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| More suggestions by NC; explanations this time | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 16 2006, 01:58 PM (853 Views) | |
| NCcyclop17 | Aug 16 2006, 01:58 PM Post #1 |
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*legend*
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I'm trying to help the pokemon that are outclassed here- 1.Shedinja- Trait 2- Pure power Ok I know aa hates putting pure power on random stuff, but this would be a cool alternative. It's attack reaches 916 with choice band, but it isn't broken because any form of damage would kill it and it has base 40 speed. It would take some really good prediction to get it in and imo it could work somewhat well with para support and maggie/porygon2. 2. Manectric- Move- Calm mind I like manectric, but don't use it because it is completely outclassed right now by jolteon for bping and electabuzz for attacking. Electabuzz got calm mind with very similar stats plus electabuzz has a MUCH better movepool than manectric. I don't think clam mind would be broken. 3. Sandslash- Move- Spikes Ok sandslash having spikes makes more logical sense than any other pokemon in the game, and it isn't broken. Right now sandslash is outclassed and needs spikes to set it apart. 4. Primeape- Move- Swords dance Just another one of those pokes who is outclassed and need something to set it apart (although hitmonlee already gets this). 5. Slowking- Move- Wish A really good support move is good for something that few people currently use and it outclassed by slowbro. 6. Ninetales- Move- Surf I know it doesn't make logical sense, but this would help ninetales in countering other fire types and give it a purpose. 7. Dewgong- Trait 2- Volt Absorb All right dewgong is hopelessly outclassed, but this will definately give it some use. It's not broken because of dewgongs somewhat crappy stats. I was goin to suggest calm mind, but this is cooler. 8. Hitmonchan- Move- Dragon dance Chan is crappy and there is no point to use him now, but this will help him get a least a little use. 9. Butterfree Moves Blizzard, Zap Cannon, Fire Blast Ok butterfree was crappy nu before this and got barely any help at all. These would help make it unique with compundeyes. 10. Aipom- Move- Extremespeed Its worse than linoone who gets it, so this shouldn't be a problem. 11. Yama- Move- Heat wave I think a special attacking version should be viable and this would help that. 12. Granbull- Move- Morning sun Ok kanga get early bird rest so this shouldn't be too different. 13. Magcargo- Trait 1- Levitate Makes no sense at all, but it makes magcargo usable and unpredictable. 14. Swellow- Move- Swords dance Just something to set it apart from the other birds because its attack is too low. 15.Luvdisc- Trait- Speed boost, Move- Leech seed I think luvdisc was made to be an annoyer and this would greatly help it in that role. And now the nerfs 1. If magneton has to lose levitate- Trait 2 - Flash Fire It would still have ground and fight weakness, but it would still be used along with porygon2, instead of nu 2. Gyarados- Illegal taunt + dragon dance I also want to nerf zapdos so this would help that 3. Blissey Trait 1- Damp Its still too good with serene grace <_< 4. Zapdos- Illegal Rest + sleep talk It really does need a nerf 5. Kangaskhan- Illegal- Bulk up, Move- Curse At least it won't be as fast... I also was thinking maybe take away early bird. 6. Tyranitar- Illegal Shadow Ball and make hidden power legal I think this ws already discussed 7. Celebi- Illegal Calm mind + Recover It needs a nerf 8. Flygon- Illegal Substitue + Swords dance see above 9. Banette- Illegal hypnosis, Move- Sing Makes it a little less annoying 10.Registell- Illegal swords dance + Meteor mash, Move- Iron Tail Still keeps it good like aa wants and it has to decide either power (iron tail) or accuracy (hp steel) 11. Milotic- Illegal Reflect + Light screen It was really good before, it didn't need these Ok those are my suggestions! |
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| osmbv tiger | Aug 16 2006, 02:51 PM Post #2 |
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Delibird
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1.Shedinja- Trait 2- Pure power As much as I want to say yes, I have to say it's broken. Sure it dies to anything, but the only thing that makes Sheddy worse than Sharpedo is death to Spikes/Sandstorm/status; they both die to any light touch. With two immunities, it's not THAT hard to get Sheddy in. This would also force Spikes to be a part of every team, leading to an indirect and totally unneeded buff to Skarmory. 2. Manectric- Move- Calm mind We've already suggested it, and IIRC AA said no. I like it though. 3. Sandslash- Move- Spikes How the hell does it NOT already have Spikes? But yeah, we already suggested this too. 4. Primeape- Move- Swords dance Primeape is faster than Hitmonlee though... I see too much abuse potential here, though it might be worth a try. 5. Slowking- Move- Wish Already suggested, and I still like it. 6. Ninetales- Move- Surf No. I could live with Bubblebeam; at least it makes SOME sense. 7. Dewgong- Trait 2- Volt Absorb I know there's something more logical we could give it that would make more sense. I just can't think of what. 8. Hitmonchan- Move- Dragon dance I've wanted this forever. 