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| SmackDown Discussion Thread; Everything Smacked Down into one convenient thread | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 11 2015, 12:36 AM (6,783 Views) | |
| MY85 | Sep 8 2016, 02:03 AM Post #151 |
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It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
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SD didn't have something great as Rollins vs Jericho, but it still manages to do more with its roster in less time than Raw does. Granted that it is hard to hype a PPV in 3 weeks, and the talent might not be the best at first sight, but almost everyone in SD matters. |
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| Cybrus | Sep 8 2016, 03:11 AM Post #152 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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We all know Showsy is down on SD because Eva Marie is suspended. Cheer up, little buddy. All red everything will be back in a few more weeks
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| 15 Shows | Sep 8 2016, 05:15 AM Post #153 |
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Aint cheatin aint tryin
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Not a fan of hers. But I do enjoy Smackdown because it's shorter. However I completely disagree that it does more with its roster than RAW. |
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| Cybrus | Sep 8 2016, 05:24 AM Post #154 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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I think the 2 hour format is really THE factor here. Do you think Darren Young or Titus Oneal would be gettijg weekly matches if Raw didnt have a third hour? Do you think that horrible Old Day skit would have gone on for as long if Raw only had 2 hours? I would like to think not. But we live in a world where SD has the morr desirable time per week. And i think SD does a much better job at using their time effeciently. Every segment builds to something and has meaning in a way that fans typically want more. Raw has a fantastic roster and arguably the stronger roster, but you just know going into 3 hours of Raw that there is going to he at least 1 or 2 segments that are hard to sit through. |
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| 15 Shows | Sep 8 2016, 06:17 AM Post #155 |
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Aint cheatin aint tryin
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3 hours is definitely too long. And it feels too long. But I disagree that Smackdown uses there time more sufficiently. To me Smackdown feels too short. The matches are too short never allowing them to have a really good match. Seriously since the split I cant think of any really good match besides maybe Bray v Dolph. Back in the old days of 2 hours they stlll were able to have a few good matches each week. So why not anymore? They give more time building the horrible Smackdown divas then the Bray v Orton match? I mean what the hell. And lets not act like Smackdown doesn't have bad segments. Divas forum and Fandango dancing were just as bad. While I do agree RAW would be much better at 2 hours, I disagree that Smackdown does better with its roster in the shorter time. |
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| Cybrus | Sep 8 2016, 07:17 AM Post #156 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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The Fandango/Kane squash was abysmal and very unneeded. I definitely agree with you there. I dont understand why they are giving Kane squash matches. Does anyone not know Kane is a monster? He should be winding his career down, not being rebuilt. I know you dont like the divas, except for Charlotte, so i typically let you do your anti-diva rant and ignore it. But you are very wrong when categorizing the diva segments (on either brand) as terrible. Just looking at the SD brand at the moment: Becky Lynch is the best diva on the brand excelling both in the ring and on the mic. Nikki needs no explanation, anyone with eyes knows her talent. Nattie has an annoying personality, but is a great in ring talent. naomi lacks in personality or mic skills, but is dependable (but not great) in the ring. Alexa Bliss isnt very developed as a character, but is good both on the mic and in the ring. Honestly, the only bad divas on the brand are Carmella and Eva Marue, both whom are trash. It is one thing to just not like a type of wrestling. Just say it doesnt appeal to you and move on. But dont damage your own credibility by downplaying something that is widely accepted as a strong point just because you personally dont like it.
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| Sir Shorty | Sep 8 2016, 02:29 PM Post #157 |
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2012 ROYAL RUMBLE WINNER MOTHERFUCKERS!!!
