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Raw Discussion Thread; Best way to make something permanent is to make it temporary
Topic Started: Oct 5 2015, 11:06 PM (9,493 Views)
MY85
It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
The white guy beats 2 black guys and a mexican in the debut of the Cruiserweight division. That's Trumpian.
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Purple Marauder
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Stand Back! There's a Hurricane Coming Through
MY85
Sep 20 2016, 03:00 AM
The white guy beats 2 black guys and a mexican in the debut of the Cruiserweight division. That's Trumpian.
How about Brian Kendrick is the only guy in the match the average WWE fan even knew? TJ Perkins is Filipino and he is your champion.

Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.
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MY85
It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
Purple Marauder
Sep 20 2016, 03:22 AM
MY85
Sep 20 2016, 03:00 AM
The white guy beats 2 black guys and a mexican in the debut of the Cruiserweight division. That's Trumpian.
How about Brian Kendrick is the only guy in the match the average WWE fan even knew? TJ Perkins is Filipino and he is your champion.

Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.
I forgot to add the laughing emoticon or a J/K next to the phrase. :lol:

I know Kendrick is the most familiar name to the average WWE fan. The pre-match segment p.ractically gave away that he would win the match despite how great the guys looked in the ring.

Speaking of Perkins, he should have appeared today in a backstage segment or something. He didn't need to wrestle today, but it is odd not to show the brand new champion making his presence, unless he had a family emergency.
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Cybrus
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STAY HYPED!!!
open it man


i agree tj should have appeared on the show. he could have been in the ring with foley before the match, talking about his competition or talking about this sunday. :shrug:

also, how brutal was mick on the mic tonight? it is sad to say this considering his history of great promos, but he is at a point where he really does need someone else with him when talking.

i like how they are slowly incorporating flashier moves into seth's move set as he continues his face turn.

kevin owens doesnt feel like THE champion to me. he isnt the focal point of the show, doesnt appear in tons of segments throughout the show, and doesnt get those 15 minute solo openers like seth got. i am starting to wonder if he is in fact just a transitional champion and a pawn in the triple h vs seth rollins feud. i hope i am wrong.

the womens match was very good and i expect charlotte vs sasha vs bayley to be in contention with owens vs rollins and rusev vs roman as motn this sunday. bayley is a great face character. truly quirky and lovable. but sasha has always been a better heel character than face character. i doubt she will show that side of her while charlotte is the number 1 heel in the division. although reuniting charlotte and sasha would be great!

should we be getting into bo dallas again? he is getting squash wins but still has hideous ring attire. and i am not sure if this is a rebuild for him or if they are only building him up to feed to strowman or someone else. cant they just move him to SD and pair him with his brother?

does anyone care about sheamus vs cesaro? i dont
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Sir Shorty
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2012 ROYAL RUMBLE WINNER MOTHERFUCKERS!!!
Cybrus
Sep 20 2016, 05:58 AM
open it man



Why is Jericho so amazing? <3

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i agree tj should have appeared on the show. he could have been in the ring with foley before the match, talking about his competition or talking about this sunday. :shrug:

Major let down here. Wanted to see him tonight.

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also, how brutal was mick on the mic tonight? it
is sad to say this considering his history of great promos, but he is at a point where he really does need someone else with him when talking.

Very sad seeing this. I definitely agree that he needs someone with him.

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i like how they are slowly incorporating flashier moves into seth's move set as he continues his face turn.

Yeah, this is neat-o. And very entertaining.

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kevin owens doesnt feel like THE champion to me. he isnt the focal point of the show, doesnt appear in tons of segments throughout the show, and doesnt get those 15 minute solo openers like seth got. i am starting to wonder if he is in fact just a transitional champion and a pawn in the triple h vs seth rollins feud. i hope i am wrong.

I hope this isn't the case either. He has so much potential to be an amazing champ.

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the womens match was very good and i expect charlotte vs sasha vs bayley to be in contention with owens vs rollins and rusev vs roman as motn this sunday. bayley is a great face character. truly quirky and lovable. but sasha has always been a better heel character than face character. i doubt she will show that side of her while charlotte is the number 1 heel in the division. although reuniting charlotte and sasha would be great!

You can kind of sense a heel turn by Sasha coming soon. I think that'd be sweet.

