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SmackDown Discussion Thread; Everything Smacked Down into one convenient thread
Topic Started: Sep 11 2015, 12:36 AM (6,782 Views)
MY85
It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
The "Cena, Cena!" chant felt genuine on the opening segment. Cena also had a strong line against Dean, and while Dean saved faced by countering Cena stating that he is a lazy partner doesn't feel as strong of a jab as Cena addressing the SCSA podcast and irony of Ambrose complaining about losing to a low blow. The opening segment was really great deapite Cena getting a title shot. Yes, I expected Cena to get into a title match, but I wish there was a better reason than "he's John Cena" or him goading AJ and Dean to get into that match.

I thought Rhyno would turn on Slater or somerhing odd would happen to prevent Heath from signing the contract. But I expect them to lose the title to the Usos at No Mercy. And if somehow Slater/Rhyno retains, they won't make it to Survivor Series as champs. But stranger things have happened at WWE, so who knows.

And while Swagger isn't someone exciting to watch (and he's luck that We The People is still a very over chant), maybe the SD writing team could do something good with him.
Edited by MY85, Sep 17 2016, 02:17 PM.
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WWEFootos48
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Agreed MY85 about the opening segment. It thought it was extremely strong and much better than the usual Shane or Bryan opening.

To get into the women's argument...I'm split down the middle. I do agree this is the most talented pool of women ever in the company, but the booking of them on Raw is atrocious. Charlotte looks better now than she ever has, but Sasha's flaws are showing, Dana has zero excitement whatsoever (though it does look like her character is starting to develop), Bayley seems like she's regressed into what she was at the beginning of NXT, Summer isn't even booked on the shows, Nia Jax keeps squashing people and honestly she's being booked as both a monster and a nice girl at the same exact time, and Alicia is just a foil to get Nia over. The Nia stuff wouldn't be as bad if it wasn't for the fact that you have Bo and Rowan competing in squashes every week as well. It's just too much and her character is not developing at all.

On SD, everyone looks good right now. Imagine if Emma comes back and joins SD that will be incredible. They're being booked great. But, and this is where I agree with Shows, they are still extremely sloppy. Naomi almost killed the Backlash match single-handedly because she fucked up that skinning the cat spot so bad. And almost every match there seems to be at least one or two spots that come off wrong and idk if it's because of their size or what, but it is way more noticeable when they do it compared to the men. Becky has it down, Nikki I think has it down but she's only been back for a few weeks, Naomi has the character and flashy moves but doesn't seem like she's very good in the ring, Carmella not really, Alexa does, and Nattie does but has no character.

So it does go both ways. I won't say that the women are better than 90 percent of the roster, but I would say that you throw me an Alexa vs. Becky match on TV and I will probably like it more than most of the other matches on the show. That is to say, the best of the women's division can absolutely match up with the best of the men's division. That's saying something when you fucking have a Styles/Cena feud going on.
Edited by WWEFootos48, Sep 17 2016, 04:40 PM.
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15 Shows
Aint cheatin aint tryin
While I agree that the current roster of women is probably the best ever, Id say that is the reason a lot of people think they are better then they actually are. And its outrageous to say that the women don't have more sloppy matches than the men. I mean now were just making stuff up. The botches are very blatant. And I cant get past it to call them the best wrestlers in the company. Theyre better than before, but still not as great as the internet claims.
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WWEFootos48
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That's where I agree with you because it is WAY more obvious when they botch. And even in a very good match, there will be 1-2 very blatant ones, like as said, the skinning the cat botch during the Backlash match. It was a good match, but that was maybe the most well-known move from the entire story.
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Cybrus
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keep in mind that i am not saying the entire women's roster is in the 90%. i have openly admitted that there are ok workers and there are flat out dead weight divas that dont belong (eva and carmella). i am specifically talking about the elite: charlotte, sasha, becky, bayley, paige, and possibly nikki. as i have said several times already, if this was the division without the weaker women, then it would easily be considered the greatest divison of all time. and they are as good as if not better than 90% of the roster. the mistakes and botches discussed arent from the girls i am actually talking about, but from fhe girls added to turn what should be 1 killer division into 2 separate divisons
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15 Shows
Aint cheatin aint tryin
Sasha botches all the time. I haven't seen enough of the other girls to say if they don't or not. I haven't seen aNY from Charlotte. Haven't seen from Becky yet. But she just flat out annoys me. And in a month or two she'll annoy you too. Nikki and Paige I've seen fuck up plenty of times. But that could be because of the talent they used to work with
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WWEFootos48
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It frustrates me to no end that Sasha was in one of the WM main event matches, looked incredible, but since then her character took a complete nosedive. Becky since then has been the face of women's wrestling even though WWE is trying to play it off saying that Sasha is 'cause she's on Raw and fighting the REAL women's champion.

