Welcome Guest
[Log In]
[Register]
| Welcome to Lost Crisis. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently not logged in. If you are a going to register, know that we often times deny gmail accounts because bots mainly use gmail as a registration to flood the site with nasty posts. So if you register with a gmail, make sure to post as soon as possible (Just 1 or 2 posts will do) and you'll be fine. Register or Else!!!! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| [Pre-Dice]Zander Requests; Mark II | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 23 2009, 10:23 AM (1,864 Views) | |
| Takeru | Oct 26 2009, 07:14 AM Post #101 |
![]()
The White Mage
|
Nonono, it doesn't draw everything metal to him automatically. The intent is that it uses magnetism to draw attacks toward his Gauntlets. That being said, it probably doesn't need that large of a range...neither of them really do. Going with the standard Field Effect range of Spirit/10 feet will be more than enough for my intended purposes. And I had already added a 'per turn in use' MP cost for the second. :P
There. The idea behind these techniques is to draw attacks in toward where my armor will be most effective. His Adamantium Gauntlets are more effective against physical attacks, so using the magnetism to draw in metal being used against him at close range would be effective. Drawing magic toward his Crystal armor would achieve a similar effect. |
![]() |
|
| Grey | Oct 26 2009, 07:25 AM Post #102 |
|
Did you know that L's love donuts?
|
*sigh* I still say it should be resistible for the simple fact that you can resist a magnet's pull. If you hold a metal bracelet and have someone hold a magnet close to it you can hold the bracelet back and keep it from flying to the magnet. Granted this is a much larger scale but the basic theory still applies. -1/4 until a fair strength check is added.
Edited by Grey, Oct 26 2009, 07:26 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Galileo | Oct 26 2009, 07:36 AM Post #103 |
![]()
Getting too old for this shit.
|
Force Smash Description: Physics dictates that Force is equal to Mass multiplied by Acceleration. Zander takes that to a whole new level. Requirements: 100 Speed, 100 Strength Effect: Damage per melee strike is now calculated by (((Weight Carried * 26.1) * ((Speed - Weight Carried) --> (Conversion Calculation for mph to m/s^2) + Strength + Weapon Strength). Cost: None At bare minimum requirements without stat boosts, one carrying 50 weight could do more than 65k damage at no cost with this monster. How the fuck do you even consider this fair? |
![]() |
|
| Takeru | Oct 26 2009, 07:43 AM Post #104 |
![]()
The White Mage
|
Gal, I specifically told you NOT to mess with that ability because you have no comprehension whatsoever of how it is supposed to work. I only put it in here right now so I wouldn't forget about it later on. And Grey, -1/4 from normal members doesn't exist. If a staffer thinks I need to add a resistance portion I will, but since it is simply redirecting incoming attacks and I'm taking damage either way...*Shrugs* |
![]() |
|
| Tada! | Oct 26 2009, 07:52 AM Post #105 |
|
Thoughts in Chaos
|
If normal members "can't make sense" of a technique/ability is it fair to allow a member of the staff such an ability? |
![]() |
|
| Grey | Oct 26 2009, 08:19 AM Post #106 |
|
Did you know that L's love donuts?
|
1: Get off your high fucking horse Takeru, I won't put up with you for much longer. 2: Your ability should be understandable to all members, unless you plan to only RP with staffers which I get the felling you wont considering Zander will probably take part in most Sagas and at least some Epics. 3: If -1/4th's don't exist then I can get them out as much as I please. -1/4 to everything. > ] Edited by Grey, Oct 26 2009, 09:12 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Skyes | Oct 26 2009, 08:51 AM Post #107 |
|
Rush Assualt
|
Tak, they've got a point. I know exactly where you're getting this from, and even I am confused. Effect: Damage per melee strike is now calculated by (((Weight Carried * 26.1) * ((Speed - Weight Carried) --> (Conversion Calculation for mph to m/s^2) + Strength + Weapon Strength). You don't specify what the conversion calculation for mph to m/s^2 is, so you can't really tell where this damage is going. As for ANY custom, multiple staff have said in multiple threads that you have to specify exactly what things can do. You're saying "Do this complex equation" that might be a simple conversion, but is not in the effect. Put the conversion in the effect to at least give people a clue of what it does. I'm sure it lowers damage much more than we originally think. We just need to see it. I don't see even how STAFF could get this one except perhaps Cloud, but you talked with him about this for ages. Why the need for complex calculations? What's the point? AKA - If your opponent can't tell how much damage a move does without looking up complex conversions of speed to mph (from a topic they can't SEE) and then mph to m/s, the damage calculation is far too complex and not really fair, since you're the only one who can tell how much damage is done. In other words, calm down and listen to what they are saying, they are making good points. Edited by Skyes, Oct 26 2009, 08:58 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Drathmar | Oct 26 2009, 09:27 AM Post #108 |
![]()
Vampiric Bitch
|
