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| Things that annoy you in wrestling? | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 16 2015, 05:09 PM (813 Views) | |
| Kraul | Feb 16 2015, 05:09 PM Post #1 |
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This might come off as a negative thread, but consider it a kind of companion to the "why are you a wrestling fan?" thread. What are the things that annoy you in wrestling the most? Those things, little and big, that bug you every time you see it, have grown tired of, or just otherwise negatively impact your experience when watching pro wrestling? |
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| Kraul | Feb 16 2015, 05:13 PM Post #2 |
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I have one that's probably a tiny or non-existent issue for many, but it's probably one of my main annoyances in pro wrestling. Its one of the things that never used to bother me much but has started to in time (especially in the age of information): the regular and fairly long knockouts. In combat sports, even in scripted ones, regular knockouts would be a commonly expected occurrence. However, in pro wrestling it seems to happen very rarely in actual matches with the competitors but quite often with everyone else. How many times have we seen referees, managers, or authority/official figures get knocked out by a blow and stay down for minutes at a time? Much of the time, especially in the case of referees, they'll regain consciousness at just the right time for a dramatic finish (or a false finish). What drives me crazy about that isn't just the convenience of the wake-ups and knockouts, but more how the knockouts both seem to lay the people out for a pretty long time and nobody suffers any kind of lingering effects afterwards outside of maybe the minutes immediately following. Its Hollywood knockouts. Where people can suffer temporary brain trauma that lays them out for great lengths of time and be just fine a little later. And it just bugs me so much, especially when more realistic knockouts could be a much more dramatic and interesting match/angle mechanism. Instead we get people who get knocked out for minutes with ease by getting bumped into, "come to" and are immediately aware of their situation and responsibilities rather than being dazed and lost for a moment like all people who have knocked out can describe feeling, and guys who are hitting each other with strikes, holds, and weapons in the ring but very rarely ever lose consciousness in a worked match unless its one of the rare legitimate knockouts. I understand the whole suspension of disbelief thing, but man, every time I see this happen it takes me out whatever is going on. Edit: I should also say that I understand that in real life the more you get knocked out it seems easier to get knocked out going forward, but people who get frequently knocked out always seem to have some form of irreparable brain damage that can only get worse. If I was to apply that real life logic to the world of pro wrestling, then the referees especially must have some severe ongoing brain damage. That would certainly explain why they don't notice so many illegal activities by competitors and interfering people, or can keep track of who the legal man in a tag team match is most of the time.
Edited by Kraul, Feb 16 2015, 05:19 PM.
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| Cybrus | Feb 16 2015, 10:59 PM Post #3 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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Firstly, I must comment that I am surprised that your rant wasn't against the ever-present camera in backstage "private moments". I was just thinking: "Oh, here comes another rant from the past. It's cereal all over!" but was surprised when it was something else. ![]() I agree with the ref bumps. Without repeating what you said, yet still adding to what you said, it's even more annoying when wrestlers are guest referees and still do the ref bumps! I think it's even more annoying when the wrestlers do it because we seem them work matches and take considerable amount of damage. And then they are laid out from something I've seen happen thousands of times before?! I forget what match I was watching (I watch a lot of the WWE Network when I'm on my laptop), but Mick Foley was the special guest referee. He took a bump. A normal bump. Someone (Triple H, I think) pushed him and he fell down. This is Mick fucking Foley! I expected him to bounce right back up like nothing happened. But he sold it like it was something that actually affected him. He held his head, tried to shake it off, and walked like he was whoozy for a few moments. Mick fucking Foley! It completely took me out of the moment. |
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| Kraul | Feb 16 2015, 11:03 PM Post #4 |