What the hell happened to her? IDC what the difference between men and women are we shouldn't be getting storylines in 2016 where we gague the realness on whether she cried hard enough or not and WWE tried to pull that. I'm all for a Sasha/Charlotte feud but as of now Charlotte is looking way better than Sasha.
Edited by WWEFootos48, Sep 18 2016, 10:43 AM.
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Cybrus
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STAY HYPED!!!
15 Shows
Sep 18 2016, 07:20 AM
I haven't seen aNY from Charlotte.
Did you not watch summerslam when she dumped sasha on her head in that corner spot?
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Cybrus
Sep 18 2016, 11:31 AM
15 Shows
Sep 18 2016, 07:20 AM
I haven't seen aNY from Charlotte.
Did you not watch summerslam when she dumped sasha on her head in that corner spot?
Sasha lands like that all the time
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Cybrus
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STAY HYPED!!!
There is no way you can blame that on sasha. That spot was all on charlotte
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Cybrus
Sep 18 2016, 09:47 PM
There is no way you can blame that on sasha. That spot was all on charlotte
I just mean it seemed like it was on purpose cause Sasha always lands like that. So it didn't seem like a botch at the time. But I agree, Charlotte did botch that. So their ya go I've seen them all fuck up than lol
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WWEFootos48
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In all fairness, Sasha is known to take 1-2 bumps like that per match and it's one of the biggest criticisms of her style.
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Cybrus
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STAY HYPED!!!
Botches and missteps happen. I can find gifs of botches from orton, jericho, triple h, foley, hbk, austin....literally anyone. I dont think a botch is as important as how they handle them when they happen. Pros make it look flawless. Inferior wrestlers look lost
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Of course every great wrestler fucks up from time to time. My point is every women's match has them. Even the ones you consider great matches. My thing is I can't look past that jus5 cause their women and their better than the divas of old.
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MY85
It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
BotchaMania is where I look at botches the most. :tu:

Botches don't always include messing up wrestling moves. It can be something like Stephanie McMahon talking on her cell phone on the Raw after Owens won the title. If you pay attention, she's actually talking to her keypad. :lol:
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WWEFootos48
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And Cybrus is right, but that's the problem...most women's matches have botches where they don't know how to handle them. Even that infamous Trish/Lita match had a spot where Lita almost broke her neck going for a dive. But a lot of women in general don't have that ring awareness to realize something won't work and to either change it into something else or scrap it because going through will just make you look bad.

Sasha has also gained a reputation for being extremely reckless which is why some were fooled with her promo a few weeks ago. She takes a few bumps each match where you cringe and hope she didn't just kill herself and that isn't just my opinion but almost everyone has caught on. That's why nobody gets surprised anymore when she disappears for a few weeks at a time.
Edited by WWEFootos48, Sep 19 2016, 06:46 AM.
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Aint cheatin aint tryin
WWEFootos48
Sep 19 2016, 06:44 AM
And Cybrus is right, but that's the problem...most women's matches have botches where they don't know how to handle them. Even that infamous Trish/Lita match had a spot where Lita almost broke her neck going for a dive. But a lot of women in general don't have that ring awareness to realize something won't work and to either change it into something else or scrap it because going through will just make you look bad.

Sasha has also gained a reputation for being extremely reckless which is why some were fooled with her promo a few weeks ago. She takes a few bumps each match where you cringe and hope she didn't just kill herself and that isn't just my opinion but almost everyone has caught on. That's why nobody gets surprised anymore when she disappears for a few weeks at a time.
Exactly, even the greatest women wrestlers of all time mess up more than even the average male wrestler on todays roster. I think Lita and Trish are the 2 best ever. And even they messed up all the time.

