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Election Poll
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Topic Started: Jan 7 2008, 09:19 PM (620 Views)
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Jesus Omega
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Jan 14 2008, 03:19 AM
Post #31
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Ok, you guys may know wrestling, but none of you know jack about politics (especially TOAL).
First things first, TOAL, you mentioned that if Hilary won teh election, our economy would be worse than England's or Canada's. Well, guess what? It already is. The Engliish Pound is worth almost twice as much as the American Dollar, and the Canadian dollar is roughly equal. Ever since the Euro came out, the only real economy we're stronger than is Australia's. And that's just sad.
As for the argument of Hilary knowing what's up, Hilary Clinton is full of shit. Seriously. She contradicts herself, sometimes in teh same sentence, and I firmly believe that she'd disgrace America's already tarnished name by becoming president. Seriously. Bill literally did nothing while he was in office. Hilary, on the other hand, would. And that's a bad thing. I'd rather give Bush a third term than give Hilary one.
Speaking of Bill Clinton, Cybrus, he didn't do anything for the economy. I know, we had a great economy when he was in office, but that's because of a little thing called the business cycle. There's pretty much nothing that a president can do to damage/fix an economic system without a complete overhaul (which didn't happen when Clinton was in office, mind you). We just had a good economy because that was teh part of the business cycle, we're in a recession as of now., It'll change soon enough.
On a side note, it completely offends me that this poll is called an "Election Poll" when only Democratic candidates are available as option. Don't get me wrong, I'm in the middle of the political scale, but this year, the only people who are full of shit are red.
But back to the issue. The point is, Hilary is retarded. Obama, on teh other hand, is nowhere near qualified to do presidential duties, even though the best way to do teh aforementioned duties is by doing nothing. That's right, Omaba actually ISN'T qualified to do nothing. How strange.
And to clear up the issue that the President actually has teh power to change things (ie, health care, gas prices, etc.) the fact is, they don't. This country isn't run by politicians. Nor is it run by the people. It's run by corporate lobbyists, and the people willing to fork over the most dough to the re-election fund of whatever congressmen/president/whatever happens to be in office at the time gets what they want. And that's a fact. No president can change that alone. What we need is 525 senate/legislature members who don't care about money, and re-election (as if) and one president who feels the same, and maybe we'll make some progress in such fields, but until then, expect politics to be nothing but empty promises and complete bullshit.
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Nubochanozep
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Jan 14 2008, 03:29 AM
Post #32
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Oh this is going to be fun.
- Eric Omega
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First things first, TOAL, you mentioned that if Hilary won teh election, our economy would be worse than England's or Canada's. Well, guess what? It already is. The Engliish Pound is worth almost twice as much as the American Dollar, and the Canadian dollar is roughly equal. Ever since the Euro came out, the only real economy we're stronger than is Australia's. And that's just sad.
The value of the dollar is not a measure of the strength of an economy. Proof: Um, China, Japan? lol.
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As for the argument of Hilary knowing what's up, Hilary Clinton is full of shit. Seriously. She contradicts herself, sometimes in teh same sentence, and I firmly believe that she'd disgrace America's already tarnished name by becoming president. Seriously. Bill literally did nothing while he was in office. Hilary, on the other hand, would. And that's a bad thing. I'd rather give Bush a third term than give Hilary one.
You'd support giving the worst president in history office again, instead of one that does "nothing" (although Cybrus's post indicates otherwise, heh). And every politician contradicts themselves sometimes, just like anyone else. It's unrealistic to expect or think otherwise.
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Speaking of Bill Clinton, Cybrus, he didn't do anything for the economy. I know, we had a great economy when he was in office, but that's because of a little thing called the business cycle. There's pretty much nothing that a president can do to damage/fix an economic system without a complete overhaul (which didn't happen when Clinton was in office, mind you). We just had a good economy because that was teh part of the business cycle, we're in a recession as of now., It'll change soon enough.
I think you meant economic cycle. lol. And yeah, that has a massive bearing on things, but it's not the only indicator of a good economy, is it? Surely unemployment rates, and being able to spend at the same time as cutting back are also measures? Value of the stock market is also important, as are interest rates blah blah blah.
