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What IF...; Could Bigfoot Be A Conspiracy Product?
Topic Started: Feb 15 2013, 09:29 PM (1,239 Views)
moregon
What'a Ham.
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Everyone is familiar with Jesse Ventura and his TV Show "Conspiracy Theory" and for the most part I've never seen anything on there with any possible relation to bigfoot, until maybe...

Decided to take a nap around noon since I'm still not 100% up to snuff from the flu. Before lying down I brought up YouTube on the computer and checked around for episodes of "Conspiracy Theory" and came across the episode from last December 2012 called, "The Manimal Conspiracy." While trying to nap I watched it and dang if I didn't get caught up into it and watched the whole thing.

It's about gene mixing of human genes with other animals, some is pretty gross but the most captivating information was rumors about humans and gorillas and chimpanzees. Especially when they brought up "Oliver" who has been mentioned a number of times over the years of being a possible "Bigfoot" because although he looked much like a chimp there were significant differences and his method of mobilization was more human than chimp. A scientist in this show claims Oliver was actually a "Humanzee" or human-chimp hybrid.

There are a few spots in the show that claim the earlier attempts, meaning back in 60s, possibly before, were human-gorilla hybrids.

Which begs the questions...

What IF...

...Patty was an early experiment that either escaped or was being monitored by scientists at the time in a remote/controlled wild environment that Patterson/Gimlin just happened to stumble across?

...the reason we don't see a lot of family groups or very young infant bigfoot is simply because they are Hybrids and raised in labs during that period of their lives?
Possibly a sterile hybrid that can not procreate so each generation has to be created in a lab setting.

The show pretty much clarifies WHY such a hybrid may be desirable and certainly makes a good case of why it would/might be developed.

If it is an experiment by the government, we become a desirable attribute by helping them keep track of them. In cases where one is claimed to have been shot, it gives them time to get it, recover the body and clean up the area before the real truth comes out.

According to the show there's SUPPOSE to be documents around verifying successfully hybrids of human-chimp births in the past since they claim as long as the birthing mother is the Chimp no laws are broken, you just can't have a human female give birth to the hybrid. Will see what I come up with.

That doesn't mean ALL Bigfoot reports have been hybrids, but maybe early reports of human-apelike creatures of the Pacific Northwest inspired scientists to try it, knowing if one was seen or escaped they could claim it was the creature sighted before, rather than being publicly criticized for performing not-so-kosher experiments in the eyes of some.


Full Episode can be viewed here, about 43 minutes in length.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAMzyJU57Y4



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keilder
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Everyone is familiar with Jesse Ventura and his TV Show "Conspiracy Theory"

Nope never heard of it. Lets be realistic anything that is true or would rock the world would never ever make TV (it would have to be done through the internet) In the UK we have something called a D Notice all newspapers and programmes know about. Simply PUT, if it gets a D notice! hey man, IT is not shown, ever!!!! locked down, door closed and thrown away. (take conspiracy to a new level over that if you wish)

As for breeding or experiments, wasn't Zana alleged to be this, and after DNA tests it turned out she or he was human? and taking the level of genetics back then, do you think it was possible?

Sorry M, I'm not buying that BS from some hoodoo programme that was allowed to be viewed. (I don't care if it was the queen of England hosting it, who BTW I wouldn't piss on if she was on fire)

Show me a body, and let me poke my finger up it's arse to check its prostate and a few other things, and I'll still be a sceptical SOB. Yeah I've seen some weird stuff...but I can somewhat explain it..........6Hz infrasound directed at the chest causing the eyes etc to vibrate and see things.....

I've seen and read far too much BS to accept this...I want to see one in person before I finally accept it.

Sorry for being brutal, but the last few months in this field have been a joke and I think it needs a reality wake up call....................
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moregon
What'a Ham.
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The show was covering other animals which have been created by sharing human DNA with their own, that are Scientific fact. Below is an article from NBC News that focuses on the research being done.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7681252/#.UR9XCaVHK3E

The show also dealt with the Possibility of some of the sheep with human cells in them being kept so close to the slaughterhouse at the same location. What would happen if one of those sheep accidentally wandered into the slaughterhouse and ended up in the human food chain?

Some points from the article...


"In the past two years, scientists have created pigs with human blood, fused rabbit eggs with human DNA and injected human stem cells to make paralyzed mice walk."