I don't mind the big screw ups like the ones you mentioned though. It's the blatant slip ups and miscommunications each womans match contains. I can't watch those and just let them slide like todays wrestling fans seem to do. It's fine that you're enjoying the women. It's great actually. But the fact remains, they seem better than they actually are simply because of how bad they used to be.
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Cybrus
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STAY HYPED!!!
i honestly dont pay attention to botches or think they matter too much. every wrestler botches. as long as the matches continue and no one gets hurt, i dont see the issue. what i care more about is the over all performance and story the matches tell. and i stil maintain that the women i have continuously listed are as good as or better than the guys on the roster. i could even make a list of show stealing matches from these girls. and to try to write it off as "lol you only think they are good because wwe divas sucked" is absolutely absurd. these women can wrestle and wrestle damn well. again, i am not saying the entire division is great, only a specific few. you pair these girls against each other on a ppv and you have a legitimate contender for motn. thats what matters, and thats why they are great. to nitpick a few slip ups? if thats what youre paying attention to, then you do you i guess. i just hope youre micromanaging all other performances as well, though i doubt it
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Aint cheatin aint tryin
I do. That's why I hate Zack Ryder. He has those little slip ups all the time. As do the select few women you listed. And those blatant slip ups that you don't seem to notice, take away from the overall performance of a match. And it's not absurd to say you think they're better than they are because of how bad it used to be. Because that's exactly the reason. It isn't writing it off. I've went into tons of detail explaining myself why they are not great. I'm not writing anything off and I'm not only paying attention to the slip ups. I'm fully appreciative of how well Charlotte can tell a story in her matches. WrestleMania and the RAW she lost the title are good examples. But as far as the rest of the girls on ur list, they are average at best, seeming to be great because of the past divas divisions horribleness.

And when you guys are tired and annoyed by Becky in a couple months I'm coming back to this thread.
Edited by 15 Shows, Sep 19 2016, 05:11 PM.
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Cybrus
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STAY HYPED!!!
Charlotte isnt even the best one on the list. i dont know why you have a boner for her. :lol:

Quote:
 
It isn't writing it off. I've went into tons of detail explaining myself why they are not great. I'm not writing anything off and I'm not only paying attention to the slip ups.

i just went back and re-read the conversation starting from the dean ambrose/stone cold podast down, and literally the only criticism you've said has been the botches.

we have been discussing this for over a week and neither of us has changed our opinion. i think the aformentioned women are great, are as good as if not better than their male counterparts, and look forward to the many great motn contenders yet to come. you think women wrestling is over praised and think minor slip ups matter more than they do. neither of us is going to change our opinion. shall we just agree to disagree and move on? i think we shall
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Aint cheatin aint tryin
I'm not trying to change what you like or don't like. Just trying to open your eyes as to why people like them so much.

I think Charlottes ugly and I don't think she's as good as even 50% of the male roster. But she is by far the best womens wrestler in the world. Can talk on the mic, tells a great story in the ring, has that amazing moonsault. She's the best. Just wanted to make that clear
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Cybrus
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STAY HYPED!!!
How good was that opening segment between Bliss and Lynch? very good indeed. i am glad bliss is getting time to talk and work. i look forwarf to her future title reign, but dont expect it anytime soon

Miz/Ziggler delivered again. i am expecting we will get a stipulation match between these 2 at No Mercy, seeing as how Miz has now won twice with spray to the face. incidentally, does anyone remember when the model rick martel sprayed jake the snake in the face and it was a long storyline that saw jake wear a white contact and be temporairly blind? and today, ziggler gets sprayed in the face, and is basically fine after a 3 count. i dont want a blindfold match, but why use the spray to the face with no plans to sell it?

the tag team divison is incredibly shallow on both brands, but SD is at least trying a multi-layered story. Usos continue taking out Gable's knee, so these two will continue to feud. at the same time, the usos get a title rematch with slater/rhyno. rhyno continues to appeared annoyed by slater but also quickly jumped in front of slater when it looked like the Usos may make a move backstage.

Dean vs AJ next week for the title. AJ got even less tv time than owens, strange. i dont expect a title change next week, but do expect a good match and a possible Cena interference
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Cybrus
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STAY HYPED!!!
did anyone watch Talking Smack this week? it is seriously becoming a mandatory weekly viewing for me. dean ambrose cut a killer promo. why dont they let him talk more like that on smackdown instead of wearing giant foam hats and making silly faces? i wont oversell it and say it was the best promo he has ever had, but it is definitely worth watching
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_DL_
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BURN IT DOOOWWNNNNNNNN!
Dean's Talking Smack promo was awesome. The part about passing each other in the hall resonated with me because that's how I feel some times.
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I didn't really watch the opening segment on smackdown because it started really bad. But I did like Becky Lynchs little rant at the end. Of course the chase up ramp was really weird and sloppy.

