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| Raw 1000 Discussion 7/23/12 | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 18 2012, 07:58 PM (995 Views) | |
| Fate | Jul 26 2012, 09:52 AM Post #31 |
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A sloppy celebration at that. It could've been so much better. Should've been. But oh well, it was what it was. Now, I wonder where things will be at come Mania time. I'm guessing it will be Cena vs Rock at the Rumble, with Punk winning the Rumble. Because, how can Cena not be in the main event. Which is stupid cause it shoould be the rumble but nah. Rock will win the match with Cena, and this will set up a triple threat at Mania. Rock, Cena, Punk. I mean, it's too early to tell, but surely I'm not the only one to think this, right? |
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| Cableguy15 | Jul 27 2012, 04:14 AM Post #32 |
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It's not the first time I'm in the minority of wrestling opinions, but you'll all come around eventually (See: Rock's 2011 return). I don't really care who agrees though; the show was not very good. Certainly not up to par for what it should've been. Should I go into all the details? You don't sound convinced. And I'm sorry, but a bad show is a bad show. I mean it wasn't garbage, but it sure as hell wasn't any good. I'm not going to lower my expectations (AKA not expect wrestling to happen among other things) just to enjoy something, I'm just going to stop watching it. But I am interested in where the Punk storyline is going, so not yet. I would also like to see a feud happen with Miz and Christian, but that may have just been a match to give Miz some gold and nothing else. Edited by Cableguy15, Jul 27 2012, 04:21 AM.
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| Cybrus | Jul 27 2012, 10:42 AM Post #33 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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This week's Raw was everything it promised to be and delivered on those promises. Raw was suppose to be a celebration of the past, which it was with all the older names returning for one night only. Not only that, but Raw advanced 3 very important storylines for WWE. First, the expected Triple H vs Brock match for SummerSlam was officially announced. Secondly, WWE loaded next year's Royal Rumble by announcing Rock will challenge for the WWE Title. And thirdly, WWE started Punk's heel turn by having him attack Rock (which goes hand in hand with Rock challenging for the WWE Title come January). Add in that WWE announced AJ as the GM, which will be a very short term storyline most likely, but that's still a step forward to the company. |
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| Cableguy15 | Jul 27 2012, 03:58 PM Post #34 |
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I can't believe your expectations are so low that you're proud of wwe for introducing new storylines, a basic function of any wrestling organization. And they did a poor job on most of them. HHH kicked Lesnar's ass out of the ring. Compare that to Cena THE FACE OF THE FUCKIN' COMPANY mind you, where he couldn't leave a ring without Lesnar busting him up, and the way it was handled made HHH look cool and all, but it was also stupid. I don't recall HHH even being able to do that back in the early 2000's when he was closer to his prime. They also missed an opportunity in giving Lesnar (Who's had one match and lost so far) more credibility. Could've easily fed him the older DX guys, and maybe they are in bad shape, but it's not that hard to job. I've seen guys in much worse shape doing that much. The Rock being announced for the Royal Rumble had no build up or hint to it; it just happened. That's the kind of bullshit WCW pulled back when they were going down in flames. That's lazy as hell on the wwe's part. Part of me wonders if it was on purpose and part of the reason for Punk's "Heel turn", but only next monday will answer that question. The same goes for AJ becoming the GM. Completely out of nowhere. No hint to it whatsoever. Granted, it saved the wedding segment which are always doomed to fail, but once again, you can tell they just came up with this at the last minute without any kind of effort put into it storyline wise. Imagine you're reading a book and the author pulls random bullshit out of their ass all the time like that. That book is going to suck because there's no structure to it. It's just a bunch of random events. And that's the AJ GM storyline in a nutshell. Hopefully she can make it something special, because I do like her and all... Punk is the only storyline that truly interests me. And even that build up was all done at the last minute. Luckily (And wisely) it was all done during a match, and nothing is better than a story being told during a match as Undertaker and HHH showed us. |
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| MY85 | Jul 27 2012, 11:14 PM Post #35 |
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It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
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Like Cybrus said, the 1000th Raw edition was supposed to be a celebration of the past. And Raw favors promos and segments ahead of wrestling matches almost all the time. Next week, Raw will get back on track with the build-up for Summerslam and other stuff. |
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| SRP76 | Jul 27 2012, 11:57 PM Post #36 |
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The Man. Any Questions?