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should we be getting into bo dallas again? he is getting squash wins but still has hideous ring attire. and i am not sure if this is a rebuild for him or if they are only building him up to feed to strowman or someone else. cant they just move him to SD and pair him with his brother?

I think he'd be good with his brother if booked right. But we all know WWE doesn't know how to book Bray properly.

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does anyone care about sheamus vs cesaro? i dont

I am so ready for this feud to be over with. Why do we need to see the same match 7 times? Terrible booking with two talented stars.
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15 Shows
Aint cheatin aint tryin
Raw was really good this week. First time since first Raw after the draft where the 3 hours didn't weigh on me.

Opening segment I didn't much like. Although it didn't drag, and did like that they didn't let Roman talk much. I just hate how they have Foley seem so lost just making matches for no reason other than those are the two guys he sees. Kevin Owens may not be getting 15 minute promos but he's still the man. You have to understand they have Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns on the show too and I think the top guys are all getting focused on and they're all doing a great job with the time they get. And Chris Jericho mentions Kevin Owens all the time.

Seth Rollins is having a brilliant transition from face to heel. He's not all goody good one week after the double cross. He's still being Seth Rollins. Love it.

Braun Strowman. I don't like him. But he's being built very well. The brand split really allows for them to build people through squash matches. And I like that. But no squash matches at a PPV please. Mark Henry maybe?

Womens match. Can't complain too much. Match was boring but had a good ending sequence. Not really any blatant botches. Dana Brooke sure is horrible though. Sashas facial expressions are horrendous. She needs acting classes in a bad way. And Bailey, the best thing about her is the reaction she gets from the crowd. I do like the fact that she's quirky but I question her ability to be serious when it comes to it. She has this I'm just happy to be here look and I'm going to give her the benefits of the doubt and say that's on purpose. Her wrestling skills are okay except for one big thing that ruins her for me. Her moves all look so weak. It's not believable she can hurt anyone with how she wrestles. I'll leave it at that for this week. I look forward to providing example after example and specific reason after reason as to why I'm right.

Speaking of me being right. Once again Chris Jericho is the best part of Raw. Another new thing hes added to this gimmick. His list thing was fucking hilarious. "Steals catchphrases" Lmao. The 10 man tag was good too. Enzo and Cass needed a win.

Cruiserweight match. As long as nobody claims these guys are better than 90% of the roster I won't shit on this. I didn't skip it cuz my gfs little brother likes watching the cruiserweights do their little show. But I'll be honest it was a good match. I really liked Rich Swann. Had a showmanship to him that I like to see.

Sheamus v Cesaro. Yeah people do care about this series. This match was fired and the best match of the night and the crowd was into it. They have a future title shot on the line. All 6 matches have been good, a little bit repetitive but that's okay because what they're repeating is something good. Their is an end goal at the PPV. If you're not into it, that's fine but to call it horrible booking is just so inaccurate.

Main event was once again a really good match between Owens and Reigns. Rollins got to jump off the top of the cage solidifying his face turn. Just too bad he didn't also hit that "heel" Roman Reigns lmao.

Raw was really good this week I'm sure I missed something but this is how you make a review post. Read and learn kids.

Oh yeah, Mick Foley on the mic. Yeah I mostly agree with what's been said. He was bad tonight. I wouldn't go as far as saying he needs someone to speak for him. But you guys tend to jump the gun on things. So I'll let it slide. See ya pals
Edited by 15 Shows, Sep 20 2016, 08:07 AM.
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Kame

I don't know why they didn't at least have TJ Perkins out on commentary during the four-way. I really like that Brian Kendrick won, though. He's the only heel in the cruiserweight division right now, so him putting over TJP at the upcoming PPV will establish the new champ as a strong babyface.
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15 Shows
Aint cheatin aint tryin
Raw was pretty good this week. You can tell they have a long build ahead of them heading to the next ppv. I'll do a full review tomorrow I'ms tired
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Cybrus
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i dislike how they make the ropes purple during CW matches. it feels too gimmicky for me
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Okay so I'm gonna try and remember as much as I can. Show flowed well. No Bo Dallas, Nia Jax or Titus Oneal/Darren Young. Which is actually a good thing because those are real filler segments.

Bayley- I've yet to see anything impressive out of her. Crowd is really behind her so it doesn't matter what I think. But again, her moves look weak, her promos seem shaky and timid and she seems out of place.