I have to agree with Skyes on this. That and the fact that anything that takes this level of math shouldn't even be allowed to be used as a custom anyway. Your starting to get into complicated math and trying to make it to much like 'real world' physics. The math on this site is already complicated enough and a lot of members already hate how much math needs to be done for any kind of battle where stats are used as well, so adding in things like this just complicates it more and should not be allowed. Also if it's something regular members can't touch because they can no understand, as others have said you should not be allowed to request it, period. That falls under the same thing as because a normal member can't understand it they can't request it/request something similar, and therefore no one should be able to request it. Staff should not get to request things normal members cannot request at all due to lack of information. Basically I'm saying if it is information only the staff is privy to it should not be allowed to be used in requests until such information is made public. If you need a place to keep it, PM it to yourself, write it up in notepad, wordpad, word, etc and save the file, email it to yourself, etc. There are many other ways to save it besides making it a request that you say you want approved but normal members can't touch due to lack of info. |
![]() |
|
| Skyes | Oct 26 2009, 10:57 AM Post #109 |
|
Rush Assualt
|
Going from the Covvy to actually make this damn thing make SENSE, let's try to use what needs to be used. (((Weight Carried * 26.1) * ((Speed - Weight Carried) --> (Conversion Calculation for mph to m/s^2) + Strength + Weapon Strength). First we need to get Speed - Weight Carried to mph. (Speed - Weight Carried) / 5 = MPH. Easy enough from the super secret thread in the covvy that actually really has no effect on the board. I thought Cloud actually said that that thread was just for fun and not actually to be used. Either way. .4470 MPH to 1 meter per second. Viola, we have converted. Now to convert MPH to acceleration... Ohh.... And we have hit a snag already in your calculation. We now have SPEED and we need to convert it to acceleration (m/s ^ 2) if we want to use your formula. In order to do that we need to do meters per second per second. Which we can't do as there is no function of time within your equation. m/s from mph is fine as we assume the ratio of hour to second, however we cannot assume the ratio of the seconds as we don't know the seconds. We could always do (Final Speed - Original Speed) / Entire time, but then there is that nice time variable again. So we're tossing out the m/s^2 as there is no way to go from speed (mph or m/s) to acceleration without more variables. We'll just keep it at m/s and use speed as the variable (which already messes things up). So we have : (((Weight Carried * 26.1) * (((Speed - Weight Carried)/5) * .4470) + Strength + Weapon Strength) Let's go for 100 speed and 50 weight! Rather low comparatively. (50 * 26.1) = 1305 (100 - 50) / 5 = 10 * .4470 = 4.47 Around 4,500 damage. That's still pretty insane for no cost. But it's also a relatively high weight. (25 * 26.1) = 625.5 (100 - 25) / 5 = 15 * .4470 = 6.705 Around 4,200 damage. Still insanely high for something with no cost, and the 25 weight is actually pretty low. Let's get even lower. (10 * 26.1) = 261 (100 - 10) / 5 = 18 * .4470 = 8.046 2,100 damage. Okay, still pretty damn high, and that's with only 10 weight. And that's per NORMAL melee strike. Unless the conversion ratio is like /100 (aka t = 100 if you decide to actually get acceleration in there somehow), that's too high too high too high. You're going off of what you assume the physics of FF7 to be. That doesn't fit in with a system that has no consideration for that. Plus the fact that this entire custom is based off of acceleration, which is impossible to determine from simply speed as acceleration is speed over time, and there is no way to determine time unless you want to specify that one for us. Also there is the basic fact that this is assuming that you are going full speed with your strike. If you want to use physics, you're gonna have to use physics and determine the speed of every strike and apply it to this formula every time differently. The acceleration per strike will change drastically, plus the time to land a strike will as well, it's just a big old mess. All I'm saying is that if you bring complex variables in to this, it will be a calculator fest every single time you have a thread with someone .You determine how fast your moving, how much momentum is moved to your weapon, the speed at which your weapon travels, the time it took for the weapon to travel, the displaced force, the angle of force, potential energy vs realized energy, etc. etc. Also your custom is going off of the idea that force = damage to a 1:1 ratio. Might be problems stemming from that. Physics is NOT meant to be brought in to a game like this the way you're using it. If I'm wrong, please correct me, but that was going off of what only staff could see and the variables you gave everyone. And that took me 20 minutes to reason out, look up formulas, try and get the right info for and make sure that speed could not be converted to acceleration without extra variables. Edited by Skyes, Oct 26 2009, 11:10 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| [-Cloud-] | Oct 26 2009, 11:18 AM Post #110 |
![]()
Apocalypse (Lv4)
|
I do have to agree that it is a bit unfair that only a few can understand it. The theory may be correct and you may have math to back it up, but it's also a tad bit complicated. It was humorous when we were doing to math last night, but in a fairness aspect, it's a bit over-powered and unfair to your opponent. But for everyone else, I'll break it down into the theory without any math. What the ability states is that it's following Physics where Speed increases the force, thus the damage of blows. However, when Damage is calculated, Speed is already taken into a factor. So in a sense, it's already done since it isn't always Strength = Damage. It's multiple factors that equal damage. But Tak, KISS method pl0x. I'm fine with you trying to have Speed increase damage SOME, but by the amount and complexity this Ability would do it for every hit for free is a bit out there. I'd be completely fine with Increasing your Strength stat by 20% of your Speed stat after Weight reductions. I'd approve that with no problem. I don't however feel comfortable approving that ability and I doubt any other staff member will either. |
![]() |
|
| KurisuMurei | Oct 26 2009, 11:41 AM Post #111 |
|
Doesn't particularly like the Art of Fighting, but definitely wants to be the King of Fighters.