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All he did was knock him out of the ring. I'm pretty sure I've seen Lesnar clotheslined out of a ring before. So simple, even Hardcore Holly can do it. Not a big deal. |
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| Cybrus | Jul 28 2012, 12:13 AM Post #37 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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And I cannot believe you are so cynical that you cannot give credit where credit is due. Lets go over this:
Lesnar and Triple H had an in-ring brawl that was booked relatively even, but if you had to give an edge to anyone it was Lesnar's brawl. He was the dominate one in the brawl. He was the one pushing Triple H around, doing all the attacking. Triple H was scrambling trying to defend himself and trying to get the upper hand. Each time Triple H tried to turn it around, Lesnar would out maneuver him and bury his ass back in the corner. Triple H ended up getting lucky and knocking Lesnar out of the ring, but that wasn't a big triumph moment that make Triple H look superior and Lesnar look weak. It was your basic "face stands in the ring, heel walks up the ramp" segment that we almost always see. As far as your Cena comparison, we've already seen that. We saw Lesnar be completely dominate against Cena and get his ass kicked in the end. Hell, just a few months ago, we saw Lesnar dominate Triple H in a similar in-ring brawl and break his arm. This is storyline advancement on WWE's part, and it's a good thing. Lesnar did the EXACT same brawl technique he did to Triple H last time (using his shoulder to ram him into the corner), and Triple H finally found a way to turn it around on Lesnar. But, like I already said, if you give the advantage to anyone in that brawl, you give it to Lesnar with Triple H pulling out the easy "feel good" moment at the end. This is a storyline that WWE has been building for months. Lesnar got to stand tall last meeting. Triple H stood in the ring this meeting. Now, I do agree with you about feeding DX to Lesnar. I said that above, I believe. They should have had Lesnar attacking New Age Outlaws and X Pac at the very least and then had this segment. I would much rather have seen X Pac getting destroyed than see him flirting with Trish.
Don't you see? The fact that it makes no sense for The Rock to get a title shot is WHY Punk attacked him. Wait until next Monday and you're going to see Punk say how ludicrous it is for Rock to get a title shot. Ask what he's done to deserve a title shot. How having 1 match in 10 years warrants a title shot. And then say he gave Rock a message to show he cannot just take away HIS WWE Title. All your questions are about to be addressed and that's what this Punk storyline is about.
See? You already like the direction this is going in, but you are being to cynical to try to understand the thoughts going into this. Punk didn't turn heel because he attacked Rock. Punk attacked Rock because he doesn't like the favoritism Rock gets and showed Rock through his actions.
AJ being named GM is simply WWE trying to get the most out of AJ's character while she is at her most popular in her career. This is a flash in the pan storyline, I agree. This will be a very short term storyline, probably only a few months. But WWE never hinted to anyone being GM. The storyline was that Big Johnny lost his job when he lost to Cena, and then they let former GMs of years past run the show each week while they searched for a replacement. |
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| Cableguy15 | Jul 28 2012, 01:05 AM Post #38 |
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I'm far from cynical. You should see the dudes on some other wrestling forums some time. The snarkiness was probably off the charts on tv.com. You on the other hand are being far too easy on them. I gave them credit where credit was due; they DID put on some nice segments and matches. But all in all it did not even come close to living up to the hype. A mediocre show at best.
That's wrong on both accounts. I just rewatched the segment where they went at it and perhaps HHH didn't have the advantage the whole way through, but they were basically even in hits until the end where HHH got the final punches in and clotheslined him out of the ring. And on the second point, this is the whole reason why the HHH/Lesnar segment was handled the wrong way. If John Cena didn't get completely brutalized by Lesnar throughout their feud (And my god he did), this isn't really a big deal. Lesnar just wouldn't be built up as this unstoppable beast... but that's the thing. Even though he lost to Cena in his only match, he lost no credibility as that unstoppable monster because he beat the piss out of Cena. Seriously, the only reason John won that match was because Lesnar got cocky and several times he just stood there waiting for Cena to get up so he could get back to beating the shit out of him. And this led to Cena grabbing his chain and nailing him in the face as he was jumping at him. It was done perfectly; though on paper it sounds bad... they handled that feud well. And it's apparent that they aren't handling this correctly. Why does that matter to me, you may ask? Because building Brock up even further provides the opportunity for the next big star to overcome him and make them look like a fucking champ. They've got a pretty genuine opportunity here, and I'd prefer they didn't ruin it. The segment hardly ruined it, but in the grand scope of things, it was pretty stupid.