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Well said Cybrus. |
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| 15 Shows | Sep 8 2016, 05:47 PM Post #158 |
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Aint cheatin aint tryin
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Again, you think these divas are better than they are simply because of how bad the divas used to be. So they bring in girls with a little more talent and scream divas revolution, and you fall for it. Yes Charlotte is great on the mic and in the ring. Yes the WrestleMania triple threat was great. Yes Charlotte v Sasha on RAW was great. Ill even give credit where credit is due, I think Sasha Banks is really good in the ring aswell. But on the mic she is fucking horrible. And her fake retirement could have been so much better and more powerful if she had a lick of talent on the mic. Now at first I tossed the divas revolution aside because all the matches you talked about were on NXT which I don't watch. So when they all came over to WWE I figured Id get a chance to actually weigh in. And if you are going to try and tell me that these womens wrestlers still aren't very sloppy in the ring, then youre crazy. Just because there women and they've improved doesn't mean you should all of a sudden accept all these sloppy moves and mistakes. Even the shitty male wrestlers aren't that sloppy. Yet the divas are somehow more entertaining to you. Now you say I'm wrong when I say a divas segment is horrible. So youre going to try and tell me that the Nia Jax and Alicia Fox thing wasn't terrible? WTF! And the womens forum was horrible. Becky Lynch who you think is great on the mic which is laughable, she came off as a whiner. Even the heel divas were calling her a whiner, and she was. The segment had too many people, no one had a chance to look good so I wont entirely blame the girls for that segment being bad. Now Ive covered the bad segments thing which you tried to say I was "very wrong". Now lets talk the Smackdown divas Becky Lynch. Shes not as bad in the ring as some of the others. But you just used the word excellent....again, to just toss aside the mistakes and sloppiness because shes a woman is crazy. You also said shes excellent on the mic? Like are we watching the same thing. Shes horrible. Nikki. I do like her. Like you said anyone with eyes knows her talent. But wrestling isn't the talent my eyes see haha. Shes okay, much better than Bri. But shes still sloppy and not all that great and bad on the mic. Nattie may be annoying, which is why I'm happy she went heel. But easily the best wrestler on the roster. But even she can be sloppy and make mistakes. Naomi is very much like the divas of old. No personality, very athletic but a shitty wrestler. I don't know much about the other 3 because Ive only seen them wrestle once or twice. But Carmella is horrible on the mic and Alexa Bliss has been good so far. She came off the best of all 6 in the forum segment. So this isn't a case of me not liking the divas and ranting without reason. I provide my reasons, moments to back them up and explain my point of view. So don't try and play this off as some 2010 15 Shows sexiest pointless rant. Aint the case. They just aren't as good as everyone thinks they are. |
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| Cybrus | Sep 9 2016, 12:34 AM Post #159 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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i am not giving any sort of free pass because these are women. i praise them because charlotte, sasha, becky, bayley, and paige are all damn good and as good as or better than at least 90% of the male roster. the reason the WM match was so good was because it had 3 of these names. the reason the second best match of the night at summerslam (behind aj vs cena) was a woman's match was because it involved 2 of them. throw in nikki's return and that would have been a damn impressive division. but wwe decided to split the division in 2 and we now have decent to average workers and horrible wrestlers that shouldnt be in the ring also being featured. i never said it was perfect, only that you diss every segment every week that doesnt involve charlotte, which is absurd. becky lynch is quite skilled on the mic. if you cant see it, maybe consider getting your eyes or ears checked? her being called whiny by heels doesnt make her mic skills poor, as it is a reflection of their characters. the issue with the opening segment with the womens title was that there were just too many people trying to talk and establish themselves. it is hard to have a coherent or productive segment when that people people are trying to air their grivances. this is the same issue we see each year when all the MITB people try to talk over each other. i agree the segment wasnt booked well and came off as more of a rambling mess than a strong final build for Sunday. the nia jax/alicia fox segment was not terrible. it was absolutely hilarious. as in i rewound and watched multiple times. nia jax is a monster that just crushed alicia's friend and bragged about it. nia jax is a monster that hasnt been stopped or even