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Jimmy C's signature
Topic Started: Aug 19 2007, 03:19 AM (343 Views)
jackymatic
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He died for your sins
Jimmy C
Aug 18 2007, 10:11 PM
I'll go as far to say that the Bible is a great book, and it has a tonne of worthwhile, strongly moraled principles in it. Religion can be a great thing, but when imbeciles like Jackymatic interpret the book to justify a massive evil, when it would be a helluva lot more decent to simply allow something like abortion taking place, then my intolerance for religious douchebags comes to the top. I don't hate religion. I do not hate Christianity, and for all I know it exists. What I do know, is that crackpot, asshole, faggothead douchebag clowns like jackymatic justify expired, douchebagish opinions like this anti-abortion bullshit, and hence their opinions do not matter.

Do not argue with jackymatic. He is a fool.

Quote:
 
I'll go as far to say that the Bible is a great book, and it has a tonne of worthwhile, strongly moraled principles in it.


*gasp*
I'm getting through to Jimmy!?!?

Quote:
 
, but when imbeciles like Jackymatic interpret the book to justify a massive evil, when it would be a helluva lot more decent to simply allow something like abortion taking place, then my intolerance for religious douchebags comes to the top.

mmm.. I guess not.... Basically you're mad at me because you're more liberal and I'm more conservative. That's the root of the problem. So I guess you'd be considered an anti-conservative, independent "religious believer". Whatever, I don't really care for your non-sense

Do not argue with Jimmy C, he is a left sided liberal thinker. He is a fool.

Quote:
 

No. Not opinion. Fact.

The word they interpreted to as "virgin" was "aalmah" which actually means something along the lines of "young woman" or "young girl". It does not mean that the woman/girl has never had sex, just that she was young.


quote from wikipedia
 
The Gospel of Matthew describes Mary as a virgin who fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah 7:14. The Hebrew word almah that appears in this verse, and the Greek word parthenos that Jews used to translate it in the Greek Septuagint that Matthew quotes here, have been the subjects of dispute for almost two millennia. This disagreement is related to the question of whether Isaiah 7:14 is a prophecy of Jesus' birth. Regardless of the meaning of this verse, it is clear that the authors of the Gospels of Matthew and Luke consider Jesus' conception not the result of intercourse and assert that Mary had "no relations with man" before Jesus' birth.

Yup, I agree with the bold part

Quote:
 
If they got that wrong, which is literally the beginning of Jesus' life, then what else did they get wrong? Perhaps the rules, names, and places you think are the truth were also misinterpreted?

Again, it's not fact. It's your interpretation/ belief on the subject
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15 Shows
Aint cheatin aint tryin
jackymatic
Aug 18 2007, 11:25 PM

Quote:
 
I'll go as far to say that the Bible is a great book, and it has a tonne of worthwhile, strongly moraled principles in it.


*gasp*
I'm getting through to Jimmy!?!?


Your literally retarded.
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jackymatic
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He died for your sins
Jimmy 15
Aug 18 2007, 10:28 PM
jackymatic
Aug 18 2007, 11:25 PM

Quote:
 
I'll go as far to say that the Bible is a great book, and it has a tonne of worthwhile, strongly moraled principles in it.


*gasp*
I'm getting through to Jimmy!?!?


Your literally retarded.

Don't you mean "You're"

and no.
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Kraul

jackymatic
Aug 18 2007, 11:25 PM
Quote:
 

No. Not opinion. Fact.

The word they interpreted to as "virgin" was "aalmah" which actually means something along the lines of "young woman" or "young girl". It does not mean that the woman/girl has never had sex, just that she was young.


quote from wikipedia
 
The Gospel of Matthew describes Mary as a virgin who fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah 7:14. The Hebrew word almah that appears in this verse, and the Greek word parthenos that Jews used to translate it in the Greek Septuagint that Matthew quotes here, have been the subjects of dispute for almost two millennia. This disagreement is related to the question of whether Isaiah 7:14 is a prophecy of Jesus' birth. Regardless of the meaning of this verse, it is clear that the authors of the Gospels of Matthew and Luke consider Jesus' conception not the result of intercourse and assert that Mary had "no relations with man" before Jesus' birth.

Yup, I agree with the bold part

I wasn't disputing whether or not she actually screwed to create the baby Heyzeus. I was saying that the words they translated from were translated incorrectly.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
If they got that wrong, which is literally the beginning of Jesus' life, then what else did they get wrong? Perhaps the rules, names, and places you think are the truth were also misinterpreted?

Again, it's not fact. It's your interpretation/ belief on the subject


IT IS A FACT, YOU DUMB FUCK!

