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Sad but True
Topic Started: Jul 19 2009, 01:17 PM (252 Views)
dragonbountyhunter
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lost in thought call search and rescue
I take no credit for this information as it was sent to me through a church email group. Regardless of how this is taken and regardless of how people preceive the immigration issues this needs to be seen by more then a small group. Even if I fall into great troubles I beleive that shareing this is my duty not as a member of this board but as a tax payer of the USA


Sad but true ...

Joe Legal vs. Joe Illegal.
Here is an example of why hiring illegal aliens is not economically productive for the State of California ... (or ANYWHERE!)

You have 2 families..."Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have 2 parents, 2 children and live in California. (or ANYWHERE!)

"Joe Legal" works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with payroll taxes deducted...."Jose Illegal" also works in construction, has "NO" Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Joe Legal...$25.00 per hour x 40 hours $1000.00 per week, $52,000 per year
Now take 30% away for state federal tax, Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.
Jose Illegal...$15.00 per hour x 40 hours $600.00 per week, $31,200.00 per year.
Jose Illegal pays no taxes... Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage
$1000.00 per month, $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $19,231.00.
Jose Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for Food Stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays for food. $1,000.00 per month. $12,000.00 per year.
Joe Legal now has $ 7,231.00.
Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and Welfare.
Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,000.00 per month, $12,000.00 per year.
Joe Legal is now in the hole minus (-) $4,769.00.
Jose Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy, Jose Illegal pays rent. $500.00 per month, $6,000.00 per year.
Jose Illegal still has $25,200.00.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.
Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch.

Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

DO NOT vote/support ANY politician that supports illegal aliens...
It is PAST time to take a STAND for America and Americans!



"There are generations yet unborn, whose very lives will be shifted and shaped by the moves you make and the actions you take." -- Andy Andrews


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Lightning Wolf
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BANG BANG BABY!
AGREED

Not to mention that Jose Illegal does not also have to sign up for the draft. While Joe Legal does.
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Mattox
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Eternal Legacy
I'm glad all the mexicans we get here are legal. That sounds like quite the issue.
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Haruko
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Fooly Cooly
=0 But i have them do my lawn for 5 dollars D:
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Bowwy
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MOOGLE AWWWWAAAAYYYY!!!
Sorry, don't agree, mostly because that Jose family would NOT be paid that much which means they would NOT get health and dental care. Where is Jose getting all of this federal sponsored stuff when he's an illegal alien? I'm not seeing it.
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dragonbountyhunter
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lost in thought call search and rescue
Bowwy you are young yet I can honestly say I do for a fact know that this is more or less so we have several illegals that shop at my store and teh kids of illegals go to school at teh school where my Mother works you don't see well sorry to be blunt but open your eyes
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Mattox
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Eternal Legacy
You may want to iterate your points better if you want to convince anyone, Adam. I'm with Bowwy.
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[-Cloud-]
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Apocalypse (Lv4)
There is a major flaw in this.

I live in a place where immigrant workers boomed over the past few years because of Hurricane Katrina.

Here in southern Mississippi, you would NEVER see a Mexican or anyone of Hispanic heritage.

After Katrina, it sky rocketed to where Mexican night clubs opened up and whatnot.

Why is this?

Cheap labor.

Now, we needed this cheap labor to help rebuild:

Houses
Roofs
Fences

And all sorts of things that we needed rebuilt and cheaply. It was also done quick, paying people half the price that the locals would have charged.

Sure, it put people out of business, but that's economics.

Is it the immigrants fault for taking an opportunity or the person who presented the opportunity?

-----


Onto the flaw in your statement.

Illegal immigrants NEVER (Usually) bring their families over the boarder.

If you see an immigrant who lives alone (Or with male immigrants around their age). They are most likely illegal. Illegal immigrants do not keep their money like you suggest. They buy cards at Wal-Mart every Sunday and wire it back to their families wherever it is they live (Most likely Mexixo).

However, if you see a family of immigrants, they most likely are contracted here legally and have a right to be here. This works both ways. An old girlfriend's father worked in Mexico even though he was 100% Irish.