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Its funny you mention Foley doing that since I'm currently watching his infamous Hell in a Cell match against Undertaker at King of the Ring '98, which probably has the two most notorious bumps in pro wrestling history - both of which he got back up and continued the match from. ![]() And the invisible camera man thing is definitely a complaint, but its mostly a WWE oriented complaint since I don't see a ton of companies do it outside of WWE. Its actually one of the main reasons I have a hard time watching anything from the post-2000 WWE now. The more recent examples just seemed to have gotten worse about it and it ends up being an instant turn-off, no matter how into the show I might have been right before it. |
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| Cybrus | Feb 16 2015, 11:12 PM Post #5 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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I don't mind the invisible camera and never have. To me, it is no different than when it happens in movies. It is part of the story that the audience needs to know, but is treated as though the antagonist isn't aware of. Is that conflicting? Only if you want it to be. I don't see it as conflicting. |
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| Kraul | Feb 16 2015, 11:28 PM Post #6 |
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It is for me because I like to watch pro wrestling as a kind of legitimate competition with the volume turned up. To me, those invisible cameramen backstage skits not only remind the viewer that what the viewer is watching isn't real but it underlines the fact and it takes me out of the situation entirely. I would liken it to the other cheesy stuff, like the Dungeon of Doom skits in WCW those cartoony moments of villainy seen in the early/mid 90s WWF surrounding the likes of Undertaker and Papa Shango. It won't negatively affect the product if you don't mind that stuff, but if you prefer your wrestling to be a bit more reality based, it can be death for interest. It also seems a bit lazy from a creative perspective. Rather than try to tell a story through matches, backstage interviews, special segments, and camera crews rushing to a scene, they just do away with the need for most of that and plant the camera in a locker room to capture "secret conversations" that usually sound like some bad mixture of a low ranking reality show and a soap opera. But again, I think it mostly comes down to what your brand of pro wrestling is. I think the more soap opera meets saturday morning cartoon aspects have always been the WWE style in some ways and that usually hasn't been my favorite style of a wrestling show. It was definitely a major factor in deciding whether you were a WWF fan or not back in the pre-Monday Night War days and, honestly, as I grow older I'm becoming a bigger fan of all wrestling that isn't WWE. Its just not really my style anymore. |
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| Cybrus | Feb 16 2015, 11:41 PM Post #7 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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I do not. It's actually a turn off whenever a company tries to present their shows as any kind of legitimate sport, to me. Everyone knows it is a work. Don't insult me by pretending it's legit. These are the same companies that typically think matches need a 40 or 45 minute time when most matches are better when they stick to a 20 minute window. Obviously, there are exceptions when it comes to gimmick matches and truly big match main events. But your average wrestler A vs Wrestler B match is perfectly fine within a 12-15 minute time frame. All that said, I do appreciate the athleticism of pro wrestling (obviously) and do like it when the show is presented in a way that the matches and outcomes matter. I'm not really sure how to articulate what I mean since even to me it seems like I am contradicting myself here. I don't want wrestling to be presented like it is a legitimate sport because that takes away too much of it, to me. I also don't want it to be presented like an entertainment hour with celebrity guest host and bad skit segments. I like when it meets in the middle. I like a world where you can have a Brock Lesnar or a Keven Owens being a dominate intimidating force that you could believe could seriously hurt someone but also allows room for a character like Bray Wyatt and his bizarre ramblings. That also has room for a Goldust character and his bizarre persona. I liked the Kane character when he first debuted. You know? |
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| Kraul | Feb 17 2015, 12:09 AM Post #8 |