The article also addresses the Human-Chimp Hybrid Humanzee. A patent for them was filed, but turned down by the Patent Office in 2005.

"Years ago, the two applied for a patent for what they called a “humanzee,” a hypothetical — but very possible — creation that was half human and chimp.

The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office finally denied their application this year, ruling that the proposed invention was too human: Constitutional prohibitions against slavery prevents the patenting of people."

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moregon
What'a Ham.
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Just came across this article as well, written by a Jerry Bergman, Ph.D.

According to this article valid attempts to form human-ape hybrids have been carried out since the 1920s.

"In the mid 1920s, Professor Ilya Ivanov began his project, funded by the Soviet government, to hybridize humans and apes by artificial insemination. The funds for his project equaled over one million in today's dollars. Ivanov presented his human-ape hybrid experiment idea to the World Congress of Zoologists in Graz, and in 1924 he completed his first experiment in French Guinea. He first attempted to produce human male/chimpanzee female hybrids, and all three attempts failed. Ivanov also attempted to use ape males and human females to produce hybrids but was unable to complete the experiment because at least five of the women died."

http://www.icr.org/article/4593/

Whether any have ever been successful or not, would probably be hidden from the eyes of the general public. Would it really make any sense if they were still being carried out recently, if all attempts have been total failures for the last nearly 100 years?

I'm not saying any kind of direct introduction of fertilization between human and ape would work. What I would LIKE to know is just how long are things experimented with before they see the light of day outside of the research labs? If they can successfully create hybrids today, is it a new technology they only discovered in the last, at least 10 years as shown by the articles above. OR have these techniques been in use behind closed doors for the previous 10, 20 or even 30 years with limited success before being unveiled.

Pigs with at least partly human blood have been around since 1991, that's 20 years ago and how long before that had it been attempted?
Edited by moregon, Feb 16 2013, 05:43 AM.
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keilder
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I thought I'd give you the benefit and watch that link you provided but have been laughing so much I had to stop at the 5 minute mark

3:40

Mice with Human Brains - Eh? big f'n mice.....
Part Human part Rabbit - Erm okay "Here fluffy, come on boy...hop hop.."

5 min mark

A lot of people hurt the animals and a lot protect them comment and Jesse goes Ahhhhhhh in acknowledgement.

Just too damn funny...
Edited by keilder, Feb 16 2013, 03:52 PM.
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moregon
What'a Ham.
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A human-gorilla or human-chimp hybrid would answer some of the questions facing researchers today.

Why there isn't a fossil record proving the existence of such a creature.

Why there doesn't seem to be thousands and thousands which is allegedly needed to support a healthy breeding population.

Why no bodies have been recovered that died from natural causes or hit by trucks and cars.

In regards to the mice with human brains, etc. they aren't putting human brains in mice they splice the genes of human cells and mice cells making their brains more susceptible to the same diseases that affect human brains that would not be suffered by mice with just 100% genetic mice brains. This has been done for decades to research cures and treatments for human diseases. The percentage of human genes being used is becoming higher and higher, and at what point does the cell cease to be just an animal cell and become human? Pig valves have been transplanted into human hearts dating back to at least the late 60s. It takes about four weeks for modifications to be produced in the pig valves before transplanting to make them more suitable for the human recipient.

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Ty
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moregon
Feb 18 2013, 04:53 PM
A human-gorilla or human-chimp hybrid would answer some of the questions facing researchers today.

I don't know Moregon, that sounds a little too out there for me.

Regarding "Conspiracy Theory", I accidentally deleted a post before Ted's quoting a statement by Jesse Ventura: "Humanzee super soldiers...Now it all makes sense" which was in response to Alex Jones' assertion that the government (DARPA) is creating chimp/human hybrid soldiers to keep US citizens in line in case of an uprising.

Not a chance in hell....lol

Then again Ventura/Jones also collectively and respectively believe "911" and the "Sandy Hook Shooting" were false flag operations staged by the government. I don't think either are wrapped too tight.

I find it hard to believe any such chimp/human hybridization experiments resulted in living, walking creatures that would not have been immediately euthanized if even remotely successful IMO.


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keilder
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I had the same thoughts, why I added a bit of humour to the post, I find it hard to accept any such experiments were brought to term (if even successful) Do I believe any such experiments have ever been attempted? No doubt they probably have, but back in the cold war days and even further. When the world was even crazier than it is now.

