyone should drive Hybrids and get rid of their SUVs and the we should find other means of energy because eventually it will be proven huge problem. I don't like breathing in pollution. But it doesn't mean the Earth is melting either. Personally I think it's just another doomsday conspiracy used to control the masses. Especially since religion is starting to lose it's grip on peoples lives and science is growing stronger.

"The trouble with the global warming debate is that it has become a moral crusade when it's really an engineering problem. The inconvenient truth is that if we don't solve the engineering problem, we're helpless."

I just know that it's cold as fuck outside and it's supposed to snow all weekend and it fucking sucks.
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Nubochanozep
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Quote:
 
It's a fact that 95% of the greenhouse effect is caused by natural water vapors which means that at the most 5% is caused by carbon minoxide and other human resources.


What? Where did you hear that? I won't say it's totally untrue and use a laugh smiley yet, but it doesn't sound terribly accurate.

I won't argue against anything else you said, because

a) I'm not an expert on this subject (none of us are)

b) I don't have any facts to support my argument (nor do any of us, really)

All I know is that there's a higher than normal chance that it is all true, and that I personally think everyone in the world should try to curb what could be a threat. I also know that I'll put my faith in the words of 90% (the sheer majority at any rate) of the worlds scientists, rather than the words of two or three people in the minority on the internet who have equally as few facts to support what they're saying as I do.
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