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New & Changing Ideas; The world used to be flat...
Topic Started: Dec 28 2013, 02:01 PM (1,795 Views)
moregon
What'a Ham.
[ *  *  * ]
I'm hoping to get to Beloit College tomorrow and visit the Logan Museum of Anthropology. It seems like every time I get it planned something else comes up. Considering it's only about a mile from the house it shouldn't be an issue, but they are only open 5 hours a day. Beloit College was in charge of the 1912 dig in Lake Lawn Farm that Doberman posted the article about at the beginning of this thread. I'm hoping they'll have some records from the dig available for the public to look at, or some artifacts from the dig. I'll also have to check on their rules this time before returning with a camera for photos. According to their website they are pretty sticky about taking pictures and sharing them, and strictly forbids publishing them in any form.

Anyway I've been doing more digging... ONLINE!!! Not in the ground or in MOUNDS!!... and found that the Lake Lawn dig was only one of many digs in the State of Wisconsin, examining the contents of Indian Mounds. There are a number of other digs, in different parts of the State that also produced skeletons similar in size and abnormalities of the skulls. I've downloaded a few books and reports with many also reporting the same thing, in other States where mounds are prevalent, such as Ohio. Seems the southern states have few to no mounds.

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moregon
What'a Ham.
[ *  *  * ]
Visited the Logan Museum of Anthropology website and they had a reprint of an article written by a past director of the museum, William Green. In the article he talks about some students who were studying anthropology being allowed to dig on the college grounds, into some of the mounds there, before it was outlawed. This excerpt is from that article...

"Most mounds contained burials, the skeletons either "flexed" (on the side, knees folded toward the head) or "bundled" (the bones gathered and buried well after death). Adult individuals of both sexes, and a child were found. The remains from excavated mounds are in the Logan Museum collection, though they are not displayed."

I find it interesting as for years we were always told the mounds were NOT used for burials, but were built for some religious meaning, or as markers similar to a road sign. Maybe that was said to keep people from digging them up looking for valuable artifacts, or to keep them from disturbing those buried there? I also don't understand why they remains are still being kept by the museum, I thought all bones/remains were suppose to be returned years ago to a Native American Tribe for proper burial by their traditions.

So why not display if you have them? Out of respect? If you respected them you would have returned them to the Ho-Chunk/Winnebago or Potawatami Nation by now. Or, could it be something, not-quite-right with the skeletons that would make people ask too many questions?


Full articel can be read here, click on link for 2003 article by Bill Green.

http://www.beloit.edu/logan/mounds/
Edited by moregon, Apr 30 2014, 11:48 PM.
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Doberman
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good work.....interesting....
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moregon
What'a Ham.
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Finally made it to the museum today, and as of right now a little disappointed. The vast majority of their collection is not available for view by the general public. A lot of what is available is not pertinent to this area of the country, nor even to the US. A lot of things from South American and Mexico.

Came across two people working at the museum, neither were well informed or knowledgeable about the displays nor of Anthropology in general. Neither was studying Anthropology as a major, and to be honest I'm not so sure person number One could have spelled Anthropology had I put the question to them. So neither knew about any displays, artifacts or diaries, logs etc related to dig #1 in the early 1900s at Lake Lawn Farm near Delavan, WI.

I also asked person #2 about an unmarked display on level 2 consisting of two hand carved chairs and what may be a hand carved, slanted wooden altar. Possibly used for animal or maybe human sacrifice as there appeared to be clearly darker stained wood in the center and at the low end of the slant. They couldn't answer what it was, or its purpose... BUT... person #2 DID give me the email address for two people to contact who SHOULD know the details. I assume if they know the details about this, they might have some information about my other questions as well.

Looking over the displays I found nothing that would suggest anything other than normal sized people, or even some a little shorter than what we would consider "Normal Sized" today. On Level 2 there was a genuine human skeleton on display. Not labled so don't know from what period it came, or possibly even fairly modern. I'd guestimate the height at about 4 feet 8 or so, but with little doubt it being under 5 feet tall.

None of the clothing on display including shoes, pottery, cookware etc pointed to anything that would not, or could not be used by normal sized humans.

HOWEVER... while looking through some drawers filled with objects I did come across some points (Arrowheads and Spear heads) that DID make me wonder. In one of the drawers with these larger points was a sign that said they weren't entirely sure WHY there were some so much larger than others... "BUT" it could be they were used to present to some warriors, hunters or other tribal members as a sign of Status/Power... "OR" used for trade.