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I don't want a strict sports-like atmosphere because I'm not a sports fan and if I wanted that, I'd watch the UFC instead. But I definitely prefer the general atmosphere to be about what is happening in the ring, with everything else revolving around that. The invisible cameraman stuff kind of guts the whole sporting atmosphere of it all completely and just comes off corny. I like those bizarre characters, at least on the surface, and they definitely have their place in pro wrestling. Afterall, pro wrestling after it started being televised has always had its off-the-wall elements and gimmicks, but personally I think WWE's style goes a bit too far with those over-the-top personas. I'm fine with over-the-top gimmicks and prefer when they're in wrestling over nothing but serious athletes (which would be boring), but its the moments when they stop being an exaggerated personality or character and start doing things that really require you to suspend disbelief that it really bothers me. You mentioned Kane, and he's a good example. I was a huge Kane fan and still am for his period between his debut and his return in 2002 - when he was still a [mostly] silent monster. But all that supernatural themed stuff that he and Undertaker would do? Its hard to watch, and would be extremely embarrassing to watch with any non wrestling fan (more so than most wrestling can be in general). That is requiring me to suspend disbelief too much. I believe its the number one reason why I've never been able to stomach much CHIKARA. They take the whole wacky gimmicks and overwrote storylines aspect several levels higher than WWE ever has and I just can't get into it all, even on the ironic level that most of their fans seem to get into it on. |
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| Kraul | Feb 17 2015, 12:12 AM Post #9 |
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Maybe it'd be more accurate to describe what WWE produces as what they've been trying to call it for years: sports entertainment. I'm really beginning to think its a completely different thing than pro wrestling, even though they seem very similar and many would argue they're the same. Maybe its something like thrillers and horror in movies. They're similar in many ways, evoke many of the same reactions and emotions, and play out in the same mediums but are very different when you get into the specifics? |
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| Nubochanozep | Feb 17 2015, 01:01 AM Post #10 |
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Indeed. But having agreed with that, I think the WWE should probably shift its tone more towards a UFC/boxing/real fighting style. Shorter matches, more realistic outcomes, less gimmicks and more realism. Brock Lesnar, Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins and Dolph Ziggler are excellent examples of what I think the WWE should strive to be like. Matches should be more like the Royal Rumble main event. And of course, there's always room for wrestlers like The Undertaker, Bray Wyatt, Kane and Mankind in there. --- Chops annoy me. No selling annoys me (however Brock Lesnar's kick out at 1 after an attitude adjustment at the Royal Rumble was fine, because I can believe that) I dislike it when a wrestler is in a choke hold or what have you, and the referee does that lame arm check thing, and the wrestler hypes up at the end of the third arm check and struggles out some how. So yeah, that annoys me. The current RAW commentary annoys me most of the time. Two counts annoy me. JR is right - there should be more one counts.[/i] That'll do for now I'm lazy. |
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| Cybrus | Feb 17 2015, 01:10 AM Post #11 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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I still absolutely disagree with this, but I do see your point.
I agree with this. I have never been a Booker T fan on commentary. Michael Cole can be good, but I have never been able to accept him as a lead guy. I wish I could point to other names for replacements, but even the NXT commentary team is hit-or-miss. The most consistent person I've seen has been Corey Graves. |
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| Cybrus | Feb 17 2015, 01:56 AM Post #12 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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I hate when the Royal Rumble winner says "I went through 29 other guys". Ok, I understand why they did that, but it's annoying because it isn't true. The Royal Rumble winner usually comes in towards the end and he usually eliminates less than 5 people. Saying "I went through 5 people" isn't nearly as impressive as saying "I went through 29 other guys", but it doesn't stop me from rolling my eyes each time they say that phrase. Every year. |
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| Kraul | Feb 17 2015, 02:11 AM Post #13 |
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You may have agreed with Cybrus, but the kind of show you described it preferably turning into sounds like something I'd be more interested in watching over what I see as the modern WWE. More realism, less gimmicky stuff. There's a place for the over-the-top aspects but it shouldn't be overwhelming.
