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Proposition 8
Topic Started: Nov 4 2008, 06:51 PM (222 Views)
_DL_
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BURN IT DOOOWWNNNNNNNN!
Quote:
 
Proposition 8 is an initiative state constitutional amendment on the 2008 California General Election ballot, titled Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry. If passed, the proposition will "change the California Constitution to eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry in California." A new section would be added stating "only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."


What are your feelings on same-sex marriage? Should Prop 8 be passed?
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Jesus Omega
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Personally, I don't really care about marriage that much. If two gay men (or women) want to get married to each other, that's fine by me. Just don't start 69-ing in my lawn, or something.
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WWEFootos48
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Let them have the same rights as regular couples in a union-like sense? Sure. Marry, in the actual definition of Marriage in a religious sense? Absolutely not. Actually that's the same viewpoint I heard someone who is gay say as well, so... Yeah, I really don't care as long as they keep the kissing and groping to themselves... unless they're two hot girls wanting to show how free they are... then I wouldn't have any issues... remember, I said "hot," not the boy-haircut, baggy pants and t-shirt women. Then it's wrong on their part too.
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Cybrus
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STAY HYPED!!!
If the term "marriage" is the only hang-up for going against it, then just change the term. I think two people who fall in love and want to spend their lives together should be allowed to. Doesn't matter what you call it as long as they get the same legal benefits as any other combined couple.
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Nubochanozep
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WWEWhoseLine48
 
Sure. Marry, in the actual definition of Marriage in a religious sense? Absolutely not.


Apart from big-nosed Israelis and a few backwards Arabs, how many people truly honestly believe that marriage has anything to do with religion anymore? An absolute minority. Your assertion here is absolutely wrong, because the religious sense doesn't hold anymore.
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Legacy
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snooooooooop
Yes on prop 8.
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Nubochanozep
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No on 24!
No on 24!
No on 24!
No on 24!
No on 24!
No on 24!
No on 24!
No on 24!
No on 24!
No on 24!

It's a landslide: Yes on 24!
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WWEFootos48
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Jimmy C
Nov 4 2008, 11:34 PM
WWEWhoseLine48
 
Sure. Marry, in the actual definition of Marriage in a religious sense? Absolutely not.


Apart from big-nosed Israelis and a few backwards Arabs, how many people truly honestly believe that marriage has anything to do with religion anymore? An absolute minority. Your assertion here is absolutely wrong, because the religious sense doesn't hold anymore.
That's why I said marriage in that sense. There still are people who think of marriage as a man in a woman standing in a chapel getting vows from a priest. Not saying that's me, but it still does stand. But unions I'm fine with, just so I can stop seeing those freakin' videos on the news of gay guys picketing outside buildings wanting gay rights.
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Nubochanozep
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But that's the thing - does it stand? I say no, since the majority don't give a rats.

Mebbe in America I dunno.
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WWEFootos48
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I think we can compromise with them, though, don't use the word marriage and you can do whatever the hell you want... behind closed doors... that would solve any existent or nonexistent conflict.
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Nubochanozep
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I used to think that but now I don't know what to think! :(

Either that or I don't care.

I remember once the ACT (a state) legalised civil unions, and about a day later the Federal Attorney General passed legislation in parliament that made it illegal. lol Australia. :(
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Jesus Omega
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For the common population, that may not be the case. However, there are many politicians who are Christian, and are guided by their Christian beliefs in theirs acts as Politicians. Do I agree with it? No. Does it happen? Yes.
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Nubochanozep
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Interesting question regarding that: should politicians make decisions on their own (since they were elected on the basis of those beliefs), or should they act as a representative to the changing views of their constituents.

I say the latter.
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Jesus Omega
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They're intended to do the latter. But intent isn't always what actually happens.
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Nubochanozep
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Quite.
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Purple Marauder
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WWEWhoseLine48
Nov 4 2008, 11:51 PM
There still are people who think of marriage as a man in a woman standing in a chapel getting vows from a priest.
That's suppose to come after the marriage right? :lol:

If I am not mistaken, Prop 8 was voted down in CA. That's surprising to me because the state has such a reputation for liberal thinking and pro gay rights. Interesting...
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Voted down as in it passed?
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Purple Marauder
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Yeah, I worded that wrong. Prop 8 passed and same sex marriage is now illegal.