I have to ask, what good is an arrowhead or spear point that is too large to use in trade? I would think a smaller arrowhead made of better material or a better design that would produce more kills, would be of more value. In size comparison I saw some arrowheads where the normal ones being in the one to one and a half inches in length and similar in design but maybe in the four to four and a half inch in length size. Honestly a stone point tipped arrow would want to be smaller, allowing the arrow to gain more speed, be shot flatter for a longer distance producing more penetrating power at impact. You WANT the arrow to penetrate as far as possible, if not pass completely through your target. This would allow more blood to flow out of the animal and a quicker death. Arrows and spears kill by bleeding the target, not by blunt force impact. Normal Spear Points were in the three inch size and some of the big ones were close to eleven to twelve inches in length. Regular ones were between about a quarter inch in thickness while the big ones nearly three quarters of an inch thick.

Anyone using a bow capable of carrying an arrowhead three times normal thickness and length would have to be BIG. Modern bows capable of killing deer, are usually limited to a MINIMUM of 30 to 35 pound pull. That again is to shoot an arrow with a normal broadhead point, which is probably about the same weight as the small stone points. I would think a bow capable of launching an arrow with a point 3 to 4 times the size would easily have to exceed 100 pounds of pull. THAT is NOT an easy task! I hunted archery for years and used a bow with 70 pound pull at my peak. I can just about guarantee that if you are not use to shooting a bow, you won't be able to pull 70 pounds, let alone 100 pounds. Besides that how far could one throw a spear with a tip on it that weighs probably a pound plus, which would be connected to a spear shaft weighing maybe another 4 or 5 pounds? How effective would your toss be?

I'll send off the emails and see what else I can find out, maybe next week take a trip down to another museum that may have more answers about 20 miles south of me. I think their expertise is more towards dinosaurs, than the human inhabitants, but ya never know.


Forgot to mention I'm also in contact with another group in Wisconsin, whose leaders were part of the original group who investigated The Rock Lake site in Wisconsin with it's strange underwater pyramids. They might have some further information as well. Maybe I'll try to make it to this month's meeting and pick some brains there as well. NOT LITERALLY!
Edited by moregon, May 2 2014, 03:48 PM.
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moregon
What'a Ham.
[ *  *  * ]
Update 5/8/14

After reading the Newspaper Article from The New York Times, May 4, 1912 and comparing it to several websites, something stinks. It looks as if the Websites were trying to implicate that Beloit College was in charge of the dig, with statements such as this...

"The dig site at Lake Delavan was overseen by Beloit College and it included more than 200 effigy mounds that proved to be classic examples of 8th century Woodland Culture. But the enormous size of the skeletons and elongated skulls found in May 1912 did not fit very neatly into anyone's concept of a textbook standard. They were enormous. These were not average human beings."

The statement about "classic examples of 8th century Woodland Culture", was the result of a survey done by the Beloit College investigating a number of sites around the SE Portion of Wisconsin nearly 20 years EARLIER, they had nothing to do with the 1912 "DIG" carried out by the two brothers at Lake Lawn Farm.

When I wrote the email to the Beloit College I mentioned my suspicions as well and today I received a response from Dr. Bill Green, director of the Logan Museum of Anthropology located at the college. NOT the same Bill Green many of us know from the old BFF. I received a response from Dr. Green today...

"Below is the response I've been sending to people who have asked about this. You are correct in concluding that -- based on all the available evidence -- Beloit College had nothing to do with any 1912 mound excavations at Lake Delavan. And I think you're right in tracing the probable avenues of confusion and conflation that led to the rumors of college involvement."

So it looks like I'm not the ONLY ONE who has contaced the college in the past regarding the Delavan Mounds and Giants. He also gave me contacts in the Wisconsin State Historical Society, and several other regional and local Archeaology groups in Wisconsin and Northern IL for further information.

HOWEVER... all hope is not lost. I read a short essay/report I downloaded created by a Professor Cyrus Thomas entitled "Curious Customs and Strange Freaks of the Mound Builders", written in 1888. The description given in the 1912 newspaper article as far as the skeletons being buried in layers of charcoal and covered with fired clay bricks, is exactly the way Professor Thomas describes the mounds he had investigated with the skeletons being in layers of charcoal and covered with some sort of bricks. ALSO, in Professor Thomas' report,

"...above, the "altar" were two LARGE skeletons in a sitting posture, face to face, with their extended legs interlocked to the knees." I emphasized the word "LARGE", and he doesn't mention any measurments, just that the skeletons were large. That newspaper article also mentions the odd shaped skulls. Professor Thomas doesn't mention any odd shaped skulls, but, he does mention that a number of the skeletons were found with the skulls crushed. Why?