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And to clear up the issue that the President actually has teh power to change things (ie, health care, gas prices, etc.) the fact is, they don't. This country isn't run by politicians. Nor is it run by the people. It's run by corporate lobbyists, and the people willing to fork over the most dough to the re-election fund of whatever congressmen/president/whatever happens to be in office at the time gets what they want. And that's a fact. No president can change that alone. What we need is 525 senate/legislature members who don't care about money, and re-election (as if) and one president who feels the same, and maybe we'll make some progress in such fields, but until then, expect politics to be nothing but empty promises and complete bullshit.
I'd agree with that, although not on such an extreme scale.
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Jesus Omega
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Jan 14 2008, 03:42 AM
Post #33
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- Jimmy C
- Jan 14 2008, 03:29 AM
Oh this is going to be fun. - Eric Omega
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First things first, TOAL, you mentioned that if Hilary won teh election, our economy would be worse than England's or Canada's. Well, guess what? It already is. The Engliish Pound is worth almost twice as much as the American Dollar, and the Canadian dollar is roughly equal. Ever since the Euro came out, the only real economy we're stronger than is Australia's. And that's just sad.
The value of the dollar is not a measure of the strength of an economy. Proof: Um, China, Japan? lol. - Quote:
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As for the argument of Hilary knowing what's up, Hilary Clinton is full of shit. Seriously. She contradicts herself, sometimes in teh same sentence, and I firmly believe that she'd disgrace America's already tarnished name by becoming president. Seriously. Bill literally did nothing while he was in office. Hilary, on the other hand, would. And that's a bad thing. I'd rather give Bush a third term than give Hilary one.
You'd support giving the worst president in history office again, instead of one that does "nothing" (although Cybrus's post indicates otherwise, heh). And every politician contradicts themselves sometimes, just like anyone else. It's unrealistic to expect or think otherwise. - Quote:
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Speaking of Bill Clinton, Cybrus, he didn't do anything for the economy. I know, we had a great economy when he was in office, but that's because of a little thing called the business cycle. There's pretty much nothing that a president can do to damage/fix an economic system without a complete overhaul (which didn't happen when Clinton was in office, mind you). We just had a good economy because that was teh part of the business cycle, we're in a recession as of now., It'll change soon enough.
I think you meant economic cycle. lol. And yeah, that has a massive bearing on things, but it's not the only indicator of a good economy, is it? Surely unemployment rates, and being able to spend at the same time as cutting back are also measures? Value of the stock market is also important, as are interest rates blah blah blah. - Quote:
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And to clear up the issue that the President actually has teh power to change things (ie, health care, gas prices, etc.) the fact is, they don't. This country isn't run by politicians. Nor is it run by the people. It's run by corporate lobbyists, and the people willing to fork over the most dough to the re-election fund of whatever congressmen/president/whatever happens to be in office at the time gets what they want. And that's a fact. No president can change that alone. What we need is 525 senate/legislature members who don't care about money, and re-election (as if) and one president who feels the same, and maybe we'll make some progress in such fields, but until then, expect politics to be nothing but empty promises and complete bullshit.
I'd agree with that, although not on such an extreme scale.
Despite the fact that dollar value isn't the only indication of economic strength, it's a very key indication.
Explain to me, how was Bush the worst President in history? Other than terrible speaking skills, what did Bush (and only Bush) do that was so bad? The answer: Absolutely nothing. Literally EVERYTHING he did was approved by congress. However, Bill really didn't do anything. The economy was good, but it wasn't because of anythnig spectacular that he's done.
Yes, I did mean economic cycle, but the Business cycle is basically a smaller version of the economic cycle, so sue me. However, unemployment rates, stock market rates, spending, etc. are all part of the Economic cycle. The only thing you mentioned that isn't is interest rate. However, the Fed can change interest rate at will. They can make 90% interest rate if they'd like. Of course, then it'd be a bitch to get a loan. Point is, the interest rate isn't an indication towards the economic standing because, quite frankly, it's a strategic tool that is used to keep the Banks in check.