9. Butterfree Moves Blizzard, Zap Cannon, Fire Blast Oh joy. Zap Cannon goes from 50 acc to 65. I'm alright with this though. I'd rather let it rely on SG hax. 10. Aipom- Move- Extremespeed I've wanted/asked for this forever too. 11. Yanma- Move- Heat wave K. 12. Granbull- Move- Morning sun No. 13. Magcargo- Trait 1- Levitate No. 14. Swellow- Move- Swords dance No. 15.Luvdisc- Trait- Speed boost, Move- Leech seed Speed Boost yes, Leech Seed no. And now the nerfs 1. If magneton has to lose levitate- Trait 2 - Flash Fire No, makes no sense. I propose giving it Sturdy, then allowing Sheer Cold to enter the metagame without restraint. 2. Gyarados- Illegal taunt + dragon dance No. It's fine. 3. Blissey Trait 1- Damp Give Blissey Sturdy as well. 4. Zapdos- Illegal Rest + sleep talk Not much of a nerf, since hardly anyone uses RTdos. Needs to lose the screens IMO. 5. Kangaskhan- Illegal- Bulk up, Move- Curse It's already been agreed on by the populace. 6. Tyranitar- Illegal Shadow Ball and make hidden power legal I say keep HP illegal. 7. Celebi- Illegal Calm mind + Recover Not really IMO. 8. Flygon- Illegal Substitue + Swords dance see above 9. Banette- Illegal hypnosis, Move- Sing Needs to lose Sing, Hypnosis, WoW, and anything else it has that lets it disable its counters. 10.Registeel- Illegal swords dance + Meteor mash, Move- Iron Tail No, simply because it has no tail. I'd like to take away Swords Dance entirely and force it to Curse. 11. Milotic- Illegal Reflect + Light screen Agreed. |
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| +Sir Spanky | Aug 16 2006, 04:12 PM Post #3 |
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Less bananated than Shippou
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A lot of these I like very much. Kanga definitely need Curse. Flygon needs some nerf, but I do like Swords Dance. Celebi needs a nerf, but not that. I say lose Baton Pass myself, and force Celery into becoming an attacker that can heal itself perfectly. twinksby will become very popular. No for Registeel. It gets walled by a fair amount, and removing Swords Dance would be way too nasty tiger, as Curse+Rest is illegal. I think Gyarados needs some sort of nerf, but Taunt+DD seems extreme. On your additions side, I dislike Pure Power Sheddy. It would be fucking awesome, but with para support, Swords Dance Pure Power coming from a decent attack stat is just wrong. |
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Neon Twilight: thats really gay Neon Twilight: so gay Neon Twilight: gayer than bbm and spanky sex gay | |
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| osmbv tiger | Aug 16 2006, 05:35 PM Post #4 |
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Delibird
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Registeel is walled by Gyarados, Pelipper, Mantine, Zapdos, and Moltres. That's not a terribly long list. |
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| +Crunk Juice | Aug 16 2006, 07:02 PM Post #5 |
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bbm is (super) gay
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I'm trying to help the pokemon that are outclassed here- 1.Shedinja- Trait 2- Pure power Ok I know aa hates putting pure power on random stuff, but this would be a cool alternative. It's attack reaches 916 with choice band, but it isn't broken because any form of damage would kill it and it has base 40 speed. It would take some really good prediction to get it in and imo it could work somewhat well with para support and maggie/porygon2. Seriously this thing shouldnt get this. With it's nice attack para support etc, not much can switch in on it's attacks coming off of 916 attack =\ 2. Manectric- Move- Calm mind I like manectric, but don't use it because it is completely outclassed right now by jolteon for bping and electabuzz for attacking. Electabuzz got calm mind with very similar stats plus electabuzz has a MUCH better movepool than manectric. I don't think clam mind would be broken. Nothing wrong with this, kind of a mini raikou 3. Sandslash- Move- Spikes Ok sandslash having spikes makes more logical sense than any other pokemon in the game, and it isn't broken. Right now sandslash is outclassed and needs spikes to set it apart. This could make it different from Donphan, even tough it has Swords Dance. 4. Primeape- Move- Swords dance Just another one of those pokes who is outclassed and need something to set it apart (although hitmonlee already gets this). Eh, I'm not feeling this. 5. Slowking- Move- Wish A really good support move is good for something that few people currently use and it outclassed by slowbro. This sounds very nice, I see nothing wrong with it. 6. Ninetales- Move- Surf I know it doesn't make logical sense, but this would help ninetales in countering other fire types and give it a purpose. This makes no sense, i say no. But something like a better sleep move could work, such as lovely kiss maybe? 7. Dewgong- Trait 2- Volt Absorb All right dewgong is hopelessly outclassed, but this will definately give it some use. It's not broken because of dewgongs somewhat crappy stats. I was goin to suggest calm mind, but this is cooler. You can't be serious with this. Apart from not making any sense, I dont see it staying in on any electrics anyway. SLACK OFF plz. 8. Hitmonchan- Move- Dragon dance Chan is crappy and there is no point to use him now, but this will help him get a least a little use. No. 9. Butterfree Moves Blizzard, Zap Cannon, Fire Blast Ok butterfree was crappy nu before this and got barely any help at all. These would help make it unique with compundeyes. Beyond saving imo. 10. Aipom- Move- Extremespeed Its worse than linoone who gets it, so this shouldn't be a problem. Ok, but Linoone still pawns it 11. Yama- Move- Heat wave I think a special attacking version should be viable and this would help that. whatever 12. Granbull- Move- Morning sun Ok kanga get early bird rest so this shouldn't be too different. Bulk up + MS sounds way too scary for me, I say no. 13. Magcargo- Trait 1- Levitate Makes no sense at all, but it makes magcargo usable and unpredictable. Something else which is guaranteed not to be implemented, seriously aa said they have to make some sort of sense. 