touched since she debuted. and alicia is going to try to intimidate her by going psycho bitch on her and throwing around facial tissues? this is how she tries to intimidate a woman that destroys girls every week without being touched? did you see nia jax's facial reactions? she knows she is going to murder/death/kill alicia fox next week. it was hilarious ![]() incidentally, nia jax isnt very good and is getting this push because 1. her size and 2. she is the rock's cousin. countering the rest of your points would just be a repeat of what i said in my previous reply. feel free to read it as many times as you'd like. so, yes, this is very much a case of you going "these are women so they arent as good because they are women". every segment isnt great, and i am not saying it is. but over all, the womens division is stronger than it probably ever has been and truly rivals the male counter parts. ![]() |
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| WWEFootos48 | Sep 14 2016, 12:15 AM Post #160 |
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God
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I'm ducking in my chair. Shit Ambrose and Cena are REALLY firing on one another. |
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| MY85 | Sep 14 2016, 01:19 AM Post #161 |
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It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
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Harley Quinn is now challenging Balboa for the SD Women's title. |
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| Cybrus | Sep 14 2016, 02:07 AM Post #162 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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Said this earlier this morning and just now Jack Swagger jumped from Raw to SD. Seriously? just months after the split? ![]() Also, if they are going to try to buld Swagger as a serious threat to anyone (as his promo suggested) then no one is gonna buy it. Swagger is too damaged and not near good enough to overcome that |
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| Cybrus | Sep 14 2016, 02:27 AM Post #163 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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is this the first time they have admitted Cena is officially a part timer? cena's face after that was a good sell. i am reading he is expected to leave again after No Mercy, so doubt he wins the belt, but you guys know how my prediction skills are ![]() Alexa Bliss getting a title shot should be a good way to establish her as she was kinda lost in the 6 girl build. i dont see Becky losing her first defense, tho so is eric back with bray? did they ever split? wwe books the wyatts in a very confusing way Edited by Cybrus, Sep 14 2016, 02:47 AM.
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| WWEFootos48 | Sep 14 2016, 06:41 PM Post #164 |
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God
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I keep refreshing the ratings news like every 5 minutes. They haven't come out with an official number yet but for some reason I feel like I'm back in 2003 when I used to do this shit every single week in class waiting for ratings reports. |
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| WWEFootos48 | Sep 14 2016, 09:21 PM Post #165 |
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God
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I didn't see the official number in a "ratings" format (like how Raw was a 1.88) but they're saying Raw beat SD by about 30 thousand viewers. It was THAT close. But SD was consistent or better with where they've been (and was the highest show overall broadcast or cable in the 18-49), and also won the night overall on cable, so it can't be seen as anything but a huge win. Okay, now Andrew's opinion...I kind of find it weird how SD ratings are listed compared to Raw. I'm not sure if most are aware, but I remember them doing this as long as I've been watching wrestling...Raw's ratings are split by hour. It used to be WWF Raw is War then WWF War Zone, then Raw followed by Raw Zone, and now it's WWE Raw hour 1, hour 2, hour 3 with 3 having the 11 pm runoff. With SD on cable and even on the same channel now, it's still considered only one show without a split between hours. I wonder why they do that? I know why they do it for Raw, it was so they can get more advertising money for the higher-rated hours (which is moot for WWE now since USA gets their advertising money) but I mostly mean why wouldn't they do it for SD since advertising will be similar (both live shows now) and they have similar time slots? Edited by WWEFootos48, Sep 14 2016, 09:32 PM.
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| MY85 | Sep 15 2016, 05:58 AM Post #166 |
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It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
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I'm not sure what is the critieria as to why only report Raw's ratings per hour. Technically, I think you could get information about ratings every 15 minutes.
Edited by MY85, Sep 15 2016, 05:59 AM.