Reigns v Rusev- I want to be into this. But I just feel like Roman has beaten Rusev so many times already why should I be invested in this feud? Please end soon. Match was good though.

Sheamus/Cesaro- They didn't have a main roster tag team for them to face?? I love the idea of them teaming up. I question wether the fans will get behind a Sheamus face turn. But we'll see how it goes. This match was bad, even for a squash.

Charlotte/Sasha- Like I've said before, Charlotte is the best of the women on the mic. And it's not cuz I have a crush on her I think she's kinda ugly actually. But facts are facts. She's in a league of her own. And Sasha is just horrible. Omg cringe worthy when she talks.

No Sami Zaynn? ):

New Day v Club- Another win for New Day. Decent match.

Main event stuff- Well no surprise here, Chris Jericho is the Absolute BEST thing in wrestling. His face when KO corrected his spelling. This guy fucking gets it. And KO is looking great as the type of heel champion he is. Rollins still doing great on his face turn. All good stuff. I think the no Triple H thing is really dragging on though.

Oh yeah! 2 cruiserweight matches. I think it's safe to say that Rich Swann is my favorite cruiserweight. Neither match did much for me but I'm sure indy fans loved the flips and no story stuff. (:
Edited by 15 Shows, Sep 27 2016, 11:21 PM.
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WWEFootos48
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15 Shows
Sep 27 2016, 11:19 PM
Bayley- I've yet to see anything impressive out of her. Crowd is really behind her so it doesn't matter what I think. But again, her moves look weak, her promos seem shaky and timid and she seems out of place.
From what I understand, she's purposely regressed since coming to the main roster and has become more or less what she was in NXT before she became champion. I'm not sure why they did it to her and not others (Bo Dallas, Acension, Vaudevillans, et. al.), but I think they're finally learning that having people established from NXT coming up to the main roster and being in front of fans that have never seen them before makes the story and the context behind their actions completely lost.

Actually maybe it has to do with Sasha. Sasha's character was established when coming to the main roster but it has fallen flat because they put her in as a face when her character and her best work is absolutely NOT being a face. But the problem is Raw doesn't have many face women they can get behind (or any? besides Sasha and Bayley?) so they needed to do so. But by doing that you need to tweak the character which they didn't do and Sasha really seems pretty terrible right now.
Edited by WWEFootos48, Sep 27 2016, 11:26 PM.
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Cybrus
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STAY HYPED!!!
Sasha is easily the best on the current roster, not charlotte. the problem with sasha's current character work is that the "legit boss" is a heel character. but she is so good at being a heel that she was loved in nxt. and when all these characters showed up at once, she got the loudest reactions and the most love from the audience so wwe just booked her as a face. but with bayley being the lovable face now, maybe sasha can turn back heel and truly shine again. i suspect she will be women's champ again very soon, possibly at hiac.

bayley's character is the "happy go lucky, happy to be here, never backs down no matter how much i lose" girl. if you think thats a reaction to her being called up and waiting for her to "get serious", then youre going to be majorly disappointed. also, i dont think her offense looks weak at all nor is it unbelievable. like i mention in the backlash thread, if you want to see a girl that is completely unbelievable in matches and too small to seem legit, just watch Carmella. Bayley is just fine and pretty damn good at the wrestling thing.

personally, i am really looking forward to the sasha vs bayley feud that will hopefully happen as charlotte vs dana starts being an actual feud :tu:
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15 Shows
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If you actually believe that Sasha is better than Charlotte, then we are not watching the same thing. Characters aside, Charlotte carries the matches, is the least sloppy and is in another league when it comes to storyline and actual wrestling ability. That botch thing you mentioned from SummerSlam and went back and watched and it wasn't even a botch. The injury thing was a work and she missed time because of a honeymoon. I totally forgot about that when you mentioned it before in an attempt to blame Charlotte for injuring Sasha.