You can view the below for what it's worth, not as a credible source but purely for amusement! No, I can't accept this either as it all reminds me of the Island of Dr. Moreau.

It's cool to see you back Moregan however.



EDIT: Also we have purported sightings in Russia, Australia, the USA/Canada etc., So one escaped experiment breeding (with what?) and spreading within the allowed time period of 50-90 years? It doesn't make sense as sightings go back centuries for US/Canada.

I recall reading something a while back about a Viking settlement in Labrador having possible encounters, but the Vikings loved their Sagas.
Edited by keilder, Feb 19 2013, 10:11 AM.
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Ty
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Ted
Feb 19 2013, 09:38 AM

It's cool to see you back Moregan however.

I'll echo that.
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Just Curious
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Well, obviously human/animal creatures have been created (and with full government knowledge), it's what medicine is made of. Everything I find though indicates human/ape matings didn't work. All those labs doing research are highly regulated, so I doubt there would be any escapees. I think the days of creating a living, breathing superhuman are passe with the advent of technology. Outside of science, who knows what 'experiments' might have gone on/be going on, but regardless, I doubt the mating of two subjects would create something greater than the sum of the parts - for example height/weight/strength.
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Ty
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Well said.
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moregon
What'a Ham.
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Just Curious
Feb 20 2013, 06:14 AM
I doubt the mating of two subjects would create something greater than the sum of the parts - for example height/weight/strength.



Actually not true. The Liger which is a lion for the sire and tiger for the dam, gets much larger than either species in it's pure form.

The Tiglon, tiger sire and lion dam does not.

From Wiki two famous Ligers...

"Hercules and Sinbad

Jungle Island, an interactive animal theme park in Miami, is home to a liger named Hercules, the largest non-obese liger, who is recognized by the Guinness Book of World Records as the largest living cat on Earth, weighing over 410 kg (904 lb).[9] Hercules was featured on the Today Show, Good Morning America, Anderson Cooper 360, Inside Edition and in a Maxim article in 2005, when he was only 3 years old and already weighed 408.25 kg (900 lb). Hercules is completely healthy and is expected to live a long life. The cat's breeding is said to have been a complete accident. Sinbad, another liger, was shown on the National Geographic Channel. Sinbad was reported to have the exact weight of Hercules."

African Lions normally under 550 pounds maximum.
Largest Species of tigers reportedly up to about 670 pounds.

Largest Ligers ever reported have been one verified at 1,200, another verified at 1,400 and one in Wisconsin that is still unverified claiming to be 1,600 pounds. I certainly hope he or she is in SE Wisconsin and not this far west!
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moregon
What'a Ham.
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Before anyone thinks I've gone off the deep end, I DID put this thread in the Hoaxes, Rumors and Lies section, and posted it primarily for discussion. I'm not advocating that I believe this is WHAT happened, nor am I saying it's not a possibility. None of use really knows what goes on behind the closed doors of government run labs, and too many governments in the past have carried out not-so-respectable experiments even on their own citizens.
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Ty
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moregon
Feb 25 2013, 04:31 PM
Before anyone thinks I've gone off the deep end, I DID put this thread in the Hoaxes, Rumors and Lies section, and posted it primarily for discussion. I'm not advocating that I believe this is WHAT happened, nor am I saying it's not a possibility.
I didn't think you went off the deep end Moregon and I was hoping you wouldn't take my responses that way; I should have clarified. I respect you and your opinions too much to think that.

I forgot about the Liger also, Doh ! I do find the topic of human/chimp hybridization experiments interesting though. Imagining the creature that would result, if successful and allowed to live, sure creates some disturbing mental images.





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moregon
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There's been a LOT of claims regarding the Humanzee experiments, but so far all I can find is anecdotal evidence, no actual documents. Regarding Stalin's funded experiments started in the 1920s, and now I came across more anecdotal evidence claiming there was a successful birth at the Yerkes Primate Lab in 1934 with an alleged picture of the resulting infant. That report says the infant was euthanized after six days due to fear of the repercussions of crossing a human with an ape, if the information got out.

Some things that strike me as odd about this case is:

A. I think if they euthanized something even partially human the outcry would be just as loud as crossing a human and chimp.

B. The alleged name given this alleged cross was Cornelius... also the name of one of the primary characters in the movie "Planet of the Apes" which wasn't even thought of during the 1930s.