Erm... yeah, I pointed that out earlier. =/
This is what I'm hoping for. I'll take everything related to that back if that's what happens.
I'm not being cynical. Punk also displayed other heel-like symptoms out there, which apparently you weren't paying attention to. I would prefer you to be right on this one because Punk has the potential to be something special as an anti-hero, but he did display some heel behavior, such as letting Big Show beat the hell out of Cena. Face characters never do that.
I'd rather just have Johnny back. He got more heat than Vickie for crying out loud. Unless it was related to his personal life, I think taking Johnny off tv was a bad idea. And AJ simply wrestling would kill two birds with one stone; she could revive the diva division and they would have some positive way to use her new-found popularity. |
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| SRP76 | Jul 28 2012, 02:33 AM Post #39 |
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The Man. Any Questions?
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I must agree with CG on his overall point: it was a mediocre show. Not really any better than any Raw in the past decade or so. |
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| Cableguy15 | Jul 29 2012, 02:05 AM Post #40 |
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Someone agrees with me!
Edited by Cableguy15, Jul 29 2012, 02:06 AM.
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| MY85 | Jul 29 2012, 04:35 AM Post #41 |
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It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
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Thanks to that DB video, he'll regret agreeing with you. ![]() As for CM Punk and The Rock, I hope he addresses Rock getting a title shot out of nowhere. But I'm sure WWE could have Rock questioning why Punk hasn't done anything against the way WWE is run as he said last year. Or maybe Cena brings up that point since he'll most likely feud with Punk right away instead of Rock (he'll be absent mostly until next year or some random appearance). Not sure if WWE would address Punk's speech from last year soon, but it can be used against him. |
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| Cybrus | Jul 29 2012, 08:07 PM Post #42 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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Raw has absolutely sucked since Extreme Rules. WWE built up WM nicely, and then we had Brock's surprise return to carry us through Extreme Rules. But it has sucked major ass since then. You can look over Raw threads and see mostly everyone saying that each week, or even people not even commenting on Raw at all some weeks. People, for the most part, there may be some exceptions, have been disgusted with the product or have simply stopped watching. As a stand alone show, if you compare this one special show to past specials, then I'll agree with you that this week was mediocre. However, if you compare it to the drivel that we have been seeing for the past 2 months, then this was a good Raw. We saw some fun one night surprises that made people happy (Undertaker's return was easily the stand out). We saw storyline advancement for the immediate PPV (Brock vs Triple H and Punk vs Cena), we saw storyline advancement in the AJ/DB storyline. And we saw long term storyline advancement with Punk turning heel and Rock setting the Royal Rumble main event. It was a good show.
I noticed. The most stand out thing was how Punk looked to be cowering in the corner when Show was attacking Cena. He was balled up in the corner with his hands kind of over his face, but not really. Not exactly the body stature or body language of a defending face. But Punk has been making little heel nuances for the past few weeks, since his backstage skit with Eve a few weeks back.
Big Johnny did have massive heat and if they want a heel GM then they should have just stuck with him. However, I've personally grown tired of the entire heel GM thing. I'd rather WWE go back to having a minimal approach on authority figures where we only see the authority figure when absolutely necessary. I'd rather just see shows play out each week and assume there was someone in charge making those decisions without having someone come out and talk about them. All that said, I worry that we are going to see WWE fall right back into "suck ass" mode. I think they will pull something out leading into SummerSlam, but if they weren't able to make 2 hours of Raw good, then how in the hell is 3 hours going to be better? |
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| MY85 | Jul 30 2012, 01:13 AM Post #43 |
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It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
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Question: when is Raw supposed to begin having 3-hour shows officially? |
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| Cybrus | Jul 30 2012, 01:57 AM Post #44 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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This was the official kick off |
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break 
8:32 AM Jul 11