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| Bret Hart Involved in Verbal Incident | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 29 2008, 11:04 PM (900 Views) | |
| Terrible Fry | Jun 29 2008, 11:04 PM Post #1 |
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| Darren | Jun 30 2008, 12:57 AM Post #2 |
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The Best a Man can Get
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Bret Hart's a jerk, even if Gregs opinion was worth shit, he shouldn't get pissy because some writer doesn't rate him. Get over yourself Bret... most of us have... |
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| Nubochanozep | Jun 30 2008, 01:40 AM Post #3 |
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Bret Hart is a hero and I will always side with him. Go Bretty! |
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| Darren | Jun 30 2008, 02:27 AM Post #4 |
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The Best a Man can Get
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No I'm sick of hearing from him, anything published, anything posted on a site about Bret Hart is him bitching, I don't think I've read anything positive from him about the wrestling business in years... I mean if you were in that position would you really be that ignorant to make a speech directed at how unwanted the person was at the event... I'm sure the daggar in his back was proof enough Bret... we get it, pink spandex is cool, and so are you... |
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| MY85 | Jun 30 2008, 07:14 AM Post #5 |
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It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
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I agree. ![]() Everyone flat-out insists that Bret MUST be the Greatest Of All Time, or if not, Top 3 or Top 5 material. He's a great wrestler, but I wouldn't put him in a Top 10 list. |
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| Nubochanozep | Jun 30 2008, 09:45 AM Post #6 |
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Yes, well fortunately your opinion means shit, especially compared to Bret Hart's. And thus, Hart's opinion of himself is most important of all! Seriously though, guy was a fantastic wrestler/entertainer who was treated like shit far too many times. He deserves to chuck a tantrum if he wants. |
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| Darren | Jun 30 2008, 01:09 PM Post #7 |
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The Best a Man can Get
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Yeah great wrestler but bitter man. I hope that in 10 years when I have settled in the workforce that I'm still not bitter with Michelle for not re-filling the tea pot back, 5 years ago. |
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| Kraul | Jun 30 2008, 01:10 PM Post #8 |
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Regardless of how unfortunate he may have been around the final years of his career, the guy does this kind of stuff too often. It doesn't so much take away from his career, but it definately tarnishes his image overall when most of what people hear coming from Bret Hart is him whining about someone - especially people and incidents that happened ten years ago. |
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| Nubochanozep | Jun 30 2008, 01:19 PM Post #9 |
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Yes but that's like subtracting 1 per year from a score of 100,000,000. The difference is negligible.
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| WWEFootos48 | Jun 30 2008, 01:26 PM Post #10 |
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God
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I could just imagine that, like one of those kid reporters coming up to him: Reporter: Hey, Bret, what is your opinion about Survivor... (Bret gets a very angry look on his face, as if he's about to punch the kid) Reporter: The reality show? No, but seriously, I never really was a fan of Bret. I guess because when I started watching all that was seen of him was someone who was bitter over the whole Survivor Series thing; hell, even the first time I heard of the Survivor Series thing (I think it was on Wrestling With Shadows when they still ran that on A&E) I sided with Vince. I guess he forgot wrestling was a business, and in a business, you have to do what the boss is told; and if he tells you to drop the belt to someone else in what was probably your last appearance with the company, you have to do the job, no questions asked! That's just my opinion, I don't want to start a debate about it, but basically I don't hate the guy, but I haven't really seen too much of him to rate him as a wrestler to rate him in my book. But I do consider his match against Owen at Summerslam '94 as my favorite cage match of all-time... |
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| Nubochanozep | Jun 30 2008, 02:06 PM Post #11 |
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You do as the boss tells you unless what the boss tells you to do spits on a dedicated 13 year career. EDIT: In essence, I don't believe that business overrules humanity. |
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| Darren | Jun 30 2008, 02:27 PM Post #12 |
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The Best a Man can Get
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It was a tough decision though I mean this wasn't just leaving a wrestler go, this was leaving him go to the opposition. WCW were prone to give the ole kidney punch, so Bret running off with the belt would have been disasterous... I don't see any reason why Bret shouldn't have to put someone over to benefit the company when he's left... |
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| Kraul | Jun 30 2008, 04:07 PM Post #13 |
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Bret refusing to lose the belt on his way out was selfish and unprofessional. When a champion, especially a world champion, is leaving a company, it's expected the champion loses the belt on the way out. It gives benefits the company they're leaving and it benefits, or at least has the potential to benefit, whoever beats the champ. Refusing to lose the belt because you don't like the guy they want you to lose it to and it's your hometown (for Bret, Canada as a whole tended to be his hometown) is very unprofessional and reflects badly on the stubborn champ. Now you could argue that it was unprofessional for Vince to put Bret in that scenario, to screw him over that night, and/or to compromise Bret's longterm plans with the WWF. A lot of that was no doubt unprofessional behavior, but that doesn't excuse Bret's behavior. Bret could've and should've been a pro and done what was expected of him. If he wanted to protest before, after, and during. Fine. But do it. Instead, he chose to be selfish and petty. And since then, almost every public speech or interview he gives is overflowing with Bret Hart whining about his misfortune and playing the victim. It was okay years ago because it was all still fresh, but after ten years, he should get over it already and move on with life. And not try to piss and moan to anyone that will listen. |