I'm not making up the word "aalmah" or it's meaning. Look it up yourself and not from some site that is desperately trying to twist facts to try and support the religious texts that are proven inferior and incorrect time and time again.

It's my opinion that your religion is worshipping non-existant entities and fearing or wishing for non-existant places, but it is a fact that the word "aalmah" was not meant to mean that Mary hadn't yet tasted the cock.

I'm done for the night with this. Maybe I'll drop into it again tomorrow to further e-slap you.
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Purple Marauder
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Stand Back! There's a Hurricane Coming Through
Look!! Here is this fight in real life!!

CLICK
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jackymatic
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He died for your sins
Quote:
 
Almah ("עלמה") or plural: alamot ("עלמות") is a Hebrew feminine noun, for a girl who has reached puberty but is still under the shielding protection of her family; she is a young, marriageable (i.e. unmarried) girl. In Bibles, almah is typically translated as virgin, maiden, young woman, damsel or girl.


Quote:
 
The meaning of almah is most often determined by referring to its uses in the Bible. Unfortunately, there are only nine passages that use this term (and only two more use the masculine form elem). This results in a very small number of examples from which we may extract a definition. This small number is further reduced because only a few of these verses contain clear and unambiguous meanings. These few instances do not necessarily clarify the meaning of almah in the remaining passages. The problem is further compounded when one considers that these various texts were recorded by different authors living centuries apart. Languages tend to evolve over time and ancient Hebrew was no different.


Quote:
 
From the earliest days of Christianity, Jewish critics have argued that Christians were mistaken in their reading of almah in Isaiah 7:14.[17] Because the author of Matthew 1:23, believed that Jesus was born of a virgin, he quoted Isaiah: "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son" as a proof-text for the divine origin of Jesus. Jewish scholars declare that Matthew is in error, that the word almah means young woman (just as the male equivalent elem means young man). It does not denote a virgin or sexual purity but age. Because a different Hebrew word, bethulah ("בתולה"), is most commonly used for virgin even in modern Hebrew, the prophet could not have meant virgin in Isaiah 7:14.

Many Christian apologists respond that throughout the Old Testament, in every other instance where a girl is described as almah, she is a girl who has never known a man carnally or had intercourse. Moreover, the word bethulah is sometimes used to describe women who are arguably not virgins (Joel 1.8 and Esther 2:8-17), and in at least two cases (Genesis 24: 16 and Judges 21: 12), an additional phrase in the text explains that that the bethulah has "not known a man." Thus, they argue, almah refers to virgins more consistently than does bethulah. Most importantly, the Jewish scholars who translated and compiled the Hebrew scriptures (the Torah first and then later the Prophets and the Writings) into a Greek version of the Old Testament, translated almah in Isaiah 7:14 as parthenos, which almost always[18] means "virgin". Since these Jewish scholars were well acquainted with the meaning of the old Hebrew words as well as the Greek, their interpretation (developed hundreds of years before Jesus) should be given special weight.

Some scholars contend that debates over the precise meaning of bethulah and almah are misguided because no Hebrew word encapsulates the idea of certain virginity. [19] Martin Luther also argued that the debate was irrelevant, not because the words do not clearly mean virgin, but because almah and bethulah were functional synonyms
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Nubochanozep
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Quote:
 
*gasp*
I'm getting through to Jimmy!?!?


No, I've always maintained that the Bible can be kinda decent. There's a lot of horse manure in it though, and as it happens, the horse manure is the stuff that happens to be most applicable to modern life.

Quote:
 
mmm.. I guess not.... Basically you're mad at me because you're more liberal and I'm more conservative.


Yes, that must be the root of all my problems with you. It has nothing to do with your illogic assertions about everything and anything. It has nothing to do with your inability to string together a cogent argument. It has nothing to do with your constant belief that what you say is right, no matter how many pages of evidence are mounted against your ill beliefs. It has nothing to do with your self-centered beliefs about everyone else. It has nothing to do with the way that you think the most minor slip up on someone's part is somehow "Pwning" them. It has nothing to do with your intelligence, which can best be described as being on par with a semi-retarded, boob-feeding, nappy soiling, crying, whinging, complaining, infantile, immature, self-loathing, bible-bashing, insensitive, morally corrupt, intelligence-bankrupt idiot. Nope, it's none of that. Fact of the matter is that I hate myself because I generalise myself into these whimsically cliched political groups that hold no meaning to anyone but yourself and retarded hicks like Bill O'Reilly or (for the Australians) Piers Akerman. That's the reason. That's the root of the problem. I'm an idiot, and you're the most bloody fantastic, reasonable person the world has ever seen.

