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| A Skeptical Look At Christianity | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 31 2007, 08:13 AM (528 Views) | |
| Cybrus | Jan 31 2007, 08:13 AM Post #1 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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Part 1 Part 2 I post this not as a way to bash Christianity, but it does raise a few good points. Anyone care to refute the points raised in these two videos? Also, while there is nothing wrong with discussing differences in religion, please keep in mind that this can be a sensitive subject. One who is easily offended may not like what may be posted. One should also not try to purposely bash any type of religion or lack of religion. We've had similar threads in the past, so I don't think this will turn into a flame thread, but it's always best to say these things when posting about something as sensitive as religion. |
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| TheObserver | Jan 31 2007, 06:12 PM Post #2 |
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That's just where choice comes into play. We all have the choice to do something with ourselves, this is kinda like the crossroads before dying. But alot of quotes were from powerful people but what they failed to see was the power that God possesses, in order to know that something more powerful exists, they'd have to feel what he can do, why is their so many people that believe in him? Why don't other sorts of people? It's all what you think is right. But you have to want it, God is very loving but is also very ruthless towards those that don't choose to do good nor believe in him or what Jesus has sacrificed. I'm not the best Christian in the world and I have done bad things but so has alot of people, but that's when we can pray and ask for forgiveness. Still we know what's right and what's wrong, it's up to us what we want to do. It's all free will. Of course I'm not here to preach but I think before some make videos or are'nt really sure why they have'nt seen any miracles and be judgemental towards what someone else or something says, they should just talk to people that know more about it than there own theory. The Bible has talked about alot of what's going on in the world today, just not worded like what is being said throughout the news or other reports of some sort. It's all up to you on what you see with your eyes and what you do to help yourself and others along the way, cause in the end we'll be judged one way or another. These are just my thoughts on this matter, they can be either right or wrong depending on who reads this, after all it's just an opinion. |
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| _DL_ | Jan 31 2007, 07:24 PM Post #3 |
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BURN IT DOOOWWNNNNNNNN!
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In all honesty, the lack of dinosaurs in the bible is what first started me to quesiton my religion and the bible. |
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| SRP76 | Jan 31 2007, 07:30 PM Post #4 |
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The Man. Any Questions?
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I didn't watch those links, but I can give my "belief". I don't believe in God, Allah, Buddah, ANY kind of "higher power". I haven't had any experience with most religions; I have read the Bible, however, and that's where a large part of my disbelief stems from. There is too much in that book that is just untrue (like Earth only being about 6000 years old, or the highest point on the planet only being 20 meters above sea level, or even Cain finding "wives" when only he and his two parents existed - where'd these "wives" come from?!). I can't get behind a lot of that stuff. BUT, I don't go out of my way to bash religion, or God, or any of that. If, IF I ever actually found myself in the presence of God, I'd become a believer REAL quick. I wouldn't be the type to continue to disbelieve. I don't see that happening, though. |
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| 15 Shows | Jan 31 2007, 07:52 PM Post #5 |
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Aint cheatin aint tryin
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It doesn't matter what religion who are. Christen, Jewish, Arab, McMahon. It's all made up. It's all just hope for a certain group of people. Something to beleive in for the sake of beleiving in something. In my veiw, Religion is one of the worst things ever created. It doesn't bring people together, it divides them and causes War. Religion and Money are the 2 things that cause War. And well we all love Money. I have no religion. I don't beleive in any God or any of the crap. Whatever happens happens. And I'll guarentee you, it anything we have ever heard of. Death is most likely going to be like a sleep without a dream that lasts forever. Just a body rotting away underground. No bright light and heaven or hell, just black. |
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| TheObserver | Jan 31 2007, 08:12 PM Post #6 |
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Yeah because you felt what it's like to almost die and know what's going to happen afterwards.
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| Lionheart | Jan 31 2007, 08:23 PM Post #7 |
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Heat Lifer
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The fact that we all have the free will to decide what we want to believe in as individuals leads people to turn away from religion. It's not the fact that, "Oh it's just ridiculous nonsense!" No, it's because people like to get quick answers, they want everything to have an exact meaning behind it. It's not enough that we live on earth, we all have to know how exactly earth came to be itself. That's pretty much how evolution started. I'm a person of faith, Christianity, Southern Baptist. I do believe that evolution did play a role in man. Survival of the Fittest is still evident today. But the Theory of Evolving I'm not behind. Who's to say that man didn't start off on earth? Is it anymore nonsense then Men evolving from specs in the ocean? |
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| jackymatic | Jan 31 2007, 09:01 PM Post #8 |
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He died for your sins
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wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong am I being an asshole? or are you for posting those videos? |
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| BrownMania | Jan 31 2007, 10:41 PM Post #9 |
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Religion and faith are not one in the same and that's where the polarity gets drawn too quickly. I am not religious in any way, shape or form, but at the same time, by night I half believe in God. Religion is among the worst things our civilization has conceived but putting one's faith in a higher power certainly doesn't have to be. As the great Liam Gallagher once said, "If a guy suddenly appears before me with a big beard and locks and all that caper and performed some fucking miracle, and then said to me, 'Liam, I am God', I'd say, 'Fair enough, it's a fair cop. I didn't believe in you but fair play, you've got me.' But until that day comes he can fuck right off."