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JD Storm
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Jan 14 2008, 04:31 AM
Post #34
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- Jimmy C
- Jan 13 2008, 09:28 PM
great, so you need cheap shots at me to make your point. why am i not surprised?
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Nubochanozep
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Jan 14 2008, 04:38 AM
Post #35
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Actually, I just couldn't be bothered copying and pasting, and editing your post. but good try.
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Cybrus
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Jan 14 2008, 04:44 AM
Post #36
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STAY HYPED!!!
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- Eric Omega
- Jan 13 2008, 10:19 PM
Bill literally did nothing while he was in office.
:down:
:down:
:down:
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15 million working families enjoyed tax relief under President Clinton's expanded Earned Income Tax Credit. Thanks to Clinton, the EITC lifted 4.3 million people out of poverty in 1998 alone.
1.5 million children benefited when Clinton more than doubled federal funding for child care.
President Clinton signed a bad "welfare reform" bill in 1996, but Clinton vetoed a worse bill twice, winning concessions each time including - increased child care funding (by $4 billion), worker retraining, extensions for benefits, exceptions for "hard cases" and more.
Clinton increased funding for the Head Start program by 90 percent in FY 2000 so 880,000 children had a better chance to learn and grow.
Clinton forced the minimum wage up from $4.25 to $5.15 per hour and demanded an increase to $6.15.
Clinton's Workforce Investment Act reformed the nation's employment and training system.
Clinton's AmeriCorps gave 150,000 young people the opportunity to serve in their communities while earning money for college or skills training.
President Clinton's One America initiatives challenged us to respect others' differences and embrace the common values that unite us. "[T]o close the opportunity gaps that exist for minorities and the underserved in this country."
The poverty rate fell from 15.1 percent in 1993 to 12.7 percent in 1998. That's the lowest poverty rate since 1979 and the largest five-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years (1965-1970).
The African-American poverty rate dropped from 33.1 percent in 1993 to 26.1 percent in 1998 -- the lowest level ever recorded and the largest five-year drop in African-American poverty in more than a quarter century (1967-1972).
The poverty rate for Hispanics fell to the lowest level since 1979, and dropped to 25.6 percent in 1998.
African-American unemployment fell from 14.2 percent in 1992 to 7.3 percent in March 2000 -- the lowest rate on record.
The unemployment rate for Hispanics fell from 11.6 percent in 1992 to 6.3 percent in March 2000 -- and in the last year has been at the lowest rate on record.
For women the unemployment rate was 4.3 percent in March 2000, nearly the lowest since 1953 [when few women sought employment outside the home].
In 1999, the homeownership rate was 66.8 percent -- the highest ever recorded. Minority homeownership rates were also the highest ever recorded.
Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore, child poverty declined from 22.7 percent in 1993 to 18.9 percent in 1998 -- the biggest five-year drop in nearly 30 years.
The poverty rate for African-American children fell from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 36.7 percent in 1998 -- the lowest level in 20 years and the biggest five-year drop on record.
The rate also fell for Hispanic children, from 36.8 percent to 34.4 percent - and is now 6.5 percentage points lower than it was in 1993.
As DNC Chair, Howard Dean can build on these Clinton accomplishments, many achieved over strong right wing opposition in Congress. If Dean can help get just a few more real Democrats in the House and Senate, we can do even better.
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Speaking of Bill Clinton, Cybrus, he didn't do anything for the economy.
Yeah, you're right. I'm sure that it was just a mere coincidence that will Bill was in office the U.S. had one of the best economy ever, wages went up, unemployment went down, housing went up, poverty went down. Stock market up, crime rates down. And I bet it is even a bigger coincidence that all these improvements magically went away when Bush went into office (or even when the other Bush was in office before Clinton), huh?
While Clinton was in office, over 22 millions jobs were created. I'm sure that did nothing for the economy did it? All those people with money to spend, putting more money into circulation, yeah, I'm sure that did nothing for the U.S. economy. Nothing at all!