Miz v Dolph was pretty good. At Backlash their match was awesome. I didn't expect it to be as good this week, but unlike at Backlash the Miz just didn't keep up with Dolph this week. Everytime I watch Dolph it makes me sad lol. He's so good.

Women's tag match was bad.

Usos match was good.

Orton v Bray segment deserves more time. Nothing to exciting their.

I'm liking Heath and Rhyno. And I'm liking heel Usos. So I have no complaint about smackdowns tag division.

Cena v Ambrose was pretty good and I enjoyed the ending.

After a couple weeks of Smackdown being much better than Raw. Raw was much better this week
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WWEFootos48
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God
This only loosely has to do with the show but I just realized Eva Marie's announcer is the same guy that did the Cryme Tyme intros. :lol:

I didn't see much of the show aside from clips, but I still can't' get into Raw as much as SD. I think the Owens/Jericho stuff and the main event picture with Owens included is the best stuff coming out of both shows, but I can't seem to find interest in anything else. On SD, I love the main event stuff going on, and find most of the other stuff interesting. SD still wins for me, but Raw to me edges out with the main event picture.
Edited by WWEFootos48, Sep 28 2016, 05:21 PM.
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That post of mine was from last weeks smackdown. Raw was much better last week. Not so much this week and I'll do a full smackdown review shortly
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WWEFootos48
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God
I just noticed that. :lol:

Fair, but I think my point overall was a generality about how I see the shows right now and not much has changed in the last month since the Raw where Owens won the title.

Also just to add, I think Miz covering Lebron's picture with one of himself is one of the best ways to get cheap local heat I've ever seen. It's up there with The Rock's promo in Toronto in 2003 and his Rock Concert in Sacramento right after.
Edited by WWEFootos48, Sep 28 2016, 05:27 PM.
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Okay so I loved that the Orton v Bray storyline actually got some time this week. It wasn't necessarily great stuff. But theyou deserved more TV time. I did like Orton standing behind Bray though. That was great. I really don't know how I feel about the rest of it.

Women's tag match was horrendous.

Another 8 man tag. It was good though. Heath is very over. Usos winning the tag titles will be great for them. They have to pull the trigger at No Mercy though. The Heath Slater love is a limited time thing.

Becky and Alexa. No complaints here. That's how you build a match. Executed well. Bravo ladies, dare I say I look forward to their No Mercy match.

Miz and Dolph. I may shit on the Miz a bit. But his talking skills are soooooo much better than they used to be. He's no longer a Chris Jericho rip off like he was back when he was main eventing. He's fucking killing it. He's a below average wrestlers, but his character and his mic skills are great at the moment. That said I love Dolph Ziggler. I think he is one of the best in the world. I didn't put him on my top 5 list because I loosely based that on accomplishments. I know Dolph has had some good accomplishments. I mean I think he's had a better career than Miz. He's a 2 time world champion, multi time i-c champ mitb winner. Yes I know very similar to Miz but Dolph has the ability to get over as a face and as a heel. Which is something I think I'd like to make a thread about soon. Anyways great segment, best part of the show. I could feel Dolphs emotion. And if he loses and goes away for a little while maybe that would be good for him.

Main event- Pretty good match. Nowhere near as good as the Backlash match but that has a lot to do with time.

I don't think either show was better this week. But I'll give the edge to Smackdown because I think they built the ppv well.

Also, Nov Shane or Bryan. Good thing or bad thing?
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WWEFootos48
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Raw drew an average of 2.46 million viewers (1.7 rating overall) while SD drew 2.34 (probably a 1.5 or a 1.6), but SD overall did beat out the third hour of Raw which only had 2.2 million.

This is my issue with all of this. Raw in the past ALWAYS had a much higher 10 p.m. hour than the first hour, with the 11 p.m. overrun causing a huge spike in the last quarter hour ratings which would always help in making the last hour that much better. What the hell happened where the last hour is consistently the lowest hour of new TV every week now?

MNF was always there, and it was even worse when it was on ABC and not ESPN. It wasn't just the debate, because this has been happening every week now. Is the three hour thing affecting it that much? I would think maybe someone would watch the first segment of the first hour, then the second hour takes the hit, then the third hour is strong with main events. Yet it isn't even close anymore. I've been noticing a 400 thousand person minimum drop between the first and third hours, and this week was closer to 850,000.
Edited by WWEFootos48, Sep 28 2016, 09:03 PM.
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