As for Bayley, again like I've said before she's pretty new and I haven't seen enough. I can get behind the just happy to be here thing. But her moves absolutely look weak. And let's get something straight. When it comes to predicting who's gonna make it and knowing what works, I am smarter than you. I've proven it time and time again. Not saying that to be a dick. But when we talk wrestling you sometimes tend to talk to me like I'm stupid, which I very well may be. In most topics in life, you are most likely smarter than me. But when it comes to wrestling, I know more and I've proven it. See Randy Orton. And see Mr Kennedy. We argue alot but actually like you. I mean I've known you longer than most people in my life. And I genuinely enjoy talking wrestling with you. Accept when you try and talk to me like I'm stupid to prove make it look like you're right and I'm wrong. 90% of the time that's not the case.

With that said, Bayley will never be Womens Champion.
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Cybrus
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STAY HYPED!!!
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The injury thing was a work and she missed time because of a honeymoon.

Yes, wasnt it common knowledge thay the injury wasnt serious/legit? she was only gone 2 weeks.

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totally forgot about that when you mentioned it before in an attempt to blame Charlotte for injuring Sasha.

i credited Charlotte for the spot looking so bad, and she is to blame there. i dont think i ever said she injured sasha.

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And let's get something straight. When it comes to predicting who's gonna make it and knowing what works, I am smarter than you. I've proven it time and time again. Not saying that to be a dick.

be more full of yourself why dont you. i am right sometimes, and i am wrong sometimes. you are right sometimes and youre wrong sometimes. if i remember correctly, i just scored better than you in the last kia. but, sure, feed your own ego and claim your opinion is always the rignt one. you'll find yourself talking to only yourself again, but at least you'll think youre right about everything and never be challenged to explain why you think a certain way or anything :tu:

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With that said, Bayley will never be Womens Champion.

there are 2 women titles and only a handful of girls on each brand. bayley will be a champion, unless her wwe career is somehow cut short. i dont think she will have a long reign, but she will be champion one day
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I always explain why I think something. I don't just say things like "Sasha is EASILY the best women's wrestler" without explaining why I think that and providing proof.

And I didn't want to stroke my own ego. But you're whole "I'm smarter than you so there's no way you're opinion can be right thing" called for me to remind you that I'm smarter than you when it comes to this particular thing. And you may get kia scoreso higher than me every once in awhile but I'm talking about long term predictions. I wasn't actually trying to start anything, I just didn't explain that fact very well.

Oh and the one time I participated kia for a full year I won. And I'm sure that'll be the case if I stick with it this time around and if you still tally the scores
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Cybrus
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15 Shows
Sep 28 2016, 06:15 AM
And I didn't want to stroke my own ego. But you're whole "I'm smarter than you so there's no way you're opinion can be right thing" called for me to remind you that I'm smarter than you when it comes to this particular thing.
i havent said anything close to that even once. please check your own insecurities before you read things that arent tnere. and you also gotta get over this "smarter than you" garbage. i dont think i am smarter than you and i dont think youre smarter than me. i think you often have your finger on the wwe pulse more than i do, but ultimately we are 2 wrestling fans discussing pro wrestling shows. what i would like to see isnt always what you'd like to see and vice vera. i enjoy discussing things even when my predictions are wrong. seriously, stop with all this utter nonsense, please. it isnt a competition. it is just fun to talk with a fellow fan even if we disagree :tu:
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WWEFootos48
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Cybrus
Sep 28 2016, 05:01 AM
bayley's character is the "happy go lucky, happy to be here, never backs down no matter how much i lose" girl. if you think thats a reaction to her being called up and waiting for her to "get serious", then youre going to be majorly disappointed.
In all fairness, maybe serious isn't the right word, but her NXT character especially by the end was VERY confident. Her character now is closer to what it was in the beginning of her NXT run where she seems a bit naive and is coming onto this huge show surrounded by women who she came up with but now have way more experience on the main roster.

There was one match where Corey Graves went in depth about her lack of experience and how that plays into any match she has with Charlotte because, yes, she beat her before, but Charlotte has thrived on the big stage and wrestled in front of 100k while Bayley isn't "street tested" yet.

