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Lets see how smart you guys really are...
Topic Started: Nov 3 2005, 11:14 PM (1,793 Views)
+hotdogturtle
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Tangela
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a = 10, b = 2, 3a ÷ 3b = ?

5 or 20?


There's an extremely stupid and large argument going on at both LUE and LL about this. I want to see your opinions on this.
(the real answer is 5 btw)
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+bearzly
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Tangela
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5???
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+Y2JosHBK
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Bananated
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3(10) / 3(2)
30/6
5
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+Amazing Ampharos
Tangela
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you can actually make an argument:

3a/(3b) = 5

(3a/3)b = 20
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+Y2JosHBK
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Bananated
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you cant do that because there were no parenthesis in the beggingin problem, therefore you follow PEMDAS
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+Amazing Ampharos
Tangela
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but you are assuming there are effecive parenthesis around the 3b. if you typed that into a calculator, it would say 20. We as humans tend to think of coefficients being tied to variables so we'd be more inclined to say 5, but that doesn't make it nessecarily true. The problem as stated is too ambiguous to answer with certainty.
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+bearzly
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Tangela
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we learned BEDMAS (brackets =/)
I'm sure if it was on a test, we would all put 5 though.
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+Y2JosHBK
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Bananated
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its the lack of parenthesis that makes it 5

a calculator is stupid. it messes up the order of perations if you type it straigght up, the order of operations is what makes it 5 as well.

Parenthesis
Exponents
Multiply
Divide
Addition
Subtract

the calculator muliplies, divides and then multiplies again, thus its wrong.
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petrie911
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Politoed
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uh, order of operations is

parenthesis/other groupings
exponents/other functions
multiplication/division
Addition/subtratcion

there is no distinction made between division and multiplication (or addition and subtraction). so, as it is written, the answer is 20.
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+Amazing Ampharos
Tangela
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I was referring to a graphing calculator which knows order of operations. And no, there is no clear answer.
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+bearzly
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Tangela
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it could be written 3xa÷3xb
cancel the 3's, axb=20!
Gah!
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petrie911
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Politoed
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no, there is a simple answer: 20. Order of operations specifies this exactly. the only confusion is the grouping; however, there is no grouping. if they were on the top and bottom of a fraction, that would be different, but they aren't.

I think most of the confusion here is coming from the division sign. Who uses that anymore, anyway? I just write things as fractions.
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+Amazing Ampharos
Tangela
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that division sign isn't really proper math. It really depends on how it would look as a fraction.
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+Y2JosHBK
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Bananated
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3A
--
3B

this becomes because you can cancel out the threes.

A
--
B

which becomes

10
--
2

which is 5

no, there is a simple answer: 20. Order of operations specifies this exactly. the only confusion is the grouping; however, there is no grouping. if they were on the top and bottom of a fraction, that would be different, but they aren't.

I think most of the confusion here is coming from the division sign. Who uses that anymore, anyway? I just write things as fractions.


they are on top and bottom, thats what division is. division = fractoin
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petrie911
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Politoed
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exactly. I don't even know why they teach division signs anymore. I mean, even in the rare case you do need one, you can just use /

this is in reply to AA, BTW
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+bearzly
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Tangela
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3a
---
3b
cancel the 3's, a/b=5
Gah! it's 5 again.

EDIT: crap you guys post too much too fast
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petrie911
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Politoed
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Y2JosHBK
Nov 3 2005, 11:36 PM
3A
--
3B

this becomes because you can cancel out the threes.

A
--
B

which becomes

10
--
2

which is 5

no, there is a simple answer: 20. Order of operations specifies this exactly. the only confusion is the grouping; however, there is no grouping. if they were on the top and bottom of a fraction, that would be different, but they aren't.

I think most of the confusion here is coming from the division sign. Who uses that anymore, anyway? I just write things as fractions.


they are on top and bottom, thats what division is. division = fractoin

incorrect. Division signs do NOT indicate a fraction. they simply mean to divide by the number that comes next, which in this case is 3, and NOT 3*b.

To indicate a fraction, you have to either use the horizontal bar or use proper parenthesis.
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Banzo803
Tangela
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I learnt BIMDAS

Brackets
Index (to the power of)
Multiply
Division
Addition
Subtraction
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+Y2JosHBK
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Bananated
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just for fun i will do it the other way

3(10)
--
3(2)

lets cancel out the 10 and the 2 making:

3(5)
--
3

now lets split it as 15
-- = 5
3


or we can cancel the threes out simply makings 5
-- = 5
1
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+Y2JosHBK
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Bananated
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incorrect. Division signs do NOT indicate a fraction. they simply mean to divide by the number that comes next, which in this case is 3, and NOT 3*b.

To indicate a fraction, you have to either use the horizontal bar or use proper parenthesis.


no division always means your taking some number to another number, the B is part of the three since its being multiplied it is taken with the 3
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+bearzly
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Tangela
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wow this really is a stupid argument
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+Y2JosHBK
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Bananated
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finally i would like to point out the answer is in the topic post
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+Y2JosHBK
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Bananated
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i had a conversation with my college math professor today as prove that the answer is 5 and we had a good laugh at whoever said 20 ;)
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+Sir Spanky
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Less bananated than Shippou
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With no brackets the answer is 20.

However the parenthesis are obviously implied in the 3a and 3b, giving an answer of 5.

Spanky
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+Y2JosHBK
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Bananated
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its not that because of parenthesis, its because its a fraction.
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+Sir Spanky
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Less bananated than Shippou
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Ok lol, I really didn't look at it much.

Spanky
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+hotdogturtle
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Tangela
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One of the main arguments for the 20 people is that there are no implied fractions. They say that using the ÷ is different than using a fraction bar. Total idiots.
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+Y2JosHBK
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Bananated
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lol, those people might want to try taking arithmitic again.
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Magol
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yeah, they are idiots... variables (a and "b" (can't just put the letter... churns out the sunglasses...)) that are attached to a coeffecient (3) are assumed to be multiplied by that coefficient only... if the problem had meant (3a/3)b, it would have said the following 3ab/3. meaning it is (3a)/(3b)... at least, that's how we learn it in Calculus.
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+Y2JosHBK
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Bananated
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i wouldnt call them idiots as some people on this board thought it was 20 :(

and this doesnt involve any calculus, its basic algebra 1
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