|
THIS is what happens when you try to bring logic into a fantasy land. Flame wars a go-go, baby! With that said, maybe I should just get rid of a few of my own non-KISS-compliant requests. |
![]() |
|
| Gin | Oct 26 2009, 08:38 PM Post #112 |
|
Ikorose, Shinsou
|
Kyosuke has around 70 weight on him :x. That being said what did I say in the Advent Topic about logic =D? |
![]() |
|
| Takeru | Oct 26 2009, 09:20 PM Post #113 |
![]()
The White Mage
|
Wow. Way to take something I said and blow it WAY the fuck out of proportion. When I said Gal wouldn't understand it, I meant that he wouldn't understand it YET because not all of the information was available to him. And Skyes, I ran into the same problem with the conversion, until I decided to instead offer up a simple explanation. While it is indeed based off of real world physics, such a straight conversion cannot be done linearly because of the complication of time. But since this IS Final Fantasy, I figured I'd explain away that tiny detail with "it's Magic". But since everyone wants to know by methodology, and so I can prove that Skyes didn't quite calculate it the way I did, let me go step by step. Assuming Zander is at base everything, he has 100 Speed, 100 Strength, and carries 60 Weight. Via a long series of calculations that I'm only going to go into if absolutely necessary, Cloud and I determined that one pound on the Plant is equal to 26.1 grams instead of the Terran 453.6 grams. Keep that in mind. We also determined that every five points in Speed was equal to 1 mph. 100 Speed - 60 Weight = 40 Speed 40/5 = 8 mph 8/60 = 0.133333 miles/minute 0.133333/60 = 0.002222 miles/second --- Here comes the research portion. I went to WolframAlpha and typed in 'convert 0.00222 miles/second into meters/second'. The result was 3.576 meters/second. Let us continue. --- 3.576/60 = 0.0596 meters per second per second, or m/s^2 This gives us a theoretical acceleration of 0.0596 m/s^2. Remember how we said one pound on the Planet is equal to 26.1 grams? Well Cloud has stated numerous times that an average Materia has a Weight of 1 pound. 60 Weight * 26.1 = 1566 grams 1566 g * 0.0596 m/s^2 = 93.3336 Thus, the damage increase to a melee strike would be 93. When combined with the 100 Strength and the 40 Durability of his Adamantium Gauntlets, he would be able to deliver a full-power punch at base stats of 233 damage. So THAT is my math. Is it flawed? Somewhat, but only by necessity. Now let's move on to the crux of the matter. I PUT THIS UP AS AN IDEA. Did I honestly expect this to be accepted as it was? Fuck no. I was completely ready to add in a recoil where half of the damage delivered per strike was brought right back into Zander, and I was tossing around an idea where a static amount of MP (non-reducible) would be required per turn in order to prevent his muscles from shredding like tissue paper. I was also ready for people to tell me that it was too complicated, in which case I would have said "Yeah, you're probably right" and given up on it like I did with the Magic Restricting Cuffs and a number of other admittedly far-fetched request ideas I've had. But instead of giving me time to work out the bugs and kinks and get some baseline opinions on it, you all jumped on it like I was trying to eat an infant's innards, piss on a flag and defecate on your very souls all at once. Really, guys? Come on. I put up a request, and it turns out that it is more complicated than anyone wants to deal with. Fine, I get that. Hell, Will had access to step-by-step instructions of how I reached my answer and STILL didn't get the answers that I did. So this will either go back to the drawing board or be scrapped entirely. Whatever. But every single one of you that just complained and wrote entire fucking dissertations about why I'm apparently the demonic love-child of Satan, Judas and Osama bin Laden need to chill the hell out and evaluate why you got so worked up in the first place. (And yes, I am aware that I myself have written an exceedingly long post in defense of myself. Since this was a defense instead of an attack though, I think it can be overlooked.) Edited by Takeru, Oct 26 2009, 09:20 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Gin | Oct 26 2009, 09:32 PM Post #114 |
|
Ikorose, Shinsou
|
I would like to point out all I said was that it was ironic how I said we shouldn't bring logic into Final Fantasy and when it was people complained....that and how Kyosuke is heavy as hell. |
![]() |
|
| Skyes | Oct 26 2009, 09:57 PM Post #115 |
|
Rush Assualt
|
And now it makes much more sense, as the dividing by 60 removes a huge portion of stuff. I figured you'd be doing as much, but it was eluding me, since it'd just be meter per 1/60 of a second and that didn't make sense to the literalist in me. If you want to go with the "it's magic" but, just simplify it for the rest and don't use the magic just on the meter/second > meter/second^2 and just do it for the entire thing. It works better. Anyway, regardless, I wasn't making out a dissertation that you were the spawn of Satan. I was just saying that it was overly complex and even I couldn't make heads or tails of it, so it really wasn't fair to a normal member, many of which -aren't- working on a college degree and have taken physics. I was also just saying that if you want a move, making it so complex is a disservice and really not necessary. It made everyone who faced Matt in NSL's life a living hell, so maybe just KISS it. Edited by Skyes, Oct 26 2009, 10:01 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Bowwy | Oct 27 2009, 05:48 PM Post #116 |
![]()
MOOGLE AWWWWAAAAYYYY!!!
