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Obama to end NASA’s Rocket Program
Topic Started: Dec 23 2008, 08:49 PM (281 Views)
Purple Marauder
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Quote:
 
President-elect Barack Obama reportedly wants to end NASA’s Ares rocket program, the endeavor to build brand new, high tech rockets for future space travel, and keep the current space shuttles around a bit longer.

Yes, according to the latest reports, NASA and President-elect are not seeing eye-to-eye on the space program, and Obama is considering some drastic moves. The fact that NASA has had several problems in building the new Ares rockets and have gone way over budget certainly doesn’t help. So Obama’s team has been working on what to do given the major budget issues the space agency is facing.


Opinions?
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Cybrus
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STAY HYPED!!!
NASA is federally funded, correct? Given how poor our economy is and how poor it is expected to continue to get, then I don't see why it'd be a bad thing to cut projects that are forcing federal funded programs to go over budget. I'm not saying NASA isn't important, since science is important. But in a time of economic crisis, scarifies must be made. It's not like he's ending the entire program. Just telling them to use the shuttles they currently have a bit longer.
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Vampiro Americano
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Agreed with Cy.
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Nubochanozep
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Cylent Night
Dec 23 2008, 08:59 PM
NASA is federally funded, correct? Given how poor our economy is and how poor it is expected to continue to get, then I don't see why it'd be a bad thing to cut projects that are forcing federal funded programs to go over budget. I'm not saying NASA isn't important, since science is important. But in a time of economic crisis, scarifies must be made. It's not like he's ending the entire program. Just telling them to use the shuttles they currently have a bit longer.
NASA isn't science, comrade, it's functionality. Without the satellites NASA puts up on a weekly/monthly basis and the maitainance that they carry out, you'd be back in the stone age. To do these things, they need state of the art technology. Otherwise you'll have dead astronauts, flimsy machinery and shittyness all around. There are certain things that are more important than a minor improvement to the economy, or the budget - NASA is one of them. If NASA says that it needs more money, it's probably because they actually do need more money.
Edited by Nubochanozep, Dec 24 2008, 11:51 AM.
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Vampiro Americano
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So we need to send Astronauts to space in order to save mankind or does Obama cut back a little so it eases a financial crisis that is proving hard for people to put food on the table today?

I don't know, you have a point about functionality and NASA do ALOT of important stuff but if they have to hold out a bit longer for extra funds then so be it.

I'm not American but you know, the knock on effect goes along way as proven this year.
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Cybrus
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STAY HYPED!!!
As long as the current space shuttles are functioning, then I see no reason for a NASA cut-back.
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Nubochanozep
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Vampiro Americano
 
So we need to send Astronauts to space in order to save mankind or does Obama cut back a little so it eases a financial crisis that is proving hard for people to put food on the table today?


Well I mean, if this were the case then of course I'd favour food over space whatever, but I don't think that it's a choice between those two. If money really needs to be cut, there are plenty of needless places it could be cut from - defense (pull out of Iraq) for one.

I guess I just think a cutting edge space program is good for everyone, whereas a lacklustre one doesn't really benefit anyone, in fact, it's a drawback.
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Vampiro Americano
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Well yeah, we could go into talking about Iraq and that would safe money. There are many options. I don't think this is a light decision, perhaps NASA don't need funding as much as they have done, perhaps they'll be just fine for a while.

Progress is natural and a necessity of course. But if NASA are facing problems you can argue they need more help or their failings are just not helping the current economy. I'm staying on the fence I think but I can see why Obama is considering drastic action.
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Darren
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Cylent Night
Dec 24 2008, 12:50 PM
As long as the current space shuttles are functioning, then I see no reason for a NASA cut-back.
I agree, if the same work can be completed with those shuttles then there is no reason why the American government shouldn't at least put those projects on hold until the economy is in better shape
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Nubochanozep
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I believe the shuttle program is to be ending in 2010 or so. These machines aren't designed to operate beyond then, I assume (it's not like a car when you can stretch another 10 years out of the machine).
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SRP76
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The shuttles are pushing it as it is. Of the 3 shuttles, only Endeavor is less than 20 years old ("only" 16). And yes, the program is supposedly going to end in 2 years.

You think Obama's jackass buddies in the Senate are riding around in 20-year-old limos? Hell, no. Forget Iraq and all that; just the sheer waste in government officials' amok-running expense accounts would free up all the cash NASA needs, and more. But they don't want to take fiscal responsibility for themselves. The Congressional and Obama's first Executive budgets will be slam-full of all the money they want for their own programs. But they'll turn around and say, "we're just cutting NASA back to help you, by boosting the economy". And some will believe that crap.

Not that freezing everyone out and throwing money at the stock market or into "tax rebates" will fix the economic struggles, in the first place. That just treats a symptom, not the root causes.

In case you can't tell, I'm against letting NASA twist in the wind on this.
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Darren
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I know but when you take into account the damage being done by this recession/depression. It's hard to debate for a few space missions when people are losing their jobs.

Dell apparently have such a high stake in Ireland that their factory represents about 3-5% of the whole country's GDP. It's looking like it'll be closed in the next few weeks.... not cool.
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Purple Marauder
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What do you think about this fact:

Quote:
 
On the campaign trail, Mr Obama first called for cuts and delays to the Constellation program (successor to the Space Shuttle) to fund his education policies but then later pledged to increase Nasa's $17-billion budget by $2 billion, a move apparently calculated to win votes in the Florida and Texas primary elections, where Nasa has its two main bases.