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| Darren | Feb 1 2007, 01:42 AM Post #10 |
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The Best a Man can Get
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Oh Liam not only are you a scamp but you are a visionary.. |
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| Nubochanozep | Feb 1 2007, 03:36 AM Post #11 |
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You can hardly start a thread about religion without people purposely bashing a religion. The minute someone says "religion is full of crap for the following reasons", it's bashing religion. So yeh...
I see, so the sole difference between having God being a vengeful, mean old man to you is whether or not you can ask for forgiveness? That seems a bit odd. It's a bit of a cliched example, but it still works well. The example, is that a murderer can ask for forgiveness on his death bed and get a one way ticket into heaven, and yet a toddler who hasn't learned to speak, or know of religion, who hasn't been baptised or whatever due to their parents decisions gets sent straight to hell for reasons that they couldn't control. Who would chose to lump their faith behind such a retarded model? Who would say, "Gee, that's something I want to be a part of." I wouldn't have such a problem with religion, specifically Christianity if it wasn't a belief filled with lies, contradictions and moronic nuances, but unfortunately for the biblical folk, that's all Christianity is.
Then please, reassure me about the points I raised above. In addition to that, you can answer the age old questions: Why does God let bad things happen? Why did all miracles occur around the same time? What type of brain damaged God has such a retarded plan? How can one believe anything written as heresay by some guy 2000 years ago as absolute fact?
Examples plz.
No, we won't. If I know anything about physics, and I do, it's that it's absolutely impossible for an entity to not exist...but exist. Your soul doesn't exist, it's an entity made up by potheads of 2000 years prior. There's no St. Peter at the Pearly Gates, because there aren't any Pearly Gates. If this so called heaven actually exists, we would have seen it. What's that? It's invisible to us? It's too far away? Man, that's convinient, ain't it?
Yeah, you've got me all worked out. The reason why I don't believe in God is because I'm a lunatic who just wants straight answers, who will go for facts like common sense dictates, instead of jumping to the least possible conclusion. What's that law in crime solving? The law of least probability? 99% of the time, the most likely explanation is the explanation, and seeing as the only thing working in favour of religion (specifically, old testament God related nonsense) is an old, decrepid book of nonsense and a few ministers preaching from that book, I guess that I'm a fool for taking the most likely explanation.
There's no such thing as a "theory of evolving". With that all said, I don't think religion should be abolished. So long as it's firmly planted as the minority with no power in politics or world affairs, then I'm all for it. If people want to believe, let them believe. Despite what Mr. Mania said, which was true, it's also brought a lot of good to the world. Many charitable organisations are founded on religious principles. Should they be stopped? Of course not. What should be stopped, are world leaders going to war against each other over religious principles, countries being started up post WWII based entirely off feeling sorry for a religion, and laws being enacted or prohibited based off what's written in some old looney tunes book. If that were the way the world was run, I'd be very, very happy. |
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| SRP76 | Feb 1 2007, 03:58 AM Post #12 |
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The Man. Any Questions?
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Your precious science can break down just as easily as religion, you know. The singularity at the supposed "Big Bang" defies just as many physical rules as the existence of Heaven. And when you consider the factors of time displacement at high speeds, coupled with the so-called "uncertainty principle" that allows for faster-than-light speed, you find that time would stop for anything travelling around 4c. Now, how is that kind of thing less "unbelievable" than the existence of Heaven? |
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| _DL_ | Feb 1 2007, 04:01 AM Post #13 |
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BURN IT DOOOWWNNNNNNNN!
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No need to get worked up. |
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| Cybrus | Feb 1 2007, 04:08 AM Post #14 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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Why would I be an asshole for posting videos that raise legitimate questions about Christianity? Can you explain what you think is wrong about the videos? |
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| Nubochanozep | Feb 1 2007, 04:12 AM Post #15 |
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You speak as if bring out possibly the least likely theory within the realms of science speaks volumes for science itself. |
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| SRP76 | Feb 1 2007, 04:19 AM Post #16 |
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The Man. Any Questions?