I can't help but roll my eyes when they point to or pose with the WrestleMania sign after winning. It's so overplayed now. I get that it looks good in a picture or video package, but it doesn't need to be done every year. It feels very much like the wrestling world's version of "label out" (when using a product in a commercial, you need to have the label facing 'out' towards the camera/audience). And the commentary... I feel that WWE isn't the only one with this. I don't know about the modern TNA, but Tenay and Taz suffered from the same issue I feel most WWE commentary suffers from and that's that the team doesn't take whats going on very seriously enough times, and they distract from whats currently going on by talking about something else too often. I've been watching a lot of older PPVs lately, now making it deep into the Attitude era of the WWF, and one thing that makes the commentary really stand out in terms of quality is that no matter how insignificant the match may seem, Ross and Lawler give it most if not all of their attention. They're not going on about some main event feud unrelated to the match, nor are they trying to sell you something also unrelated to the match, and they're damn sure not making jokes and chuckling to themselves while the match goes on. And as a result, the overall match quality ends up going up. Bad commentary can not only not add to a match but it can take away from it dramatically. That's another thing that NXT gets right that WWE's main shows do not, imo. I noticed when I watch Takeover: Rival that they do it in a way much more akin to tradition and they pay attention to the match at hand. I think that's adding a lot to the show, even if maybe people don't notice it. |
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| Purple Marauder | Feb 17 2015, 03:25 AM Post #14 |
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Stand Back! There's a Hurricane Coming Through
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Aw cut them a break. There were 30 people in the match and he came out the winner. Only guy 1 & 2 could actually say they went through 29 guys and it be totally true. |
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| Kraul | Feb 17 2015, 04:25 AM Post #15 |
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When was the last winner who was also the first entrant? Chris Benoit? |
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| Kraul | Feb 21 2015, 12:18 AM Post #16 |
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I though of one today that slipped my mind but popped back in while listening to an episode of the Jim Cornette Experience: Constant authority figures. Its definitely one that heavily comes down to personal taste, but its a pretty prominent one. The annoyance is mostly just fatigue of constantly meddling authority figures, especially the heel/meddling ones. They were hot in the mid-to-late 90s with Bischoff and, of course, Mr. McMahon but they were still fresh. Now it just feels played out. I don't know how many WWE has gone through over the last fifteen years (heel, face, or tweener), WCW became obsessed with them, and TNA has kind of always been about them but it seems like it got worse over time. Authority figures definitely have a place, but man... it'd be refreshing to see a major company use the older more realistic authority figures again. You know the types, the Jack Tunneys and J.J. Dillions of the past who would only show up on occasion either during a special event (a legit big announcement or ceremony honoring someone/something, for example) or when a situation has gotten so out of control that it demands attention from the hire-ups. Edit: The constant authority figures, especially the heel ones, also don't make a ton of sense. Why not just fire the thorn in their side? Why not just never give the hated competitor a championship shot, especially when you're company doesn't have strict rankings? Why not just deny them entry into contender qualifying bouts, especially when they exist in a universe where lawsuits amongst employees and employers apparently don't exist?
Edited by Kraul, Feb 21 2015, 12:21 AM.
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| Purple Marauder | Feb 21 2015, 02:27 AM Post #17 |
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Stand Back! There's a Hurricane Coming Through
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That was one thing I liked about the "old days". The promotions I watched, especially in Memphis made sense in that regard. It was run by promoter Eddie Marlin (Jeff Jarrett's grandfather). He was basically a face. When a heel did something really bad, such as when Eddie and Doug Gilbert ran over Jerry Lawler with a car, he would come out to fire them or say he was going to prosecute them or whatever. It always ended the same way. The face wrestler would basically beg him not to because then, he couldn't get his revenge. He would ask for a cage match or something instead. Sometimes, the heel would be "fired" or suspended for a week or two until the face wanting revenge asked for the suspension to be lifted or whatever. Or another heel would have a match where if he won, the suspended guy came back. They always made it make sense for the most part instead of just letting people get away with things. |
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| Nubochanozep | Feb 21 2015, 05:59 AM Post #18 |
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I concur. I think that the number of appearances made by Vince McMahon nowadays is probably too low (once a year, if that), but it's in the right ballpark. The number of appearances made by the authority is far too high. |
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| _DL_ | Feb 21 2015, 06:09 AM Post #19 |
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BURN IT DOOOWWNNNNNNNN!
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The fans. |
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| Nubochanozep | Feb 21 2015, 06:44 AM Post #20 |
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and phil brooks am i right, m8? |
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| _DL_ | Feb 21 2015, 06:58 AM Post #21 |
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BURN IT DOOOWWNNNNNNNN!