Forgot to add this link in case anyone is interested in reading the short article by Professor Thomas available to read online in the scanned page format, don't need any special reader to view it...

http://www.jstor.org/stable/658584
Edited by moregon, May 8 2014, 08:30 PM.
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moregon
What'a Ham.
[ *  *  * ]
Since the topic of "Giants" came up regarding alleged discoveries that are/were being covered up by the Smithsonian, I just came across some more information. A couple of months ago I started listening to some podcasts and rebroadcasts of radio stations available online, that I can't receive here. The entire list covers many topics including space, photography, music, politics and yes, even conspiracy theories. One I find fairly good is the "Conspiracy Theory Show" podcast and is created by 740 on the AM dial, Zoomer Radio out of, I believe, Toronto, Ontario. The shows are available to listen to online at no cost. They just posted the July 6th show tonight, and part one of the show is entitled, "BIG BURIED SECRETS: GIANT SKELETONS AND THE SMITHSONIAN"
Since this was mentioned in the above posts, I thought I'd pass the link along to anyone who may want to listen in. I haven't listened yet, planning on doing so in a few minutes.

- See more at:

http://www.zoomerradio.ca/shows/the-conspiracy-show/podcast-the-conspiracy-show/conspiracy-show-podcast-july-6th/#sthash.iJs8kzYo.dpuf
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Just Curious
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Curiosity Squared
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So did anything new or enlightening come out of the broadcast? I'm too lazy to go listen to it right now, but I'm just curious whether you think it's worth the time.

I think you know that I originally stumbled into the world of bigfootery while doing research on the Copper Culture, which includes many theories of giants among other things.
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moregon
What'a Ham.
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Nothing really new, just more rehashing and restating that the Smightsonian is involved in a cover-up, of course without any proof to substantiate the claim. I've been seeing a lot of programs on, I THINK it's H2 (History 2) on Charter Cable, an expansion of the original History Channel. Seems like most of the programs they carry on that channel are the non-mainstream science and history topics. Programs like "Ancient Aliens", "America Unearthed", and "America's Book of Secrets".

Although SOME of the programming is pretty far out there, some programs really do make some very good points and presents evidence to support the claims. If not proof, it's usually good enough to make you scratch your head and think..."Hmmmmmm".

If I remember correctly on the program, "American Unearthed" I was watching last year that got me hooked on that one. There was some excavation done by a town and they found what appeared to be a WALL buried below the surface. Everything they looked at suggested it was manmade and not a natural phenomena. So the host of the show goes in to investigate, and he's a scientist as well and documents all the samples he takes, and explains all the tests he's going to do on the samples, what to look for to decipher whether it's manmade or natural etc. So the whole episode you're sort of in suspense not knowing what it's origin is. This is something they've known about for maybe 50 or more years and all kinds of rumors suggesting it may have been built by giants, or possibly the Chinese etc etc. In the end they finally validate that it is in fact, a NATURAL phenomena and not made by man, or aliens, or anything else.

He's also investigated caves that turned out to have what looked like a little stonehenge type rock structures around the exterior. Then they discovered that at the equinox it actually played out a shadow play on the cave wall as the sun progressed it's climb. Now some evidence shows it may have been created by the Mayans, and this is in I believe in Arizona. The scientist did some more investigation and talked to some experts on the Mayans in Mexico/Central America and found out the Mayans are NOT BELEIVED to have originated in Mexico, but according to evidence found they left behind they had traveled to Mexico from somewhere NORTH of Mexico. So now they think the Mayans may have originated in Arizona and were actually a tribe of Native Americans of North America origin.

http://www.history.com/shows/h2
Edited by moregon, Jul 31 2014, 02:16 AM.
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moregon
What'a Ham.
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So I went to the site to check out some more info and saw they have an episode you can watch online from "America Unearthed". To focus of this one is "Giants of Minnesota". LOL.

Evidently some guy in Minnesota from some, what appears to be giant human bones he dug up on his property, and the scientist is going to take a look and weigh in with his opinion. Didn't see this one on TV so going to watch it online and let you know if it's worth watching.

http://www.history.com/shows/america-unearthed/videos/america-unearthed-giants-in-minnesota?m=5189717d404fa&s=All&f=1&free=false



Just finished watching it. It's good, but unfortunately they weren't able to dig the body up or view it. The State Archaeologist and a representative from a Native American Tribe sealed up the grave and won't let anyone dig it back up. A sword found nearby turned out to be one made in the mid 1800s and is not a Norse sword like they were hoping for.

The host is Scott Wolter and he's a Forensic Geologist.

The show is a good example of how it keeps you intrigued and on the edge of your seat until the very end so it's worth the watch.


Also just remembered that last season he had a show surrounding the alleged pyramids at the bottom of Lake Mills and also covered Azatlan Park up there as well.
Edited by moregon, Jul 31 2014, 03:23 AM.
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