Quote:
 
8:21 AM, November 13, 2008

There has been much talk about how voters coming out to support President-elect Barack Obama ended up helping pass Prop. 8. Part of that has come from exit polls showing overwhelming black support and large Latino support for the measure that banned gay marriage.

But Nate Silver, the poll guru behind the much-discussed website fivethirtyeight.com, offers a different view. His analysis of the exit polls suggests Prop. 8 would have passed by a larger margin in 2004. And he sees age as being a big determiner:

Furthermore, it would be premature to say that new Latino and black voters were responsible for Prop 8's passage. Latinos aged 18-29 (not strictly the same as 'new' voters, but the closest available proxy) voted against Prop 8 by a 59-41 margin. These figures are not available for young black voters, but it would surprise me if their votes weren't fairly close to the 50-50 mark. At the end of the day, Prop 8's passage was more a generational matter than a racial one. If nobody over the age of 65 had voted, Prop 8 would have failed by a point or two. It appears that the generational splits may be larger within minority communities than among whites, although the data on this is sketchy.

Meanwhile, the Sacramento Bee reports the No on 8 campaign spent the final weeks of the campaign in turmoil, trying to figure out a message and generally playing defense:

Key staff members –- including the campaign manager -– were replaced in the final weeks as polls turned dramatically against the No side. Their replacements say they found an effort that was too timid, slow to react, without a radio campaign or a strategy to reach out to African Americans, a group that ultimately supported the measure by more than 2 to 1.

-- Shelby Grad
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Legacy
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snooooooooop
Thank God.
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_DL_
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BURN IT DOOOWWNNNNNNNN!
You mean Allah.
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Legacy
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snooooooooop
Allah means God in Arabic. :P
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_DL_
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Exactly.

STICK TO YOUR NATIVE TONGUE :angry:
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Legacy
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snooooooooop
I DON'T SPEAK ARABIC :angry:
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Purple Marauder
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Quote:
 
People took to the streets throughout the U.S. last weekend to protest passage of California's Proposition 8 - which bans same-sex marriage.

Protests were held from California to Nevada, to even North Carolina, with gay-rights activists arguing that gay couples deserve the same marital rights and recognition that heterosexual couples enjoy. But some of the protests are getting downright nasty, and, by some reports, are turning into sheer anarchy.

There are reports (Chuck Norris has a little list) that: Prop 8 protestors in California shoved a 69-year-old woman who was bearing a cross, spit on her, and stomped on the cross; Prop. 8 supporter Jose Nunez, 37, was assaulted while distributing yard signs to other supporters after church services at the St. Stanislaus Parish in Modesto, Calif.; a 25-year Mormon artistic director of the California Musical Theatre was forced to resign because of his $1,000 donation to the campaign to pass Prop 8; and non-Latter Day Saints Hispanic women were beaten up for cleaning up vandalism at an LDS temple. (The Mormon Church, by the way, rounded up about $20 million to spend on getting Prop 8 passed.)

In Palm Springs last Friday night, a woman showed up carrying a styrofoam cross, and a scuffle took place. The crowd even turned on the KPSP Local 2 news crew. You can see that video here.




"They began grabbing me. It was like a dog pack," said Phyllis Burgess, a Prop 8 supporter who had expletives and slurs yelled at her. "The crowd was very angry that someone was here that they felt didn't belong here ... But I've lived in this city for 30 years."

The video shows one protester grabbing the styrofoam cross from Burgess' hands. Another protesters is shown stomping on it. Burgess says she was struck on the head and spit on.

"I don't want to keep it peaceful anymore," one protester yelled. "We should fight! We should fight!"