And your definitions, so far as I can see, prove nothing worthwhile. Even if Kraul has mistaken the meaning of whatever it is you're moaning and droning on about, your beliefs about abortion (which was the main disagreement, long long ago) are still as stupid as they ever were. Give it up.
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L69
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I admit, I just lol'ed there.

Rather funny Stuff.
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Kraul

Jimmy C
Aug 19 2007, 01:49 AM
Even if Kraul has mistaken the meaning of whatever it is you're moaning and droning on about...

Which I haven't, by the way. Jacky went ahead and posted quotes that basically just said what I said in that the word "virgin" is not supposed to be taken literal as in Mary being a legit virgin (never had sex).

I'm not really sure what he was trying to prove with those quotes.
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jackymatic
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He died for your sins
Kraul
Aug 19 2007, 10:56 AM
Jimmy C
Aug 19 2007, 01:49 AM
Even if Kraul has mistaken the meaning of whatever it is you're moaning and droning on about...

Which I haven't, by the way. Jacky went ahead and posted quotes that basically just said what I said in that the word "virgin" is not supposed to be taken literal as in Mary being a legit virgin (never had sex).

I'm not really sure what he was trying to prove with those quotes.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!!?

The quotes said that languages obviously aren't the same but the people translated the meanings of the words as close as they could.

"In Bibles, almah is typically translated as virgin, maiden, young woman, damsel or girl."

These words were substitutes of VIRGIN.

"Regardless of the meaning of this verse, it is clear that the authors of the Gospels of Matthew and Luke consider Jesus' conception not the result of intercourse and assert that Mary had "no relations with man" before Jesus' birth."
So Mary Was a virgin.
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Nubochanozep
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Quote:
 
The quotes said that languages obviously aren't the same but the people translated the meanings of the words as close as they could.


You just conceded that the translations may be inaccurate.

Quote:
 
"In Bibles, almah is typically translated as virgin, maiden, young woman, damsel or girl."

These words were substitutes of VIRGIN.


virgin means virgin
maiden does not always mean virgin
young woman does not always mean virgin
damsel does not always mean virgin
girl does not always mean virgin

Quote:
 
"Regardless of the meaning of this verse, it is clear that the authors of the Gospels of Matthew and Luke consider Jesus' conception not the result of intercourse and assert that Mary had "no relations with man" before Jesus' birth."
So Mary Was a virgin.


I fail to see how that quote backs up the idea that Mary was a virgin, considering that the quote supplies no evidence for it.
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jackymatic
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He died for your sins
Jimmy C
Aug 19 2007, 10:23 PM
Quote:
 
The quotes said that languages obviously aren't the same but the people translated the meanings of the words as close as they could.


You just conceded that the translations may be inaccurate.

Quote:
 
"In Bibles, almah is typically translated as virgin, maiden, young woman, damsel or girl."

These words were substitutes of VIRGIN.


virgin means virgin
maiden does not always mean virgin
young woman does not always mean virgin
damsel does not always mean virgin
girl does not always mean virgin

Quote:
 
"Regardless of the meaning of this verse, it is clear that the authors of the Gospels of Matthew and Luke consider Jesus' conception not the result of intercourse and assert that Mary had "no relations with man" before Jesus' birth."
So Mary Was a virgin.


I fail to see how that quote backs up the idea that Mary was a virgin, considering that the quote supplies no evidence for it.

Quote:
 
virgin means virgin
maiden does not always mean virgin
young woman does not always mean virgin
damsel does not always mean virgin
girl does not always mean virgin

Well obviously in different languages they do!
The languages have changed over time so all these words were the closest thing to virgin.
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Nubochanozep
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And that's the point, isn't it? The translations, considering that the languages being compared are incpompatible with one another, are liable to all kinds of faults.
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jackymatic
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He died for your sins
Jimmy C
Aug 20 2007, 12:03 AM
And that's the point, isn't it? The translations, considering that the languages being compared are incpompatible with one another, are liable to all kinds of faults.

Oh Come on... it's not like they accidentally wrote Joseph when they meant John or something like that

Give me a damn break.
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Nubochanozep
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Yeah...cept we're not talking about mistranslating John to Joseph, are we?
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jackymatic
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He died for your sins
Jimmy C
Aug 20 2007, 12:11 AM
Yeah...cept we're not talking about mistranslating John to Joseph, are we?

lol well Kraul said that there might be other mis-translated things....

ugh w.e.
it's 12:26 and I need to sleep
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Nubochanozep
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Yes, I think he was referring to common words. An example: The translation of the word "divine", that could lead to interpreters seeing it as meaning virginal, powerful, clean, Godly, intelligent, interfering etc etc etc.
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