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No, those are just a couple of things I got off the top of my head. There are many more loopholes and ass-coverings in various things. I'm not saying that science is a load of crap or anything, I'm just saying that there are plenty of things that are beyond its ability to just explain away. In some instances, it isn't any less shaky ground than religion. So, we can't just say "religion isn't foolproof, so it isn't accurate", because we'd have to throw away damn near everything else on those grounds, too. |
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| Nubochanozep | Feb 1 2007, 04:37 AM Post #17 |
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Yes we can. Besides, I'd much rather believe a cosmo dude who's spent his whole life looking through telescopes and doing absurdly complex calculations, rather than listening to a man who spends his whole life...reading a 2000 year old book with no evidence behind it. The Big Bang has evidence, religion...well, not so. |
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| SRP76 | Feb 1 2007, 04:41 AM Post #18 |
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The Man. Any Questions?
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You sound like you think there's a difference. The telescope user that can't explain things, or the Bible thumper that can't explain things. Either way, we can't get a definitive answer out of either one of them. |
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| Nubochanozep | Feb 1 2007, 05:41 AM Post #19 |
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Yes, good stuff, but that's not really the point here, is it? It's almost as if you're saying that they both have equal evidence behind them, which isn't totally true, is it? Anyway, this isn't about science, it's about the hooey that goes by the name of religion. Back to it, yo! |
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| SRP76 | Feb 1 2007, 06:11 AM Post #20 |
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The Man. Any Questions?
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Yes, it is the point. Religion is not "hooey" just because you think it is. It may not give a lot of concrete proof of anything, but you (and nobody else, either) can offer up an alternative. Just because you or I don't think there's a God, doesn't mean there isn't one. And, contrary to what you may think, God does NOT have to explain Himself to you, me, or anybody else. He's God. You don't get much more important than that. |
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| Nubochanozep | Feb 1 2007, 08:09 AM Post #21 |
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HOW CONVINIENT! God doesn't explain himself to us because he doesn't have to. Gee, thanks for that lesson SRP. You've just made my cynicism in religion even stronger.
Please point out where I said that there isn't a God. Thankyou. I mean, the closest thing I can see to that is...
And really, it wasn't like I was saying, 'GOD DOESN'T EXIST BUT BIG BANG DOES! kthxbye', was it? Why, no, I didn't say that. What I did say, is that heaven doesn't exist, because, well, it doesn't. You can go on about this "you don't have any evidence to support that", if you wish, but I'll just sit here laughing. If it was true, we'd have seen it. Wait, what's that, we don't have to see it? He doesn't have to explain himself to me? Once again, religion scabs up any old excuse it can muster and then fires it full speed out of the cannon. I'm about to have dinner, so I rushed that last paragraph. Mmmm, KFC. Thanks God. |
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| SRP76 | Feb 1 2007, 03:12 PM Post #22 |
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The Man. Any Questions?
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"If it was true, we'd have seen it". Yeah, right. I guess you have the all-seeing eye, now. There's more in existence than what you can see, you know. I can't believe you'd actually try the ostrich defense. |
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| jackymatic | Feb 1 2007, 08:50 PM Post #23 |
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He died for your sins
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Wait a minute, what form of christianity is this directed toward? Christianity as a whole would include about every sect that there is in christianity. |
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| Madness420 | Feb 1 2007, 10:57 PM Post #24 |
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NOBODY, i repeat NOBODY, has once, EVER put up as much as a credible theory as to how the Big Bang initiated. I.E. Where did all the 'matter' come from? Or hydrogen if thats what it is. Where did it come from? Science suggests 'nothing' basically, but yet havent came EVEN CLOSE to making any sense of this, even by its own standards. Here science fails dramatically, and i would guess it will ALWAYS fall short. That means, the atheism belief of the big bang etc, and no God in existance, carries with it THE BIGGEST ASSUMPTION OF THE LOT. That all this 'matter' somehow came from nothing. I personally believe in evolution, the big bang and God all together [with the big bang theory the most questionable]. I know i cant bring them all together perfectly, nor can anyone, but i would assert they sure arent mutually exclusive. At worst, it could be said God is behind the big bang. For an Atheist to say 'no i dont believe God exists' but yet avoid the glaring question of how the big bang ever came around (ie-where did the matter ever come from?) is ridiculoulsy niavve and ignorant. Altleast Christians try and answer such a question - atheists ignore it!! So the big bang theory itself only provides 1% of the answer, the real question of where it all came from is surely the most fundamental in deciding where everything REALLY came from. Bottom line: For atheists to believe that the 'matter' came from nothing, is a belief that is atleast, and id say far more unfounded, than the belief in God. As this belief goes against just about everything we've ever had proof off - ie. that everything has a creator. Also I’m not stating that all atheists believe in the big bang theory. |
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| SRP76 | Feb 1 2007, 11:15 PM Post #25 |
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The Man. Any Questions?