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| WWEFootos48 | Sep 15 2016, 03:21 PM Post #167 |
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God
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You can absolutely break it down that way (and also by demographic) but it still seems weird that they have Raw listed as 3 different shows, per se, but SD is only one even though same channel, same start times, same format (live), just different nights. Also what's also interesting is that Raw gets the overrun at the end of the third hour and SD doesn't. It's not like anything more important airs after SD than Raw. |
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| 15 Shows | Sep 16 2016, 04:28 AM Post #168 |
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Aint cheatin aint tryin
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1.88 is horrible. And I read they make more money now than they ever have. I don't get how. So much less people watch. 1.88??? WTF. How could they lose going back to PG14? Anyway, Smackdown was good. And once again, better as a whole show. Nothing on Smackdown came close to Owens v Reigns. But the fact that its 3 hours, really hurts it. The womens 5 pack challenge, Ill admit was pretty good. I'm not gonna say a match is bad just to prove my point right like some people. I was even wrong about Becky's promo being horrible. It wasn't. It was kept short enough to be alright. Orton v Bray. I'm enjoying the interaction between these two, but I have to agree with how they book the Wyatts. From the beginning its seemed like they have no fucking clue how to handle these guys. Like WTF, it could have been so great. But their losing the crowd. The Miz and Ziggler. Another good segment. Again I'm not gonna hate just to prove myself right. The Miz is really on fire as champion. Hes improved over the past couple of years and he's forcing the WWE to keep the belt on him. Dolph is so good, its such a shame his career didn't get to Shawn Michaels level. Cause hes that good. Heath Slater still doing great. I'm just going to enjoy this while it lasts. Not everything was great though. Baron Corbin destroying Crews was fine, I get it. Corbin is getting a push. But Swagger comes out and interrupts Corbin celebrating only to just look at him and then not talk about him at all. I don't like the passing by over to the next segment thing. And Swagger sucks and has fucked up 2 pushed already. WTF. The crowd is starting to turn on Dean Ambrose. They were actually cheering Cena over him. AJ Styles definitely deserves to be champion. And hes so hot right now its probably a crime to say anything bad about him. But his mic skills are really not very good. I can look past that because hes a great wrestler, and just the fact that hes champion is crazy, but I wouldn't call him the best or anything. |
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| WWEFootos48 | Sep 16 2016, 04:40 AM Post #169 |
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God
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Your assessment is 100 percent right, but I still don't get it. I've read online that some people say they were swayed by the Austin podcast (that Cena mentioned) to look at Ambrose deeper and think "well hey, maybe good ol' Stone Cold is right since he became a champ by taking the ball and running with it in an era where the WWF just let guys do whatever instead of that jackoff Ambrose who doesn't rip up his promos right in Vince's face and lights his room on fire to prove a point" but I don't buy it. Just about every online journalist came to Ambrose's defense and I'm sure backstage most of the current roster felt the same. But that's also why Cena looks that much better to him, because his character is stale enough where he knows what he needs to do so writers and management just let him do it. There's no effing way they gave that to Ambrose especially when he was the #3 choice from The Shield. So when he starts shooting on Ambrose like he did in a way where you know he's coming from a place that isn't where normal Cena goes, even I look at him and go "shit, Cena is fucking great right now." I'm glad Ambrose got the part-timer bit in because then it kind of makes Cena look like a hypocrite for doing that same thing to The Rock for two years, but Cena coming in and shitting on one of the top faces which he's only really done with The Rock does not make Ambrose look good whatsoever so I honestly really wonder where that even came from. All that being said, I don't see why fans would outright boo Ambrose. His reign wasn't bad. It wasn't the best, but he did have some good moments (his stuff against Ziggler especially) but it seemed more like "okay our guy won but now OMGZZZZZ AJJJJJJJ!!! SO LET'S RIDE ON HIS ASS FOR THREE MONTHS THEN GET MAD BECAUSE HE IS STILL CHAMP THEN START THE WE WANT FINNNNN CHANTS UP EVEN THOUGH HE WON'T BE BACK UNTIL NEXT YEAR LOLZ GREAT IDEA!" Edited by WWEFootos48, Sep 16 2016, 04:44 AM.
