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What IF...; Could Bigfoot Be A Conspiracy Product?
Topic Started: Feb 15 2013, 09:29 PM (1,220 Views)
keilder
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Dreams of turnips and potatoes
[ *  *  * ]
But all this is based on fact Moregan (peer reviewed papers about the liger etc.,) you're trying or at least to purport that Bigfoot an unclassified undiscovered unknown animal, shund by all scientific institutes as not existing 'may' be genetically created and hence does exist...without solid evidence - using these examples that it may.

I go back to my question, how do you explain the sightings from 100's of years ago? We didn't have electricty back then, let alone knowledge of genetics.

I'm not having ago Moregan, but how can you ignore the past and apply this theory just to the present?

I am certain 100% pre PGF the reports hold the answer to this, ignoring every BS story since.

But I can't accept and won't accept that BF is a genetic experiment..due to past sightings.

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moregon
What'a Ham.
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We have the same problem with those reported 100+ years ago, as we do today, no proof other than primarily anecdotal evidence. So we can't say for sure, with 100% certainty that what is seen today IS the same thing reported 100+ years ago.

A lot of the very early reports on N. America were reported simply as Wildmen, and from most of the reports I've read they weren't reported that much different than anyone else but usually were described as being hairy. There's a number of ethnic groups even today that traditionally have more body hair than others and some to the point where they are almost apelike. Some would have been even more so if they hadn't cut their hair nor shaved their beards if living strictly in the forests of North America. Their lifestyle would not have been that much different than those we know as Mountain Men or Frontier Men so they'd sleep under the stars and live off the land. Maybe being so hairy they simply left civilization to protect themselves from constant harassment.

Some samples online...
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000486739/polls_HairyGuy_2156_463288_poll_xlarge.jpeg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kxPG6y8Qctk/Svmka7_WIYI/AAAAAAAAPRE/XLgO202eDFw/s400/Most-Hairy-Man-In-The-World-17.jpg

http://belsinglecell.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/hairy_hairy_man11.jpg

If they had died in the woods, and their remains found, hundreds of years later they would have been classified simply as human as by that time any excessive hair would have been long gone.

The biggest issue I have with a long standing community of bigfoot (as an ape) on N. American is lack of physical evidence as far as skeletal remains. Excuses have been made since day one, including why no remains have been found of a gigantopithecus blackii along the routes that would have been taken across the Bering Land bridge is the acidity of the soil would have consumed remains, including bones long ago. There's also the issue of what would they have eaten if their diet consisted of only bamboo, as has been suggested.

In Alaska, British Columbia and Pacific Northwest there are many Peat Bogs, and peat bogs have an uncanny ability to preserve bodies as has been proven by many human bodies discovered in peat bogs in Europe. Bodies that are centuries old perfectly preserved. Is it simply because nobody has ever looked? Maybe not discovered by white men, but you would THINK at least those of the First Nations would have passed information like that down through verbal if not written history, if they had found evidence of such a body.

Even so, to me, IF what we know as bigfoot existed then and still does today, the only thing that makes sense is that it has to be much more closely related to modern man, if not a remnant species of man, than they are to primitive apes. IF it belongs to the family of man the bodies would have been buried, most likely in hidden and protected areas to protect them from being dug up by scavengers. Or the bodies would be consumed by members of their units who survived then, and likely today on at least a partially cannibalistic diet.

So when traveling the forests of North America, always bring plenty of salt, pepper and Bar-B-Q sauce just in case.
Edited by moregon, Mar 12 2013, 04:45 PM.
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Just Curious
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I agree with you moregon, we don't know that those old-time reports are of the same thing. I think it's just as likely that yesterday's wildmen were just people with mental health issues who were unkempt and hairy because of exposure to the elements.

As for bones, all we can do is speculate. It's just as realistic to say they're immortal as to conjecture other explanations. I'm not sure cannibalism is involved though or I'd think we'd be on their menu. I don't think it's unrealistic to speculate that they go off and hide when they're near death much the same as our domestic cats.
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moregon
What'a Ham.
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At least I've come across cat skulls from time to time. The Fore Tribe from near Papua New Guinea, ate the bodies of their relatives as part of their funeral service. The Fore tribe were considered to be on the level of Stone Age Tribes. There was a disease specific to the tribe known as Kuru or "Laughing Death." When scientists studied the tribe and noticed a increased number of deaths among relatives after consuming a dead loved ones, they suggested that something was being transferred during the eating of the deceased relatives. With help they were able to more or less stop the practice of eating the deceased and the disease virtually disappeared. They now believe that some of the deceased had a form of the Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD), similar to Mad Cow Disease and the prions in the brains of the deceased were what was causing the illnesses and deaths.