Now, you can criticize Clinton for being too lenient when it comes to National Defense, since he really didn't do anything to strengthen National Defense at all. But to say Bill did nothing as President is just foolish and rubbish. Clinton will be remembered as one of the greatest U.S. Presidents of our times and possibly one of the top of all times. Especially when you compare him to the two Bushes that came before and after him.
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On a side note, it completely offends me that this poll is called an "Election Poll" when only Democratic candidates are available as option.
The poll question is clearly asking whom we'd prefer to be the democratic leader going into the Presidential U.S. election this autumn. If you'd like to see a conversation about republicans (even if it's just for the sake of fairness), then you are free to start another thread.
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TheObserver
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Jan 14 2008, 06:30 AM
Post #37
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I'm on the fence somewhat for this since it's a pretty big deal in terms of maybe having the first women president or a black one.
The irony of this is that me and my co-workers and even friends would discuss who would be the first to be that one. This was years ago and no one I don't think would've thought it would've came down to something like this.
Now all of you (or most) know I don't know really anything political wise but I still give my 2 cents every now and then, even if it's not that great.
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Nubochanozep
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Jan 14 2008, 06:30 AM
Post #38
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- Cybrus
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Now, you can criticize Clinton for being too lenient when it comes to National Defense, since he really didn't do anything to strengthen National Defense at all.
To be fair, there wasn't a whole lot he had to do while he was in office though in regards to defense. What there was to do (ie: investigate real threats from Al Qaeda), he did, as is my understanding. The slack was not picked up by Bush however, and well, you know how that story ends.
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Jesus Omega
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Jan 14 2008, 08:20 PM
Post #39
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- Cybrus
- Jan 14 2008, 04:44 AM
- Eric Omega
- Jan 13 2008, 10:19 PM
Bill literally did nothing while he was in office. :down:
:down:
:down:- Quote:
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15 million working families enjoyed tax relief under President Clinton's expanded Earned Income Tax Credit. Thanks to Clinton, the EITC lifted 4.3 million people out of poverty in 1998 alone.
1.5 million children benefited when Clinton more than doubled federal funding for child care.
President Clinton signed a bad "welfare reform" bill in 1996, but Clinton vetoed a worse bill twice, winning concessions each time including - increased child care funding (by $4 billion), worker retraining, extensions for benefits, exceptions for "hard cases" and more.
Clinton increased funding for the Head Start program by 90 percent in FY 2000 so 880,000 children had a better chance to learn and grow.
Clinton forced the minimum wage up from $4.25 to $5.15 per hour and demanded an increase to $6.15.
Clinton's Workforce Investment Act reformed the nation's employment and training system.
Clinton's AmeriCorps gave 150,000 young people the opportunity to serve in their communities while earning money for college or skills training.
President Clinton's One America initiatives challenged us to respect others' differences and embrace the common values that unite us. "[T]o close the opportunity gaps that exist for minorities and the underserved in this country."
The poverty rate fell from 15.1 percent in 1993 to 12.7 percent in 1998. That's the lowest poverty rate since 1979 and the largest five-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years (1965-1970).
The African-American poverty rate dropped from 33.1 percent in 1993 to 26.1 percent in 1998 -- the lowest level ever recorded and the largest five-year drop in African-American poverty in more than a quarter century (1967-1972).
The poverty rate for Hispanics fell to the lowest level since 1979, and dropped to 25.6 percent in 1998.
African-American unemployment fell from 14.2 percent in 1992 to 7.3 percent in March 2000 -- the lowest rate on record.
The unemployment rate for Hispanics fell from 11.6 percent in 1992 to 6.3 percent in March 2000 -- and in the last year has been at the lowest rate on record.
For women the unemployment rate was 4.3 percent in March 2000, nearly the lowest since 1953 [when few women sought employment outside the home].
In 1999, the homeownership rate was 66.8 percent -- the highest ever recorded. Minority homeownership rates were also the highest ever recorded.
Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore, child poverty declined from 22.7 percent in 1993 to 18.9 percent in 1998 -- the biggest five-year drop in nearly 30 years.