I'm not saying any of that is bad one bit, but that type of situation is absolutely playing into her current TV character where I'm sure she will "evolve" just like she did in NXT, but right now, her promos and actions are not what they were when she was facing someone like Asuka, and that's fine, because that's her character that isn't necessarily her. It gives her room to develop which was something that affected a lot of mid-card NXT call ups because they came up with their full characters and were doing things that made no context on a show that doesn't really parallel the NXT shows.
Edited by WWEFootos48, Sep 28 2016, 02:34 PM.
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15 Shows
Aint cheatin aint tryin
Cybrus
Sep 28 2016, 07:07 AM
15 Shows
Sep 28 2016, 06:15 AM
And I didn't want to stroke my own ego. But you're whole "I'm smarter than you so there's no way you're opinion can be right thing" called for me to remind you that I'm smarter than you when it comes to this particular thing.
i havent said anything close to that even once. please check your own insecurities before you read things that arent tnere. and you also gotta get over this "smarter than you" garbage. i dont think i am smarter than you and i dont think youre smarter than me. i think you often have your finger on the wwe pulse more than i do, but ultimately we are 2 wrestling fans discussing pro wrestling shows. what i would like to see isnt always what you'd like to see and vice vera. i enjoy discussing things even when my predictions are wrong. seriously, stop with all this utter nonsense, please. it isnt a competition. it is just fun to talk with a fellow fan even if we disagree :tu:
Fair enough, although I think it's quite obvious you talk down to people sometimes when you feel you're opinion being challenged when their is nothing wrong with a healthy debate. I could see if it was 2006 15 Shows and all I had to say was "trips is best man. Ur gay" but times have changed.

Now back to more important issues. I think it's absolutely outrageous to claim Sasha Banks is the best. These girls have been on the roster for what?, we'll over a year now, yes? And in that time she has done nothing to show she is better than Charlotte. Charlotte is money each and every week. Whatever happened in NXT, happened in NXT. Doesn't matter anymore. In the WWE, she hasn't proven she is the best therefor she is not.

Tell em Whosey
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MY85
It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
Charlotte might be perceived as being better than Sasha due to character line-up (Sasha doesn't work well as a face, but neither did Charlotte) and she has an athletic look that makesher stand out better than the rest. She can be great or bad in the ring, which depends on the spots as well as her opponents.

Bayley feels devaluated to me given her recent losses in which she has taken the fall. She does have sonething that makes her special, which is a genuine connection with the fans. She could be a really great role model for girls (more than most of the current female roster for both brands) and the crowd really wants her to succeed, but taking losses won't help her cause in the eyes of those who aren't familiar with her. Like someone said before elsewhere, she'll either become the greatest WWE female wrestler of all-time or she'll fail, there's no in between with her. Raw's booking doesn't show much promise for her right now, though. But there's a money match at WM between Sasha and Bayley. And I agree with Cybrus that Bayley will be champion someday.

In NXT, I'd give the edge to Sasha. In the main roster, it's a coin toss right now between Banks and Charlotte, with Bayley as a potential top star that could top both.
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It has nothing to do with being perceived better. As I said before, characters aside. The reason I say that is because I'm giving you guys the benefit of the doubt that Sasha isn't a very good face. I doubt she's a better heel thand Charlotte given her awful mic skills buy I'll have to wait and see. But in the ring. The two have faced eachother many times. And every siNile time Charlotte has out performed her. No question. I don't know what she did in NXT. But part of me thinks you guys are basing this on looks. Honestly, I can't think of any other reason someone would think Sasha is the best. It's not the case. Say you like her better. At least that's the truth. But don't try and say she's the best womens wrestler. It's crazy
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WWEFootos48
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I agree but disagree with the Charlotte assessment. She's definitely better as a heel, but she was HATED going into WM and not with heel heat, but because she was boring and with her dad talking for her she wasn't actually showing much personality at all. The Flair heat was definitely good, but it definitely became an "oh come on yeah mention Divas revolution then have another fucked up finish because of Flair." Since Ric has been off TV though, I think Charlotte has been able to be more of herself and find more of her voice that she didn't previously have.
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Aint cheatin aint tryin
I'll be honest I didn't pay attention to the women before wrestlemania. But in that WM match Charlotte was easily the best and the reason it was one of the best matches of the night. She knows how to tell a great story. My assessment is from WM to now. She's been in a league of her own
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MY85
It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
I agree with Whosey. Pre-WM Charlotte felt handicapped due to Flair's presence and most of the heat was on him rather than Charlotte herself. And not all crowds wanna hate on Ric Flair because he's a legend/HOF and all that comes with it, but Charlotte's earlier months as champion wasn't impressive due to several tjinga that isn't entirely her fault, such as the rematch against Nikki Bella, the feud with Paige (which included a heel turn from Paige) and Ric Flair being involved at nearly all times with his daughter.