Do you think that Obama is now breaking a campaign promise?
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Nubochanozep
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If he is it's not like I really care because NASA's well being is quite important.

Darren
 
I know but when you take into account the damage being done by this recession/depression. It's hard to debate for a few space missions when people are losing their jobs.


It's also hard to see how a massive effect on NASA for the sake of a minor effect on the economy can be worth it when there are other places money can be sourced from. :)
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Darren
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Even a minor effect on the economy could change a lot of peoples lives. It's not like there is an expiration date on science.

"Oh noes! if we don't learn from this scientific endeavour now then we'll never know" :)
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Nubochanozep
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Ehh, we've already established that space shuttles aren't only for scientific discovery, Darren. Keep up.
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Darren
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Of course, and those things can wait... I know Star Trek made space seem uber important Jimmy but I think we've enough problems down on earth at the moment. They're not cutting the budget completely, there is more than enough money left to maintain the service we already have
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Nubochanozep
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What's your authority on that?
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Darren
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Quote: President-elect Barack Obama reportedly wants to end NASA’s Ares rocket program, the endeavor to build brand new, high tech rockets for future space travel, and keep the current space shuttles around a bit longer.

Not advancing but working with what we've currently got. No backwards step.
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SRP76
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Darren
Dec 28 2008, 03:07 PM
Quote: President-elect Barack Obama reportedly wants to end NASA’s Ares rocket program, the endeavor to build brand new, high tech rockets for future space travel, and keep the current space shuttles around a bit longer.

Not advancing but working with what we've currently got. No backwards step.
Uh-huh. What he's not telling you (or anyone) is what's going to happen to all the specialists involved in those programs. Their pay is part of the budget that is going to no longer exist. Some can be reassigned (which will overtax the budgets of those programs), but many will be out of a job.

And adding people to the unemployment line is supposed to help the economy? I doubt that.

It's not simply a case of not wanting NASA to go without; it's also a case of the "plan" that calls for it to happen being flawed. It would be one thing if it were really going to help (like Obama claims), but it won't. It will just be a waste.
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Darren
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Way to state the obvious, closing down any project is going to leave some casualties, it's up to the powers that be to balance these cuts aiming to aid the most amount of people... it's a budget cut, it was never going to be flowers, puppies and happiness for everyone... but that's the reality of the situation.

What would you do, keep the massively expensive project just to keep the few NASA people happy?
Edited by Darren, Dec 30 2008, 02:59 AM.
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SRP76
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Darren
Dec 30 2008, 02:58 AM
Way to state the obvious, closing down any project is going to leave some casualties, it's up to the powers that be to balance these cuts aiming to aid the most amount of people... it's a budget cut, it was never going to be flowers, puppies and happiness for everyone... but that's the reality of the situation.

What would you do, keep the massively expensive project just to keep the few NASA people happy?
I probably wouldn't be stupid enough to say, "the economy is down, so let's put more people out of work!". And I certainly wouldn't be brazen enough to try to tell those people, "I'm destroying your life for your own good". Just because there are supposedly "the few" of them, doesn't mean you get to just throw them under the bus.

Anyone with a brain knows that there are plenty of other sources of money floating around the government that would not add to the economic problems by tapping into it. But that would be too simple for thiese politicians, I guess.

If anyone wants to go pulling the rug out from under the NASA people, they should set the example by pulling the plug on their own costly initiatives, too. How much you want to bet that won't happen? You don't have enough cash to cover that bet.
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Darren
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SRP76
Dec 30 2008, 03:31 AM
Anyone with a brain knows that there are plenty of other sources of money floating around the government that would not add to the economic problems by tapping into it. But that would be too simple for thiese politicians, I guess.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on these alternative sources of money, as you seem to have this recession thing all sorted out.

....

As opposing to saying to the other people (not in NASA), I'm not doing anything to help the majority because there's a few people in NASA who'd lose their jobs, that's why I'm not putting the funds into getting/helping you keep your jobs.

Whatever way you go about it someone is still getting the bullet. You can vent on the current political structure all you like but we're still pretty fucked, no matter who's in charge during all this...

Edited by Darren, Dec 30 2008, 03:37 AM.
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Nubochanozep
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Silence Darren, you n00b, you're being pwnt.
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Darren
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Says you the man silenced several posts ago. Sign of the great forum debater mouthy when they think they're in the right, then disappearing when they find they aren't :)
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Madness420
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NASA cannot be trusted as an entity and thats become apparent over the last several years. Believe me the government has vested interests in the projects of Nasa especially the ones we do not know about. I'm surprised there being brought into public light for something like this as it's usually been tucked away in the shadows without people paying much attention.


Sad. Who cares about space travel and learning the origins of our existence as long as I have my xbox and cool cell phone that plays songs! :-/
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Vampiro Americano
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Yeah!
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Nubochanozep
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Darren
Dec 30 2008, 02:12 PM
Says you the man silenced several posts ago. Sign of the great forum debater mouthy when they think they're in the right, then disappearing when they find they aren't :)
No I'm still right :eek: :eek: :eek:
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Darren
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The Best a Man can Get
:D Sure you are kiddo...
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MY85
It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
Is NASA really important to be supported right now at this very moment? I'm sure there could be other ways to obtain money, but is NASA really that important at the moment?

Then again, I can assume other entities are supported by the US government like NASA. Those entities may have top secret projects... I'd like to know how much money are being invested in such projects?

Just cut off those bullshit wars and cut down the other incomes that politicians have.
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