14. Swellow- Move- Swords dance Just something to set it apart from the other birds because its attack is too low. Superpower is cooler 15.Luvdisc- Trait- Speed boost, Move- Leech seed I think luvdisc was made to be an annoyer and this would greatly help it in that role. see tigers post And now the nerfs 1. If magneton has to lose levitate- Trait 2 - Flash Fire It would still have ground and fight weakness, but it would still be used along with porygon2, instead of nu. nah, maybe something like trace would be cool 2. Gyarados- Illegal taunt + dragon dance I also want to nerf zapdos so this would help that ive never had a problem with gyara 3. Blissey Trait 1- Damp Its still too good with serene grace <_< agreeing 4. Zapdos- Illegal Rest + sleep talk It really does need a nerf no 5. Kangaskhan- Illegal- Bulk up, Move- CurseAt least it won't be as fast... I also was thinking maybe take away early bird. idm this, but i dont care if aa does nothing to it 6. Tyranitar- Illegal Shadow Ball and make hidden power legal I think this ws already discussed k 7. Celebi- Illegal Calm mind + Recover It needs a nerf its already losing natural cure 8. Flygon- Illegal Substitue + Swords dance see above yes 9. Banette- Illegal hypnosis, Move- Sing Makes it a little less annoying what this makes no sense, dont nerf banette anyway its finally good 10.Registell- Illegal swords dance + Meteor mash, Move- Iron Tail Still keeps it good like aa wants and it has to decide either power (iron tail) or accuracy (hp steel) no tail lol, anyway idm registeel 11. Milotic- Illegal Reflect + Light screen It was really good before, it didn't need these yes |
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| +Phiddlesticks | Aug 16 2006, 07:31 PM Post #6 |
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CHIME CHIME
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| ATHFfreak | Aug 16 2006, 08:13 PM Post #7 |
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I'm close to being banned!!
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When did we decide Curse was going over Bulk Up...? |
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| +Crunk Juice | Aug 16 2006, 08:41 PM Post #8 |
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bbm is (super) gay
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its not =\ |
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| NCcyclop17 | Aug 16 2006, 09:53 PM Post #9 |
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*legend*
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This is just my opinion, but I don't like the whole "making sense" thing. Half the stuff in the game and a lot of the stuff we have doesn't make any sense so why should that prevent any new pokemon from being good? |
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| RiverShock | Aug 16 2006, 11:31 PM Post #10 |
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Spellcheck is your friend.
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Other than a few Pokemon getting Selfdestruct/Explosion *CoughMANECTRICCough*, and less than a handful other things, they all make sense. |
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| NCcyclop17 | Aug 16 2006, 11:44 PM Post #11 |
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*legend*
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No there are a lot that don't make any sense at all. |
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| RiverShock | Aug 16 2006, 11:47 PM Post #12 |
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Spellcheck is your friend.
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Oh really? Like what. Give some examples to back up your statement. The only one I can think of other than what I said before is Water Absorb on Magcargo. |
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| NCcyclop17 | Aug 17 2006, 12:51 AM Post #13 |
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*legend*
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Ok I'll put the first one I see from each generation (Note: there are hundreds more) Octillery Focus punch Fearow Bonemerang Mawile- Petal dance |
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| +Amazing Ampharos | Aug 17 2006, 01:07 AM Post #14 |
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Tangela
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Octillery could easily punch with those tentacles. Fearow tears all the meat off its prey and only leaves bones, which are handy for a bonemerang. Mawile is a very feminine Pokemon and hence likes to dance. Water evaporates on Magcargo's body and forms a layer of rock which protects him from water. His Pokedex describes this phenomina in the rain. |
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| RiverShock | Aug 17 2006, 01:26 AM Post #15 |
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Spellcheck is your friend.