So we know that cannibalistic consumption of loved ones within a family unit by at least one tribe of humans was a reality. The thought of eating a human sort of makes me a bit queasy and to think of consuming someone I knew and loved at one time, is a bit much to digest... er I mean talk about!

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Just Curious
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Well, as you might suspect, cannibalism is a touchy subject around these parts...

I've been thinking about this subject this evening and this is what I'm thinking: in an urban area, there are so many squirrels, birds and mice that it's small wonder they don't run us out of town. Given how numerous those 3 species are combined, I'd expect to find a dead one/skeleton every time I take a walk, but I don't. I'm not saying that those dead things aren't ever seen, just not as frequently as you'd expect based on numbers of live specimens. So it begs the question, where are the remains and skeletons? Granted, there are other scavengers carrying them off and eating them no doubt, but why then is it so hard to accept no bigfoot bodies?
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Susan
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AKA "Fart Blossom"
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I agree with you, JC. There are animals and bacteria that exists specifically for the breaking down of the dead. If not, we'd be neck deep in dead animal bodies.....
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moregon
What'a Ham.
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Years ago, growing up I lived in a very rural area with access to thousands of acres of woodlands and hundreds of acres of water and marshy areas. Even though we were overloaded with all kinds of animals and insects etc. it was rare not to find remains of dead animals every time we went into the woods exploring. Along the marsh and lakes/creeks we were always finding everything from dead snails and snapping turtles, occasionally muskrat, beaver and deer. In the woods deer, opossums, squirrels, chipmunks, raccoons and birds.

Maybe in the city they are more visible and there's more little old ladies running around with shovels picking them up and dumping them in garbage cans?

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Just Curious
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Were you near Three Mile Island? Or was it some other toxic site? ;)
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Susan
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Moregon, you have way more experience in the woods than I do. My argument would be those animals you listed exist in much larger quantities than does our hair friend. That might explain why you saw so many more of them dead. There might be only 1-2 Big Hairys over 100-200 square miles of forest. Needle in a haystack.
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moregon
What'a Ham.
[ *  *  * ]
I'm not talking about seeing large quantities every time... GEESH! We were basically in the woods every day, all day on week-ends and after school during the week. Plus in those days we didn't have video games and we spent our time outdoors playing and exploring. We were usually riding our bicycles off-road, or our horses along the game trails in the woods, so we covered a lot of land every time we went out as well.

Depending on the time of year I can assume that when finding deer in the late fall into winter may have been deer that escaped after being shot from a hunter. Also in that part of the country there are no bear or other large predators that may have eaten the carcass. There were some coyotes but those are more often seen on open farmland and pastures around here, not in the woods. So a dead deer that dropped late fall into winter would most likely still be there in the spring, since the cold would keep it from rotting during the winter. Animals like oppossums were found along roads hit by cars and often in or near freshly plowed fields, due to being hit by farm equipment, while working the fields.

Susan, 1 to 2 Big Hairies over 100-200 square miles, at the current time, but how many generations over a long period of time? When it comes time to die they are not all going to die in the exact same spot, and the remains of all generations would be spread out across that 100 square miles. Sooner or later there should be a substantial number of remains spread out across that space and eventually being at least 1 per square mile.

With all the construction that has occurred across North American that required excavation including homes, roads, factories, railroads, canals etc. No remains have ever been found. If say generations of bigfoot lived along the Western Shores of Lake Michigan from Chicago to Milwaukee, with the population density being so dense, it's basically concrete, homes, businesses, etc. from the shore westward at least 10 miles all throughout that area, and to the best of my knowledge I've never heard of any remains being found. They have found Mammoth Remains in SE Wisconsin as well as other large prehistoric animals but nothing apelike. IF there had been some, logically at least ONE should have been found, IF their remains were allowed to just remain after death.

Maybe bones have been found but were never categorized and are sitting in a backroom at a museum somewhere. Until then we can all sit around and scratch our heads trying to figure out WHY there would be so many missing pieces to the puzzle "IF" they exist. Simply saying they "DON'T" exist because all those pieces are missing isn't a logical conclusion either. There are just too many reports of sightings from witnesses that are sound of mind, not generally prone to creating hoaxes, and present completely plausible descriptions of their experience you would expect "IF" they had an encounter with such a being.