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| WWEFootos48 | Jun 30 2008, 04:14 PM Post #14 |
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God
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And besides, it was apparently Vince himself who helped Bret get in touch with WCW, and negotiate a $3 million a a year contract. It's not like Vince knocked him out the door; he said that having Bret on the roster was not worth it financially, and did everything possible to help him get to WCW. Then Bret went and refused to job in his last match. Really, that's what happened. |
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| Darren | Jun 30 2008, 05:24 PM Post #15 |
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Wow I get slaughterd by Bret Hart marks everytime I voice my annoyance at his whining, I didn't expect back up! |
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| Kraul | Jun 30 2008, 05:40 PM Post #16 |
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| WWEFootos48 | Jun 30 2008, 05:43 PM Post #17 |
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Well again, as I said, I don't hate the guy, but I think you can only go so far with the negative comments (him talking, I mean). He even said he refused to do the '06 Hall of Fame ceremony if Shawn Michaels was there. Seriously, he has to let go. Shawn was just doing what he felt was right for business, and isn't even "that guy" anymore. Besides, it was almost 9 years past at the time.
If the pope can forgive the guy who shot him, I think Bret can forgive the guy who stood up for his boss and did what he believed was the right thing, nothing more. |
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| Nubochanozep | Jul 1 2008, 02:25 AM Post #18 |
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I don't excuse his behaviour, friends, so these long winded posts weren't necessary. I just think that he deserves to chuck a tantrum if he wants, because regardless of whether or not his actions were wrong, he was treated like a piece of garbage. And please, haters, let's not forget that Bret agreed to lose the belt to ANYONE other than Shawn Michaels, which I can understand because HBK seemed like a bit of an asshole. |
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| Darren | Jul 1 2008, 10:50 AM Post #19 |
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Which is ironic as Bret seems like quite the asshole... It's not his decision to make, the company head chose Michaels so you know... tough shit Bret... |
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| Kraul | Jul 1 2008, 12:14 PM Post #20 |
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Yeah, pretty much. Bret doesn't call the shots. He can complain and request something different, but at the end of the day, he wasn't in charge and should've just done his job. |
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| Purple Marauder | Jul 3 2008, 06:29 PM Post #21 |
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Stand Back! There's a Hurricane Coming Through
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| 15 Shows | Jul 4 2008, 04:32 AM Post #22 |
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Aint cheatin aint tryin
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That right there kills the credibility of this writer. There were maybe 1 or 2 people with more talent, at best. The word luck and Bret Hart just don't go together unless the word "bad" is in front of it. The people calling the shots didnt want a guy like Bret or Shawn to ever become champion. They wanted guys like Hogan and Warrior to have it forever. The fans forced them into having no choice but to give it to the guys who worked there asses off like Bret and Shawn. This guy is a fucktard and doesn't know shit about shit, rot in hell asshole. |
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| Nubochanozep | Jul 4 2008, 11:26 AM Post #23 |
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^agreed darren & kraul: so regardless of how unethical something the boss requests is, you've gotta do it anyway? nah uh. |
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| WWEFootos48 | Jul 4 2008, 02:47 PM Post #24 |
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What was so unethical about having to job out his last match in his hometown, especially when his 30 days notice or whatever the hell it was, was to expire? Vince even said it himself, there are ways to lose which make you look like a bigger hero than even winning, sometimes. Bret just seemed really snobby refusing to do it. I don't see what's even remotely unethical about giving away the title; again, using another Vince line, it's a wrestling "tradition" to give up the belt if you're leaving, and Bret didn't want to do it. If you want to go that far, you can say what Bret wanted to do was unethical. And I'll partially agree, there aren't hundreds of wrestlers better than Hart, but I surely think there are more than two. The writer was obviously using a bias going against Hart. But don't you think that being "forced" to use guys like Hart or Michaels as champion means that they became champion due to good timing and some luck? If they started in the 70's, no matter how much talent they had they would have never become champion, but I would argue that you cannot compare different eras, because things were always different. You could argue the same thing about someone like Stone Cold becoming champion because of good timing because if he was coming up in the 80's, first of all he wouldn't have been as over-the-top as he was allowed to be in the 90's. And the management may have not been so keen on just letting him "be himself" either, in the area of the super-gimmick. So I think even in most cases, not just Hart's, a title reign comes to good timing. |
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| Terrible Fry | Jul 4 2008, 03:48 PM Post #25 |
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For those who don't feel like reading all of this, this is a statement from Bret Hart's consulting manager saying that Bret's issue was not with Greg Oliver's opinion of Hart but instead believes...