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That's still not absorbing the water. Maybe Rain Dish would have suited, but not Water Absorb. |
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| NCcyclop17 | Aug 17 2006, 01:46 AM Post #16 |
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*legend*
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punch2 ( P ) tr.v. punched, punchˇing, punchˇes To hit with a sharp blow of the fist Off of dictionary.com and tentacle aren't fists. For mawile the dancing isn't the problem, the petals are. I guess I'll accept fearow, but it's iffy. |
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| NCcyclop17 | Aug 17 2006, 01:53 AM Post #17 |
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*legend*
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Also, I am not complaining that the mods don't make 100% logical sense. I think thats most of the mods are really cool and balanced and pretty much all of them are somewhat feasible. I am saying that people shouldn't reject improving UUs and NUs that are outclassed, just because it doesn't make 100% logical sense. It would help there be more standards if we allowed more iffy things like bonemerang fearow from pokes that are currently not used. |
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| +Jolteon | Aug 17 2006, 08:10 AM Post #18 |
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Army of fgts
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I thought that tentacles could slap, not punch. :/ I don't see how Fearow could throw a boomerang, myself. Petals are the problem as nc said. I do apprieciate that the mod is trying to be logical as well as balancing things out, but I really have to agree with nc. Why put the logic over balancing? |
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(21:51:38) meddle: jolteon beats sandslash (21:51:45) meddle: but both beat shuckle ^the truth
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| +Sir Spanky | Aug 17 2006, 08:56 AM Post #19 |
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Less bananated than Shippou
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I definitely agreeing with NC here. I don't give a shit if lol sumfing doesn't have a tail so i cn't hav iron tailz lololol. Neglecting balance for realism is stupid. Leik lets not play this game cos pogeymons aren't realistic/dont exist lololol Spanky |
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Neon Twilight: thats really gay Neon Twilight: so gay Neon Twilight: gayer than bbm and spanky sex gay | |
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| +Crunk Juice | Aug 17 2006, 09:40 AM Post #20 |
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bbm is (super) gay
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But seriously a pure water type absorbing lighting =\ |
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| +Jolteon | Aug 17 2006, 10:30 AM Post #21 |
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Army of fgts
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It's part ice, too, iirc. Which would make it the best boltbeam resist in the server. I'd like Slack Off more, myself. |
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(21:51:38) meddle: jolteon beats sandslash (21:51:45) meddle: but both beat shuckle ^the truth
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| osmbv tiger | Aug 17 2006, 10:33 AM Post #22 |
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Delibird
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Let's just say its horn has magical powers that can absorb electricity, thanks to some mystery of the aurora. Let's give it Thunderbolt too, while we're at it. |
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| Okashi | Aug 17 2006, 10:38 AM Post #23 |
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Edmond Dantés
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Yeah, it's horn can be some sort of lightningrod or something. |
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| +Crunk Juice | Aug 17 2006, 11:22 AM Post #24 |
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bbm is (super) gay
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Im thinking he was KIDDING anyway im pretty sure aa wont add that anyway. |
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| Okashi | Aug 17 2006, 11:54 AM Post #25 |
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Edmond Dantés
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I knew he was kidding. |
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| +Y2JosHBK | Aug 17 2006, 11:57 AM Post #26 |
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Bananated
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I agree with NC. If it means making a more balanced metagame, I say to heck with logic. I also agree with most of NC's suggestions with the exception of say pure power sheddy, and nerfing banette. |
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| +BBM | Aug 17 2006, 12:18 PM Post #27 |
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hates crunk
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Its not like hypnosis on Banette ever hits when you need it to.
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| work in progress | |
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| +Sir Spanky | Aug 17 2006, 12:34 PM Post #28 |
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Less bananated than Shippou
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People only consider Banette because it is one of the only things that takes no Damage from Kanga and can actually hurt it a lot. |
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Neon Twilight: thats really gay Neon Twilight: so gay Neon Twilight: gayer than bbm and spanky sex gay | |
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| +Crunk Juice | Aug 17 2006, 12:46 PM Post #29 |
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bbm is (super) gay
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Banette is finally good. very good actually. But it's not fucking broken :-\ |
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| osmbv tiger | Aug 17 2006, 01:02 PM Post #30 |
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Delibird
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It doesn't have to be flat out broken to be nerfed. Banette is already a powerhouse; it shouldnt have all those support moves to disable what few effective counters it has. It's the same deal as with Blissey; haxing all its effective counters is stupid. |
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