The poverty rate for African-American children fell from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 36.7 percent in 1998 -- the lowest level in 20 years and the biggest five-year drop on record.
The rate also fell for Hispanic children, from 36.8 percent to 34.4 percent - and is now 6.5 percentage points lower than it was in 1993.
As DNC Chair, Howard Dean can build on these Clinton accomplishments, many achieved over strong right wing opposition in Congress. If Dean can help get just a few more real Democrats in the House and Senate, we can do even better.
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Speaking of Bill Clinton, Cybrus, he didn't do anything for the economy.
Yeah, you're right. I'm sure that it was just a mere coincidence that will Bill was in office the U.S. had one of the best economy ever, wages went up, unemployment went down, housing went up, poverty went down. Stock market up, crime rates down. And I bet it is even a bigger coincidence that all these improvements magically went away when Bush went into office (or even when the other Bush was in office before Clinton), huh? While Clinton was in office, over 22 millions jobs were created. I'm sure that did nothing for the economy did it? All those people with money to spend, putting more money into circulation, yeah, I'm sure that did nothing for the U.S. economy. Nothing at all!
Now, you can criticize Clinton for being too lenient when it comes to National Defense, since he really didn't do anything to strengthen National Defense at all. But to say Bill did nothing as President is just foolish and rubbish. Clinton will be remembered as one of the greatest U.S. Presidents of our times and possibly one of the top of all times. Especially when you compare him to the two Bushes that came before and after him. - Quote:
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On a side note, it completely offends me that this poll is called an "Election Poll" when only Democratic candidates are available as option.
The poll question is clearly asking whom we'd prefer to be the democratic leader going into the Presidential U.S. election this autumn. If you'd like to see a conversation about republicans (even if it's just for the sake of fairness), then you are free to start another thread.
Alright, I'll admit, I have egg on my face. I was wrong about Bill, partially.
He still didn't do much of anything for the economy. It's not like Bill went out and gave money to people who owned factories so that they could expand and hire more people, and what not. The excess in job, stock and what not were all part of the economic cycle which hit a high point at that time. Being as the end of the cycle is recession, and the cycle used in this country usually lasts between 7-11 years, it's perfectly feasible for it to have been completely coincidental with the presidents. Granted, I'll admit, we'd probably have a bit stronger of an economy at teh moment if we weren't wasting billions of dollars on a war that even the soldiers think has been long over.
But seriously, it's impossible to maintain a stable economy in a capilist country, based on the workings of it. I mean, say the economy somehow flourished during the Bush's terms. Then Obama, or Hilary, or Guilliani, or whoever would be blamed for teh inevitable downfall, regardless of whether or not (and they wouldn't be) responsible. Fact is, the only type of economic structure where there is always stability is Communism, when it works. But Communism never works.
On a side note, while I don't think Bush is the worst President ever, I don't advocate his policies either. Granted, were it not for congress and shit, he couldn't have done jack, so let's truck all teh assholes out of there...
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Nubochanozep
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Jan 15 2008, 12:33 AM
Post #40
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- Eric Omega
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It's not like Bill went out and gave money to people who owned factories so that they could expand and hire more people, and what not
lol. No he didn't do that because that would lead to inflation. Economics 101.
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The excess in job, stock and what not were all part of the economic cycle which hit a high point at that time. Being as the end of the cycle is recession, and the cycle used in this country usually lasts between 7-11 years, it's perfectly feasible for it to have been completely coincidental with the presidents. Granted, I'll admit, we'd probably have a bit stronger of an economy at teh moment if we weren't wasting billions of dollars on a war that even the soldiers think has been long over.
You're overplaying the importance of the economic cycle in this situation. Yes, it has a profound effect on economics but without sound fiscal management then it will result in a downturn no matter what part of the cycle a country is in. There's an example, but it pains me somewhat to say it. There was an Australian Prime Minister called Gough Whitlam. He was fantastic on the social side of things but he spent a bit too much, which put Australia into a fairly hard recession. He was in for three years, and that's all it took for the Australian "economy" to go from a "boom" to a "bust".
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But Communism never works.
Works well in Cuba.
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