Why?

He was fluent in Spanish and the company he worked for contracted him there and tripled his pay to work there.

Do not assume every immigrant who works in America is illegal. Few of them actually are, it's an assumption Americans make because we're ignorant and are closed minded.

You actually portrayed this DBH. You automatically assumed Bowwy didn't know what he was talking about based on his age. That's a very close minded point of view.
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Kenny
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Meteorain (Lv3)
Obviously, nobody should support ILLEGAL immigrants. On the other hand, I am very supportive of foreign immigration in general. I mean, Australia is basically made of overseas people, y'know? Without convicts and honky-tonk travellers, we'd be nothing but loin-cloth wearing chain swinging ninnies. This is mostly due to a shortage in trades.

How many people do you know want to mow a lawn for a living, and do a fucking decent job at it? If you want to be more competitive for your job, haggle a lower wage and do it better.

If the problem is that illegal aliens don't have to pay tax, just make them legal and make them pay tax. That seems like a pretty easy fix to me. They already have a home, may as well?

Just make legal immigration easier and more 'benificial.'
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Mattox
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Eternal Legacy
The problem with that Kenny is that most countries like Australia and Canada want "the right people". For instance, it's very difficult for someone from Africa to immigrate into Canada. But when Hong Kong was being absorbed into China, guess where all the capitalist Chinese wanted to go? And guess who was more than happy to bend the rules to get them in here?
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Skyes
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Rush Assualt
I just want to note that Cloud -is- right.

Illegals rarely move across the border with their families. It's just too dangerous. They go across the border to get money for their families back home.

So don't assume every mexican person you see working construction or mowing yards is an illegal immigrant. That's just kinda pig headed.
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Haruko
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Fooly Cooly
Awww i was just trying to make a joke D:
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dragonbountyhunter
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lost in thought call search and rescue
Cloud Will as much as I wish I could so ok maybe your right I happen to know for a fact that they do bring their childern with them. Maybe some don't but some do. My mother works as an aide at an elementery school and one boy talked about the night when the river came up to his chest. So yeah I don't plan to stay in america to watch it become upper mexico.
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[-Cloud-]
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Apocalypse (Lv4)
If their child crossed the river and was illegal, then he wouldn't be attending an American School.
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Mattox
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Eternal Legacy
Yeah, how exactly would an illegal get all those benefits anyways? Why would the government be giving them all that stuff if there was no record of them?
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Takeru
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The White Mage
Dundundunnnnn.

Logic, DBH's mortal enemy.

Or is that the dictionary? Meh. :P
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Tada!
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Thoughts in Chaos
Mattox
Jul 21 2009, 10:59 PM
Yeah, how exactly would an illegal get all those benefits anyways? Why would the government be giving them all that stuff if there was no record of them?


Looking at your responses I imagine that you probably won't like what I have to say.

One example of how an Illegal can get said benefits is through the health care system, another is the fire department: in other words, they receive the benefits of services provided by the community without having to pay taxes. That puts the tax burden onto people who are citizens, and I assure you there are other ways to abuse the law.

Abuses of laws and federal programs is not the problem ~ Regardless of if it is moral or not, crossing the border into the United States without proper visas is against the law, which also has given people who do so the title of "illegal" for good reasons. This also suggests that said Illegals are criminals in the eyes of the law.

Certainly cheap labor is being provided, and I personally would like to blame the Unions for creating all of this mess, but people are being harmed. How you might ask? They provide Service to the American people after all, how are they damaging us? They aren't just harming us, they are harming legal immigrants by placing stigma upon them as well as economic pressure: You might not have noticed by Legal Immigrants are trying to feed their families too. This is not the only problem. Unsustainable population growth is sure to drain the city's resources, and where the resources of a city fail cuts must be made, and those cuts are typically services that are provided: Most commonly in the form of reduction of the police and fire department. When this happens Crime rates begin to sky rocket.