My guess is it's a garbage report made up by a more modern source who wanted to cash in on the popularity of the Planet of the Apes series of movies, tying in a possible explanation of how those apes learned to speak.

Ty I wasn't pointing the finger at you! I meant in general for those that know me or those who might come along and start labeling me a Kool-Aid drinker! LOL

Seems like it's been extremely slow here every time I check so thought I'd try to drum up a little action for discussion.

Haven't heard a word from JC for months, so was happy to see her reply, as well as yours and Ted's, so there's still some life here. I've just been so caught up in the issues on Facebook, I haven't been paying a lot of attention to anything else for months now.

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keilder
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I'll mirror what Ty said Moregan. It's good to have you back though!
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Ty
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moregon
Feb 26 2013, 02:57 PM
Ty I wasn't pointing the finger at you! I meant in general for those that know me or those who might come along and start labeling me a Kool-Aid drinker! LOL

Didn't think you were and yes, I get it now... :D


Quote:
 
A. I think if they euthanized something even partially human the outcry would be just as loud as crossing a human and chimp.


My thoughts on that were basically the opposite. I've imagined a scientist saying something to the effect like : 'OMG...what the hell did we do ? We can't let that thing live'...lol



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moregon
What'a Ham.
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Years ago I worked for a company by the name of Enzyme Bio-Systems ltd. where we made "Enzymes." Basically it's recovering a chemical produced by microorganisms. Very interesting work, great pay, long hours, and probably one of the best jobs I've ever had. We were informed that we would be using "NEW" Genetically Engineered Microorganisms that were "GRAS" (Generally Regarded As Safe), although nobody knew for sure.

While waiting in the conference room where we were going to be getting the details of the new organism and the processes we would need to grow then recover the enzymes one of the other ops asked what was meant by Genetically Engineered, it was something new to him. So I explained some of the processes they use to genetically alter them and one of his first questions was, "but you can only do animal with animal and plant with plant right?" I try NEVER to let a lead-in-line like that pass without attempting to make a funny. So I told him that isn't the fact anymore, and they had successfully crossed a pig with a potato! "WHY would anyone want to cross a pig and a potato," he asked? I explained it was the idea of the FDA as an attempt at making people eat a healthier diet by crossing MEAT with VEGGIES and eventually FRUITS so you would only need a single item on your plate and still be guaranteed of eating a balanced diet! He kept asking me.. REALLY? I kept assuring him YES!

The meeting started, the scientists that were explaining what was meant by Genetic Engineering were getting ready to start and asked if ANYONE in the group KNEW what it was. Ray, the one I had joked about the pig and potato to, raised his hand, shaking it wildly to get called. Of course, they called on him. He started telling them about the Pig and Potato, they couldn't control themselves and started laughing out loud, and asked him WHO told him that. He turned and looked at me, and I saw everyone else's head starting to turn so I turned mine too pointing at the last guy in our line of desks.

Unfortunately it didn't work everyone knew I was the one that did it. :(
Edited by moregon, Mar 5 2013, 03:42 PM.
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Just Curious
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Now that sounds like a real snipe hunting story moregon. I can't believe the guy fell for it!
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keilder
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Excellent wind-up Moregan, one of the best I've heard in a while...Well done!! :D
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Redwolf
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:lol:

Love it Moregon, that was hilarious!
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Ty
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I agree, great story Moregon.... :lol:
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Susan
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Great story, Moregon! :lol:

Hey, I have a question..... When you cross a tiger with a lion to get a liger are they sterlie like mules? Or can they reproduce with other ligers, tigers or lions and produce offspring?

I'm curious............
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moregon
What'a Ham.
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Current information so far states that FEMALE Ligers are NOT sterile, there has been successful matings between them and male Lions creating Li-Ligers. To date all MALE Ligers have been proven to be sterile.

So the answer is YES and NO.

Just like Mules and Hinnys, MOST are sterile, but a small percentage have been proven not to be. So maybe, somewhere down the line, a Male Liger will get lucky. If it mates with a female Liger, will the offspring be the same size as them, smaller or God forbid, 3 to 4 times larger? Could we some day go to a zoo and see a 7,000 pound cat licking it's lips as we stare at it?

Mules come from Male Horse and Female Donkey...

Near 100% Sterile but some cases proven not to be

Hinny's come from Male Donkey and Female Horse

Near 100% Sterile but some cases have been proven not to be
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Susan
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Very interesting, thanks, Moregon......
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