Edited by moregon, Mar 15 2013, 12:33 PM.
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moregon
What'a Ham.
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Just Curious
Mar 15 2013, 12:54 AM
Were you near Three Mile Island? Or was it some other toxic site? ;)
Keep your eyes open when in those big cities with skyscrapers on foggy days, and wear a hard hat. All those poor little birdies flying along smashing into windows...
Edited by moregon, Mar 15 2013, 12:36 PM.
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Just Curious
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I dunno...the Old Copper Culture burial site in Oconto dates ca 4000 to 3000 BC and it wasn't discovered until 1952 despite the fact it was discovered in an abandoned gravel quarry.

I suspect that excavators/builders finding a single-body set of bones don't report it because of the potential risk to the entire project.
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Susan
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AKA "Fart Blossom"
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moregon
Mar 15 2013, 12:26 PM
I'm not talking about seeing large quantities every time... GEESH! We were basically in the woods every day, all day on week-ends and after school during the week. Plus in those days we didn't have video games and we spent our time outdoors playing and exploring. We were usually riding our bicycles off-road, or our horses along the game trails in the woods, so we covered a lot of land every time we went out as well.

Depending on the time of year I can assume that when finding deer in the late fall into winter may have been deer that escaped after being shot from a hunter. Also in that part of the country there are no bear or other large predators that may have eaten the carcass. There were some coyotes but those are more often seen on open farmland and pastures around here, not in the woods. So a dead deer that dropped late fall into winter would most likely still be there in the spring, since the cold would keep it from rotting during the winter. Animals like oppossums were found along roads hit by cars and often in or near freshly plowed fields, due to being hit by farm equipment, while working the fields.

Susan, 1 to 2 Big Hairies over 100-200 square miles, at the current time, but how many generations over a long period of time? When it comes time to die they are not all going to die in the exact same spot, and the remains of all generations would be spread out across that 100 square miles. Sooner or later there should be a substantial number of remains spread out across that space and eventually being at least 1 per square mile.

With all the construction that has occurred across North American that required excavation including homes, roads, factories, railroads, canals etc. No remains have ever been found. If say generations of bigfoot lived along the Western Shores of Lake Michigan from Chicago to Milwaukee, with the population density being so dense, it's basically concrete, homes, businesses, etc. from the shore westward at least 10 miles all throughout that area, and to the best of my knowledge I've never heard of any remains being found. They have found Mammoth Remains in SE Wisconsin as well as other large prehistoric animals but nothing apelike. IF there had been some, logically at least ONE should have been found, IF their remains were allowed to just remain after death.

Maybe bones have been found but were never categorized and are sitting in a backroom at a museum somewhere. Until then we can all sit around and scratch our heads trying to figure out WHY there would be so many missing pieces to the puzzle "IF" they exist. Simply saying they "DON'T" exist because all those pieces are missing isn't a logical conclusion either. There are just too many reports of sightings from witnesses that are sound of mind, not generally prone to creating hoaxes, and present completely plausible descriptions of their experience you would expect "IF" they had an encounter with such a being.



I give up..... I have no idea why there are never any bodies found. I tried to come up with a idea/solution but apparently I'm wrong....

Moving along.......
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moregon
What'a Ham.
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One thing we do know is that a population of Humans can live near others and never been seen. Ishi the last of the Yahi Tribe in California is an interesting example of that.

http://biography.yourdictionary.com/ishi
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Just Curious
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...moregon? Where'd you go?
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moregon
What'a Ham.
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Why? What happened?
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Just Curious
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LOL, nothing's happened, I just thought maybe you fell in the river or something. You're being too quiet.
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moregon
What'a Ham.
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Nope I haven't even been to the river yet this year. Mom is busy galavanting around, my car is dead, going to call junkyard this week to come pick it up as it will cost more to fix it than I paid for it and more than it's worth. That's the guideline when I get rid of my cars. So no car to borrow and no money coming in at least until this fall, at which time I should be fine.

I sent you some email with a question about an area you might be familiar with, in regards to some historical Sighting locations, up around where that goofy guy lived that had reported multiple sightings. That guy who is now enjoying himself at that place up the river, although I doubt he'll have as many bigfoot sightings up there. Then again you never know. By the way it appeared he had logged on to his Facebook page in August of last year, I checked and he's still checked in at that fancy resort and not back yet so no idea how he logged on. Just wondering if maybe someone else has his PW and logged on to his account.

The email has some pics taken west of Lugerville across the South Fork of the famous river in that part of the country. Still trying to figure out exactly where that property is.
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Just Curious
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After not finding that exact property myself (as you know), the thought occurred to me that you could just call the realtor and ask. They're nice folks. Just tell them you want to check out the location on Google before driving all the way up there.
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