It's easier to say Charlotte is better if you only watched her after WM, but if you take a view from her early days in the main roster, the start wasn't impressive (the same goes for the others too).

And Sasha didn't had it much better in the main roster due to being pegged with Naomi and Tamina as a group, but Sasha arrived on the main roster while still being the NXT Women's Champion. Chances are, some more casual people than the usual (not saying millions) has had at least watched her title matches against Bayley in the Takeover events, which might explain why people in Raw chanted badly for Sasha to be in the Divas Title scene months before WM.

I do think WWE will want to do Sasha vs Bayley at WM for the Raw's Women title. But I doubt Charlotte would be out of the card. She could face Nia Jax. :shrug:
Edited by MY85, Sep 29 2016, 01:44 AM.
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WWEFootos48
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And to add to that, my first real actual exposure of Sasha was during the takeover matches so all I saw was a girl who was supposed to be a heel but kicked ass and loved what she did, putting on a match that could have been top 10 MOTY candidate at the time. Without any other context, she seemed amazing...then she got put in a weird faction on the main roster and she got to WM riding on the "divas revolution" moniker. A lot of her main roster run seems to run off her name value from NXT which recently has grown thin especially with her horrible promos recently.

Charlotte, on the other hand, has gone into her own and I think the best thing she ever did was drop the "four horsewomen" term in that incredible promo between her, Sasha, and Becky before WM. Now she's Charlotte, the longest running Women's champion and controls the women's division, not Charlotte, girl whose famous dad is helping her speak and steal wins for.

For Charlotte and Nia to work, I honestly think Nia should turn face. She just doesn't have a heel personality to me. The way she looks around at people, the way she walks, etc., I think she can pull off being a face better than trying to play off being a heel. As a face, she can be just as aggressive as she is now, only difference is she can do it to Charlotte and Emma instead of a jobber like Alicia. I wish they would try that. Otherwise, I'm not a huge fan of her work because her mannerisms don't seem too believable.
Edited by WWEFootos48, Sep 29 2016, 02:01 AM.
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15 Shows
Aint cheatin aint tryin
Charlotte will be in the women's championship match at Wrestlemania.
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WWEFootos48
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She will but she needs something to do until then. Nia is the best option right now. Sasha and her are burned out, she's already had something with Bayley (and you don't want to burn out all the faces just yet), all the other good women are on SD, etc.
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Cybrus
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I dont think anyone is doubting the talent of charlotte. she is damn good at the wrestling thing and is one of the reasons why the current division is the strongest it has probably ever been. she is worthy of being in any women title match at any ppv. :tu:
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15 Shows
Aint cheatin aint tryin
What I was thinking was, just to really show how invested the WWE is in the womens division. For the first time ever. A Womens Hell In A Cell match. Sure they would have to keep Sasha v Charlotte going until then. But that would be a pretty big deal. Thoughts?
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MY85
It's a fabulous new day, yes it is!
I'd be all for a Sasha/Charlotte HIAC match, but IF AND ONLY IF it signals the end of the Sasha/Charlotte feud, regardless of who wins.

If Charlotte wins, she can feud with Bayley right away. If Sasha wins, she can go against Nia Jax.

And WWE has yet to use Paige, who is still recovering from injury. But Emma is available right now, IIRC.
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WWEFootos48
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Cybrus
 
I dont think anyone is doubting the talent of charlotte. she is damn good at the wrestling thing and is one of the reasons why the current division is the strongest it has probably ever been. she is worthy of being in any women title match at any ppv.


To be fair (I feel like I've said that 10 times in 2 days now...wtf is wrong with me?) I wasn't necessarily doubting her talent, but I was definitely one who was outright questioning the decision to have her hold the belt for as long as she did/has and her winning at WM and being the first women's champion.

Yet the longer she's had it, the more I've grown on her and would rather see her on top more than practically anyone else on the Raw roster.

And I can see the match working very well. It would be weird, but absolutely it can be done and they can make it work very well. I would love even more if it main evented a PPV. Have a women's championship match main event a WWE PPV inside hell in a cell. That would be amazing.
Edited by WWEFootos48, Sep 29 2016, 07:09 PM.
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