|
Did you ever just say to yourself, "Hey, this is ball bustingly complicated?" <__< |
![]() |
|
| Takeru | Oct 27 2009, 08:35 PM Post #117 |
![]()
The White Mage
|
I did, actually. I said something to Cloud along the lines of "I won't need to worry about anyone making a knock-off of this because all of the math would make it way too much of a hassle." :P |
![]() |
|
| Bowwy | Oct 27 2009, 08:36 PM Post #118 |
![]()
MOOGLE AWWWWAAAAYYYY!!!
|
oh, but you do have to worry about us saying "no, this is too complicated". |
![]() |
|
| Takeru | Oct 27 2009, 08:57 PM Post #119 |
![]()
The White Mage
|
And like I said, I'm fine with that. It was the automatic jump to whining and bitching that I took issue with. Anyways, let's get back on topic.
These still need to be approved. Since they are Field Effects, I believe they follow the rule that if your Spirit is higher than Zander's, you can resist the effect. Cloud, let me know if I am remembering that correctly. |
![]() |
|
| [-Cloud-] | Oct 27 2009, 10:21 PM Post #120 |
![]()
Apocalypse (Lv4)
|
No, that's an ability required to resist Field abilities. I'll make it board wide along with /that/ other ability and a few other abilities. Field effects anything/anyone within X feet of the user, where X is determined by 10% of the users Spirit stat. |
![]() |
|
| Takeru | Oct 27 2009, 10:35 PM Post #121 |
![]()
The White Mage
|
Okay, so my Attractors don't need to have a resistance element since they are considered Field Effects. Cool. |
![]() |
|
| Kenny | Oct 29 2009, 10:53 AM Post #122 |
|
Meteorain (Lv3)
|
~ Spell cost? I think that can just be edited to 6. Is this per turn as well? ... as long as this doesn't mean you get to steal swords... or do ridiculous things... like chuck your gauntlets to the side as somebody attacks, then for that person's weapon to go thataway, while you slice their unprotected neck.
~ Consistency says 6 MP as well. Mm. And it's boardwide for somebody to have a higher Spirit to resist it? Then that's fine. Though, I don't want to see ridiculous things like: *person smartly casts Cure to bait Zander to cast his Mystic Pull, only to start machine firing Firaga which SHOULD hit then* Zander: Uh oh. *Zander casts his super dodge and just evades the Spirit/10 range* Mrm >=( Otherwise, I like the idea. With those changes and stipulations: approval from me :D Edited by Kenny, Oct 29 2009, 11:04 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Takeru | Oct 29 2009, 12:13 PM Post #123 |
![]()
The White Mage
|
Fair enough.
|
![]() |
|
| Gin | Nov 17 2009, 11:17 PM Post #124 |
|
Ikorose, Shinsou
|
Approved
Sorry to be an ass but can you please specify the metal materials you mean? Since their in an ability to approve upon every single material, and I think one is called metal, this might backfire or something without it. |
![]() |
|
| Takeru | Nov 17 2009, 11:32 PM Post #125 |
![]()
The White Mage
|
Bronze, Iron, Steel, Mithril, and Adamantium. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
![]() Our users say it best: "Zetaboards is the best forum service I have ever used." |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Graveyard · Next Topic » |
| Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
1:14 PM Jul 11
|
[ Copy this | Start New | Full Size ]











1:14 PM Jul 11