And it also provides a bit more detail on what happened, at least from Marcy Engelstein's perspective. |
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| Darren | Jul 4 2008, 05:10 PM Post #26 |
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The Best a Man can Get
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You lost all credibility with me with that comment --> Outsider It's hardly of his concern, the only reason he doesn't want Greg to be widely recognised like Meltzer is because he has a contrasting view of how good Hart is. If Meltzer word is bible, then Bret is the greatest legend to have ever lived, if people view Gregs opinion with as much weight then Hart is just a very good wrestler... his stock plummets. ---> Jimmy Well if you talk of ethics, it was hardly ethical to stomp your feet like a child when asked to pass on the belt to the next up and comer. He's selfish and very egotistical. He didn't like Michaels... Yeah so what you're not the boss, you're a wrestler. Know your place in the business. WWF had to move on from losing a massive name like Hart, so obviously the best step was to build the new icon. Shawn Michaels had more than enough ability to deserve carrying the title. There would have been no screwjob, if Bret Hart wasn't such a dick in the first place... |
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| 15 Shows | Jul 4 2008, 10:47 PM Post #27 |
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Aint cheatin aint tryin
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Im not too concerned about the whole thing. You guys say he should move past the whole Survivor Series thing, and even thought this incident had nothing to do with it, you found a way to get into a huge conversation about it. So clearly he isn't the only one not to have gotten over it. Sure it's been 11 years, but it was a huge thing. And will probably be discussed for another 11 years. It's easy for Micheals and Vince to get over it, cause they continued there careers, and have done very well since then. What has Bret got since then. He was at that shithole WCW. Doing absolutly nothing, his talent was wasted, then his brother died, then he had a career ending concussion, then a motorcycle accident and a stroke! Fucksakes if any of you went through that, you would probably be pretty bitter at all the people that fucked you over aswell. As for Darren, you think there are alot of people with more talent then Bret. And that's fine. But if you think there's hundreds, then you obviously have no buisness discussing wrestling. I think it's a little crazy not to have him in your top 10, but it's not a big deal. Personally, I say Stone Cold is number 1, followed then by Bret Hart. Why? I have my reasons. Why you think he sucked? I don't know, maybe it was because of his mic skills. Or maybe it's because you don't like his personality. Maybe it's because he wore pink. I don't know and I don't give a shit. But the fact remains, Bret has had it pretty tough, so cut him some slack. |
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| Darren | Jul 4 2008, 11:28 PM Post #28 |
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Of course we can't forget about it, he's still bitter about it, and most of us have to hear about it on a monthly basis. First of all, Shawn Michaels and Vince can hardly be blamed for his life taking a turn for the worse. Secondly WCW wasn't a shithole at the time, it was WWF's major contender,WCW was a company willing to give Bret more money than WWF could afford to give him. That doesn't sound like a shithole. Bret Hart is probably one of the greatest wrestlers of his era, but it's hard to claim he is the best, considering the wrestlers that came before him, or the wrestlers that plyed their trade in other continents. im sure there is plenty of wrestlers who have about the same ability as Bret Hart had with half the exposure. I don't think he sucks, I was a very big fan of him when he wrestled... I still watch some of his old matches, that doesn't go to say that he's not a dickhead. I support Manchester United, and I have no problem recognising that Cristiano Ronaldo is a dickhead but he's a fantastic player. As for cutting him some slack, I would if I felt his current behaviour deserved it. |
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| Nubochanozep | Jul 5 2008, 07:57 AM Post #29 |
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There was a clause in Hart's contract giving him creative control, hence, unethical. There was also the fact that he and Michaels didn't like each other, and apparently for good reason since Michaels was a self admitted asshole. Picture yourself in a company with someone that you despise. You're asked to hand your job over to that person you despise, despite others being more than capable of taking over the position. Unethical. And appeal to tradition is a logical fallacy mang, don't use it on me.
lolwut? When did he do that? Was it for a reason? I hope you're not talking about Michaels since at that point in time he wasn't really an up and comer. |
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| Darren | Jul 5 2008, 01:32 PM Post #30 |
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Creative control doesn't give you the final say on what goes on, he expressed his views and Vince still didn't agree with it. Touch shit. Clause implemented, now stop bitching. By up and coming I meant someone good enough to take the next step. Michaels was more than able to carry the title, if you look at how it turned out for Michaels now, it was obviously good business to put the title on him. The only difference I'm seeing here is Michaels was a "self admitted asshole" and Bret Hart is still in denial. |
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