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| 15 Shows | Sep 16 2016, 05:28 AM Post #170 |
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Aint cheatin aint tryin
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Hey man, I like Dean. I think hes great. But he should take his opponents a little more seriously and not be such a goof when not long ago he was the lunatic fringe. When he came falling out of that ambulance to challenge Brock Lesnar. That was great. And the wheelbarrel full of weapons was great too. He can still have fun while at the same time being crazy. But hes not anymore. Hes just acting like a goof everyweek until he decides to do one long promo before the PPV. On top of that, some of his moves are stupid. Hes gotta stop doing the kick off the turnbuckle running thing. Hes too slow for that. Hes good, hes one of the best actually. But I can see why some fans got a little bored of him. And youre right, itll happen to AJ too. As much as some people want these long title reigns, I don't know if I agree. Id say a 6-8 month reign, followed by some 2-4 month reigns until the next 6-8 month one. I think that's the way to go. 9-12 months is just too much of one guy holding the title. By the way, what did Stone Cold say on his podcast? |
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| Cybrus | Sep 16 2016, 05:28 AM Post #171 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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The stregnth of SmackDown is that if has consistently been a good show. There may be a few dud segments occassionally, but over all the show feels like time well spent. The bad is that they very rarely have an amazing segment that defines the week. I think the cena/ambrose segment came close this week, but agree that roman/owens takes this weeks highlight. Raw typically tends to be the opposite. They typically deliver one or two excellent segments, but then the overall show really drags or has a lot of filler. AJ's weakest point has always been his mic skills. He is ok and capable, but shouldnt really have long talking segments unless someone else is carrying the bulk of the promo. His best part of the promo this week was when he was leaning on the ropes, looking cool as shit while cena and ambrose talked I may have had the timing wrong by saying rhyno turns on slater during the tournament, but i still think rhyno turns on slater to end the team. Pay attention to his facial expressions when slater talks, rhyno often looks annoyed a lot of the time. The crowd is definitely turning on ambrose. It really started at SummerSlam when ambrose and ziggler put on an ok match but couldnt come close to cena/aj or even Charlotte/sasha. Aj stole the show. And then at backlash, there were noticable cheers for aj and boos for ambrose. The fans want aj right now. Ambrose probably has a heel turn coming in his near future |
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| WWEFootos48 | Sep 16 2016, 05:42 AM Post #172 |
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God
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There were points where Austin asked questions about his upbringing that made him clearly uncomfortable, but I think the main issue came at the end when Austin said he was kind of phoning it in since becoming champion and not doing things that would make him stand out, i.e. looking lazy. Which I can get as an argument because Ambrose has gotten the 50/50 treatment, but I don't think it's on Ambrose when you can clearly tell since being put on SD he was only holding the title to get it to AJ, and they weren't giving him a lot to work with. I mean, I love Ziggler, but his match going into the second biggest PPV of the year was trying to make a guy who has been jobbed longer than he's been with the company look legitimate. Most people got on Austin for that because he should have known better that WWE and its announcers constantly put him over as a lunatic but then give him promos or matches that are generic and knowing Ambrose's history and what he puts into his character, that is more WWE not wanting a full-on Brian Pillman guy as their champion but still trying to make him seem like he is. How many shirts can you put on him that says that word and how many times can JBL say "I don't want this stupid lunatic as our guy" when he's booked to do nothing even remotely crazy before someone says "well...you do realize WWE doesn't do anything that will make themselves look bad to the mainstream media right?" For example, Dean specifically mentioned being frustrated about the Lesnar match because officials and (I guess?) Lesnar all shot him down each time he came up with a creative idea because Lesnar didn't want to do anything to put himself at risk. I thought that was the most telling thing out of the whole interview because most of us thought the match was boring but didn't know why it was booked the way it was, and it just shows how much of this is actually not in his hands at all. He said he was going all out for it but he got barely any offense, and the story became shit once all the lead-up to it became moot since he didn't use any of the weapons given to him by legends as a supposed "blessing." But then Lesnar comes on TV, and beats Orton into oblivion (a finish WWE was good with) which gave their one full-time guy coming back a concussion and had him miss more shows. They would rather have it look like a "shoot" where they know Orton will be pouring blood rather than risk looking bad to sponsors and investors by maybe having some of the punches miss and Orton blades instead to prevent injury. Because we all know that if it came out that they allowed Orton to blade, everyone would freak, but if Lesnar, an MMA guy at this point who likes beating up on choreographed wrestlers on the side looks like he's doing something really hard, it's fine. That was the gist of the Ambrose thing. The fact that it was being touted as one of the biggest hardcore matches of WM history yet there wasn't even a major spot with weapons besides the F-5 made Ambrose look bad because Lesnar isn't there every week, then eventually he wins the title and gets put against guys who are good but WWE really fucked up with (Reigns, Ziggler) yet a guy like Austin expects him to step up when WWE isn't that company anymore who listens to performers wanting to be edgy...but then lets a part-time MMA guy concuss their returning main event guy on live TV. Edited by WWEFootos48, Sep 16 2016, 05:54 AM.