The area's Calvary Chapel Chino Hills was spray painted by vandals after they learned that the church served as an official collection point for Prop. 8 petitions.

African Americans, 70% of whom voted yes on Prop. 8, according to a CNN exit poll, are also targets of the gay hate. Racial epithets have been used against African Americans at protests in California - with some even directed at blacks who are fighting to repeal Prop. 8. Gay rights activists are now publishing lists online exposing individuals and organizations that have donated money in support of Prop. 8. This is sometimes resulting in violence.

And by many accounts, these actions are turning more people off to the movement.

For example: one LA Weekly writer who was marching with the Proposition 8 opponents over the weekend says: "I can also see that we are quickly coming to a point where reckless protesting may turn off all kinds of people, whether they are gay and new to activism or they are straight and new to walking alongside gay activists. If that happens, we will miss the chance to build newer, stronger, and broader coalitions and movements for decades to come. We will need these coalitions because the fight for equality is far from over, and our opponents will continue to attack one way or another. We, the gay community, can go our own way, but we will probably squander the goodwill that Proposition 8 has now handed us."

Andrew Sullivan at The Atlantic argues that the gay-rights movement is lacking a strong leader to rally the troops in productive ways, and that the Human Rights Campaign certainly isn't doing the job. Daily Kos says the organization to defeat Prop 8 just wasn't there.

Regardless of the reason for Prop 8's success, the conclusion is: the voters of California have spoken - for better or worse.

Does berating a near-elderly woman who supports Prop 8, and spitting on her for having beliefs different than you, help the cause? I don't think so. Yes, there's frustration, but funneling that frustration into more productive, effective methods of pushing your cause will do a lot more good than just further alienating those whose support you could use. If the idea is to encourage others to be more open-minded and accepting of those different from them, beating them into submission (metaphorically speaking, hopefully) might not be the best route.


Damn. Everyone needs to take it down a notch.
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Legacy
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snooooooooop
Fucking faggots.
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WWEFootos48
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lulz.

Actually I was discussing this with one of my friends, whether I care for it or not (I prefer not to think about a same sex couple wanting to do it, but if they want to do it, and if people voted no, then I won't complain), the fact is, people voted on it and decided they wanted marriage illegal. Now these people, the same people who promote Obama, freedom of speech, and democracy, are now pretty much going against democracy in protesting it. Hey, they voted, you didn't complain that it may have been an unfair question, it got passed, live with it. I understand that people may not be happy, but the people spoke. So to now turn the table and protest, stop people from working, throw out slurs to these people, is moronic and retarded. If you want same sex marriage so bad, move to Connecticut. To protest to the point where the only way to stop it is for The Terminator to overturn the rule is going against practically everything they "supposedly" go for, and is very hypocritical.

Okay, I'm done.
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MY85
It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
Whosey... people want marriage illegal? :lol:
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Nubochanozep
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WWEWhoseLine48
Nov 18 2008, 11:33 PM
lulz.

Actually I was discussing this with one of my friends, whether I care for it or not (I prefer not to think about a same sex couple wanting to do it, but if they want to do it, and if people voted no, then I won't complain), the fact is, people voted on it and decided they wanted marriage illegal. Now these people, the same people who promote Obama, freedom of speech, and democracy, are now pretty much going against democracy in protesting it. Hey, they voted, you didn't complain that it may have been an unfair question, it got passed, live with it. I understand that people may not be happy, but the people spoke. So to now turn the table and protest, stop people from working, throw out slurs to these people, is moronic and retarded. If you want same sex marriage so bad, move to Connecticut. To protest to the point where the only way to stop it is for The Terminator to overturn the rule is going against practically everything they "supposedly" go for, and is very hypocritical.

Okay, I'm done.
Agreed
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WWEFootos48
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MakeYourself85
Nov 20 2008, 07:27 AM
Whosey... people want marriage illegal? :lol:
You know what I meant... gay marriage. That was the topic of discussion, right? Although if they can't get married they probably wouldn't mind everybody getting banned from doing so anyway. :lol:
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