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That right there (part of it) points out the main factor: Most people want to know "where it came from", whether "it" happens to be a singularity, or Earth itself. Neither religion nor science can answer that question. But here's the thing: who says any of this has to have "come from" or "started" somewhere? This whole "well, the universe had to come from some thing" idea is an unprovable assuption, in itself. It is entirely possible that there IS no "beginning". In the instance of the Big Bang singularity, the matter and energy involved could simply have ALWAYS existed. No "beginning", no "ending", just eternally there. Most people refuse to believe that something could simply NOT have a linear existence, though, and that causes a lot of the debate. |
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| Nubochanozep | Feb 2 2007, 01:05 AM Post #26 |
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Dear me, would we please stop talking about the big bang as if it's the defining point in believing in religion or not. Simply mentioning it in the same sentence is you practically saying "well, this theory of science isn't true, so you can't be an atheist, nyah." No, nobody has said that but it's the general gist that I've picked up here.
Ah, so heaven is just a bunch of stationary electromagnetic waves then?
I've never met an atheist that's turned their back around and said "well, it's true, so go away.", not once. I've met a few christians who've done that, but not any atheists. No-one questions that the big bang theory (or is it a model?) is an outlandish concept, but you're speaking as if it's got absolutely no evidence behind it which is totally untrue. Red shift, the acceleration of distance between galaxies, and the fact that we're observing moments ever closer to the point with telescopes and we're seeing phenomenon that seems to indicate that the big bang is a fairly reliable theory pushes us ever closer to cementing it as the prevalent theory. Saying that there's just as much evidence for the existence of God as there is for the big bang is a little incredulous, don't you think? But as SRP has reminded me, there doesn't have to be any evidence for it, no-one has to see it, and uh, therefore we shouldn't question it. Yeah...right. |
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| Madness420 | Feb 2 2007, 04:30 AM Post #27 |
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Now allow me to quote myself.
Nowhere in the past two posts has the big bang theory been discredited at all. Nowhere in these posts is it mentioned that there is just as much evidence for the existence of God as there is for the big bang theory. Whats in question here is the origin of the matter that existed before the big bang. Wow! Thats 3 different points you've totally ignored and tried to spin because you have no answer for it! |
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| Nubochanozep | Feb 2 2007, 05:18 AM Post #28 |
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I think it's a bit silly to expect the Big Bang theory to be consistently questioned by all, in a religion thread of all things. Clearly, the intention of the thread wasn't to talk about the Big Bang prior to SRP changing the mood for whatever reason. So you know, a bit of common sense wouldn't go astray, sir. But, um, if you had have read through the topic, you would have surely noticed this...
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Yes, indeed, someone did speak as if there was more evidence for God and such, compared to the Big Bang, and that someone was you. Allow me to fetch those quotes...
I'm sure that I'm not the only one who will enjoy your explanation as to how you came to such conclusions.
And that's the major flaw in the theory, is it not? Am I not correct in saying that no-one has an answer for it? That any answer is just a theory, much like the rest of it, much like God itself? Please consolidate your ideas into a coherent little package so that I can at least gather up whatever it is you're saying and offer a thought. So far, it looks as if you're saying that you do accept the possibility of the big bang, and yet you're replying as if I think it's a completely foolproof idea. Of course, one only has to look at my first reply to all this Big Bang stuff to see that I was questioning it immediately...
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| J.J.S. | Feb 2 2007, 05:41 AM Post #29 |
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When the religion thread is called "A Skeptical Look At Christianity" and it features links to videos that discredit God's existence then why wouldn't counterpoints to such an argument be brought up? The Big Bang theory and the theory of evolution are sometimes cited as reasons as to why God couldn't exist. I would find it strange to see a topic about religion where scientific theories weren't referenced and even questioned at some point. Sometimes I think that atheists take the Bible more literally than Christians do. I've gone to religious education my entire life and I have never been taught that the stories within the Bible are true. They have always stressed that the stories were meant to send a message. The priest at my grandparents' church went so far as to say that the story of Jesus' birth isn't accurate in the slightest. If a star was shining bright in the sky then why did only the three wise men see and follow it? If one of the wise men gave Jesus gold, then why wasn't his family rich? And I'm not saying that some religious people don't take its teachings literally because otherwise we wouldn't have morons blowing each other up. |
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| Nubochanozep | Feb 2 2007, 05:52 AM Post #30 |
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If I were talking in a thread about HBK's wrestling skill, would I expect that the Undertaker's comparatively lesser skill be brought up at every turn? That's the point I was getting at. |
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8:40 AM Jul 11