There is a reason that Lady Justice is blindfolded: She is supposed to deal out blind justice, and while you may think this is cruel, it also is something that must be done. America is not invulnerable, and cannot afford to ignore even one thing as small as Illegal immigration. After all what would happen if a terrorist entered the country illegally? It is quite possible.
Edited by Tada!, Jul 21 2009, 11:50 PM.
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Kenny
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Meteorain (Lv3)
Quote:
 
Certainly cheap labor is being provided, and I personally would like to blame the Unions for creating all of this mess, but people are being harmed. How you might ask? They provide Service to the American people after all, how are they damaging us? They aren't just harming us, they are harming legal immigrants by placing stigma upon them


Blaming your own prejudice on somebody else is ridiculous.

Quote:
 
After all what would happen if a terrorist entered the country illegally? It is quite possible.


Using immigrants as a scapegoat to another crime isn't right, just doesn't sit right with me. That's not justice. Justice is persecuting somebody for the crime they committed - not wishing-washing it with other ones. Murder and crossing the border are two different things.

This only breeds discrimination against anybody that is foreign. Americans kill Americans as well. People kill people.

Quote:
 
Unsustainable population growth is sure to drain the city's resources, and where the resources of a city fail cuts must be made, and those cuts are typically services that are provided: Most commonly in the form of reduction of the police and fire department. When this happens Crime rates begin to sky rocket.


I don't get this whole thing about crime increasing. Otherwise, I agree with everything else ya said. Illegal immigrants need to pay tax by being legal - if you give people that option, they'll take it - you won't get them going, "Aye, I no want to pay tax... so we hide underneath this random guys car seat for six hours! Yay!"
Edited by Kenny, Jul 22 2009, 07:13 AM.
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dragonbountyhunter
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lost in thought call search and rescue
Quote:
 
If their child crossed the river and was illegal, then he wouldn't be attending an American School


They do in fact go to American schools I know this to be fact because my mother works at one

Quote:
 
Yeah, how exactly would an illegal get all those benefits anyways? Why would the government be giving them all that stuff if there was no record of them?


Because the government is full of idiots they wont let people go hungry or without shelter their kids must have education so they go to our schools and since they live in our towns they get police and fire services when their kids get sick they take them to the ER and pass the bill on to the rest of us I worked at a hospital and saw this in action personally so you can’t tell me that they don’t

Quote:
 
Dundundunnnnn.

Logic, DBH's mortal enemy.


Dun dun dun

Common sense Takeru’s mortal enemy

Or was that the awareness of what goes on around him

not going to rehash all what Tada and Kenny had to say
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Takeru
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The White Mage
The kid could have been exaggerating or just outright lying about the river thing, or could have been describing something else. Fact of the matter is, you need to be a legal US resident to attend school here...or at least have a Student Visa.
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[-Cloud-]
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Apocalypse (Lv4)
When registering children for a school, they NEED to have the following:

Birth Certificate
Social Security Card

As well as certain shots to be allowed in public schools.

I know this for a fact as I'm only 2 years short of being a teacher myself.

Illegal immigrants can NOT partake in American schools.

Fact.

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Bag o Bones
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Meteorain (Lv3)
Moving on, but still on the same topic, while illegal immigration is a problem (the degree of which is up for debate), the question is how to deal with it.

If you just tell them to get out of the country, they can just as easily say no and laugh at you.

The last I heard, the total estimated number of illegal immigrants in the country outnumbers our police and military forces by at least 3 to 1.

Soooo...I don't see them leaving, and I don't see any way we can make them leave.
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dragonbountyhunter
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lost in thought call search and rescue
Fact

those documents can be purchased or forged

also fact

they do attend our schools and how many times do I have to point out that my mother works with their childern before that fact sinks in
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KurisuMurei
Doesn't particularly like the Art of Fighting, but definitely wants to be the King of Fighters.
Thus the best choice is to legalize them so that they are to contribute to all the government programs.
Edited by KurisuMurei, Jul 22 2009, 11:53 AM.
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dragonbountyhunter
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lost in thought call search and rescue
Kurisu are you suggesting that we reward them for breaking teh law? Thats like saying lets reward rapists and murders and car thiefs for breaking teh law.
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