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He's no longer active in wrestling. So no, m8. |
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| Kraul | Feb 24 2015, 09:07 PM Post #22 |
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When I mentioned how much I despise the invisible cameraman styles of backstage angles and would prefer something more realistic and authentic feeling, this is the kind of stuff I was talking about: Why can't WWE do this will most of their angles? If they had segments like this laced through their shows to build angles and such along with the more traditional "correspondant with a microphone" style interviews in one tight hour and a half show every week, WWE could really blow people away. Edited by Kraul, Feb 24 2015, 09:10 PM.
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| Kame | Feb 28 2015, 07:49 PM Post #23 |
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This, pretty much. I can't stand "smarks" or anyone who thinks they know more about the wrestling business than they actually do. Edited by Kame, Feb 28 2015, 08:04 PM.
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| Purple Marauder | Feb 28 2015, 10:40 PM Post #24 |
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Stand Back! There's a Hurricane Coming Through
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I find it annoying when anyone says you can't have an opinion on what is happening because "You have never been in the ring." Like if you haven't done something you can't be informed on the subject and your opinion is irrelevant. I may not have been in the ring, but I have been watching for 40+ years. I know what I like as a fan. If I choose to say what is happening is stupid and I don't like it, that wouldn't change if I ran the ropes and took a backdrop. Story lines have very little to do with ring experience. And I write stories all the time. |
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| Nubochanozep | Mar 1 2015, 01:15 AM Post #25 |
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Ric Flair once gave an interview which consisted of him rambling on and repeating this thought over and over again. That marked the beginning of my hatred for Ric Flair. Nobody should complain about smarks or anyone who thinks that they know more about wrestling than they actually do. It's human nature, when one is excited or passionate about something, to talk about it and to share the passion with other people. No-one knows everything about anything, and as a result people are bound to believe false truths. Thus, people are bound to wind up saying things that aren't correct. I don't think that those people bear any ill will. They're just excited about wrestling, and they're just talking about their passion. Such a sucky attitude towards the people who're paying the bills.
Agreed entirely. You know, one of the first things they're teaching us in medical school is to listen intently to the patient's experience, and to query their thoughts, expectations and so on. Medicine is a two way street, involving the doctor and the patient. Wrestling, on the other hand, is a performance. It involves a two way street between the performer and the audience. It seems very short sighted and very naive to discount a wrestling fan's opinion because "they're never been in the ring" or because "they think they know more than they actually do." Ignore your customers at your peril, or something like that. |
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| Kame | Mar 1 2015, 04:29 AM Post #26 |
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For the record, if I had a problem with what any of you were saying on 6SW, I probably wouldn't bother posting here. |
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| Nubochanozep | Mar 1 2015, 07:09 AM Post #27 |
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Why is Eddie your favourite of all time? edit: new thing ... I also dislike it when Jerry Lawler looks around. Picture a WWF PPV broadcast. The cameras are focusing on the commentators. Vince McMahon is fiddling with his pen, while talking. JR is squinting, while talking. Jerry Lawler talks directly to the camera, but when he's not he shakes his head and looks around the arena, for no discernable reason. IT REALLY BOTHERS ME. Edited by Nubochanozep, Mar 1 2015, 07:19 AM.
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| Kame | Mar 1 2015, 04:53 PM Post #28 |
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I started watching wrestling in '04, which was right around the time Eddie was at the peak of his career. Eddie Guerrero, in my opinion, is one of the best professional wrestlers at all-time. He could do anything in the ring and was an unforgettable, lovable character. I wish he was still around. My number one dream match will always be him versus HBK. |
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| Purple Marauder | Mar 1 2015, 09:07 PM Post #29 |
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Stand Back! There's a Hurricane Coming Through
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| Kame | Mar 2 2015, 12:39 AM Post #30 |
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I had no idea there were actually plans to make that match happen. Would've been a classic, no doubt. |
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