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| Cybrus | Sep 16 2016, 07:15 AM Post #173 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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Looking at it from Austin's perspective, wwe wasnt that company when he started either. I think it was a slow change by the company that suddenly exploded into an open air atmosphere. I can see both sides of the argument, honestly. |
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| 15 Shows | Sep 16 2016, 05:48 PM Post #174 |
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Aint cheatin aint tryin
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BTW I'm loving how back into wrestling Whosey has gotten. Its nice to come on here and wrestle chat with someone other than Cybrus and Terrible Fry. Kame and MY85 talk wrestling too, but they have 0 clue about this stuff so I don't really bother with them. Glad to have you back Whosey. |
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| Cybrus | Sep 17 2016, 12:03 AM Post #175 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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i agree. whosey is awesome. very glad to have him back as an active poster. for that matter, i am also glad shows is back as an active wrestling talker. we disagree over things and you rarely can tell when i am expressing my own opinion or playing devil's associate in order to challenge someone to explain their own opinion, but it makes for fun discussions. |
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| 15 Shows | Sep 17 2016, 12:40 AM Post #176 |
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Aint cheatin aint tryin
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I knew when you said the divas were better than 90% of the male roster you were just yanking chains. Glad its cleared up tho
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| WWEFootos48 | Sep 17 2016, 01:06 AM Post #177 |
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God
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With the hindsight narrative aside (I mean WWE-wise not you) wrestling was already getting hot. And IDC about the ECW stuff Austin did that WWE said sparked his best stuff, he was seen as HUGE in WCW with Pillman. I've watched the majority of those shows in one way or another and they were freaking hot. It wasn't for awhile that WWF saw that and was like "well let's put these two against each other and see what happens." He started as a young guy working for the Million Dollar Man and I honestly don't think he did much to change that; it was the WWF itself who was turning edgier and he took the opportunity that was given. I say that with all interviews given where he wasn't supposed to be the main event guy, Triple H was, but because he needed to take the fall for the curtain call Austin got the opportunity.
Yes to both. Honestly, I think a lot of it came from how big of a fan I was in the past, not trying to sound hipster. I was at the ROH show when Rollins (Tyler Black) won the ROH title and at the show where Owens was supposed to have his last match and told everyone instead to go fuck themselves and had a few more. Now fast forward, these guys are in the main event. Especially when meeting Owens recently and trying to get one on him jokingly by turning a John Cena action figure into a Vaudevillan it just made me jump right back in. |
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| Cybrus | Sep 17 2016, 05:47 AM Post #178 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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I still maintain that charlotte, sasha, bayley, paige, and becky are as talented or more talented than 90% of the male roster, yes. nikki, bliss, and a few others in nxt are damn good too |
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| 15 Shows | Sep 17 2016, 06:58 AM Post #179 |
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Aint cheatin aint tryin
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90%??????? I, just cant get behind that. I guess to each their own but I have to ask one question. Why do you let the sloppiness slide? I don't say their not sloppy. Almost every match has a couple slip ups and miscommunication or two. Now these are blatant ones that would not be looked the other way if it were guys. Its something you avoided in the other debate we had. So I gotta ask. |
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| Cybrus | Sep 17 2016, 12:41 PM Post #180 |
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STAY HYPED!!!
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yes you do. Miscommunication and misteps happen in a lot of matches of any company. they just happen sometimes. but i dont think they happen any more often in the womens matches than men matches. i think you like to point them out and focus on them more than with the males. and when the cruiserweights start this week, i think you will focus on their mistakes more as well, without pointing out how that style of wrestling does lend itself to more mistakes due to the quicker pace and flippy style. also, i am not just saying the aforementioned are better to 90%. i think you're over looking the "as good as" part. i am saying they are on the same level or above most of the roster. |
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8:32 AM Jul 11