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A Python code for columnar transposition with RS44 (crossword puzzle) like matrices
Topic Started: Jan 15 2014, 11:08 AM (2,670 Views)
novice
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We were talking about the trustworthiness of authors and their software, and as a case in point about Geoff Sullivan's work which I told you was no longer available at his site -- which as far as I knew was the one mentioned in Cryptologia and is now closed.

The Cryptoden site has nothing to do with Geoff Sullivan. Are you now saying that site is contaminated?

Your accusations against the authors mentioned are groundless and you should admit it. In fact your accusations are groundless period. You should say so and apologise.


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mok-kong shen
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novice
Jan 25 2014, 09:18 PM
The Cryptoden site has nothing to do with Geoff Sullivan. Are you now saying that site is contaminated?
Your accusations against the authors mentioned are groundless and you should admit it. In fact your accusations are groundless period. You should say so and apologise.
(1) cryptoden was the "only" site I learned earlier from you. I don't know whether it is the author's own site or not (why should I care?) but it's your recommendation so it must anyway be the preferred site in your view. From the report of my acquaintance I tend to think that that particular piece of software currently located there should be used, if at all, with some care.

(2) Which were my sentences that you consider to be "accusations against the authors mentioned" and who are the "authors" (plural)? Could you please quote from what I wrote?
Edited by mok-kong shen, Jan 25 2014, 09:33 PM.
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novice
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MKS
 
From the report of my acquaintance I tend to think that that particular piece of software currently located there should be used, if at all, with some care



But I have scanned it and it is clean. And you can do the same thing for yourself rather than make baseless accusations.
Edited by novice, Jan 25 2014, 09:46 PM.
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mok-kong shen
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@novice: Thank you for the work of checking the RS44 software with your security software. But, as I said, the sensitivities or error rates of different security software could differ. As I wrote earlier, I have yet no motivation at all to look at that RS44 software, because I don't yet know (from you, see my repeated requests) that there are, besides a nice GUI, any concrete features/functionalities in that software that I haven't also implemented in mine. (Before your definite answer, I couldn't even exclude the opposite possibility.)
Edited by mok-kong shen, Jan 25 2014, 11:59 PM.
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nullsole
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I d/led the program from The Cryptoden -- http://www.cryptoden.com/index.php/downloads

I don't understand all the paranoia. Does anyone seriously d/l something without scanning it first? I'll backup a bit -- maybe d/l but NEVER open or RUN it until thoroughly scanned - by at least 2 scanners?

For me, I trust the site, trust the man and still, after d/l -- run the scanners before opening and RUNing the program. Isn't that 101? It was clean on several scanners.
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mok-kong shen
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@nullsole: Trust is, as is well known, always a principally subjective matter. It depends on the informations one happens to have and how one evaluates these and also, IMHO strongly, on one's particular past experiences in life, not to say issues that presumably may be traced back to genes. It's certainly not comparable to a mathematical statement whose logical value can be uniquely determined. (We disregard here the famous results of Goedel.) Notable in rather recent times in my view is e.g. what some top politicians claimed definitely to be true (but later turned out to be false albeit without the claims being retracted) and the matter with the banks (the very notion of bad banks as such seems to be rather new). Another way of looking at the intricacies of trust is to consider the fact that different people have different religions. People normally strongly trust the holy documents of their own religion and highly mistrust those that are trusted by the rest of the world. BTW, my interpretation of your possessing more than one malware scanners is that you mistrust each single one of them at least to some degree.
Edited by mok-kong shen, Jan 26 2014, 01:06 AM.
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novice
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@nullsole

Most of this thread is about my criticism of his program implementation of RS44 (which was the best field cipher in WW2).

I maintain that a program put up in this Forum for the benefit of users (as opposed to some development purpose like demonstration of a new technique to seasoned programmers) should be user friendly. His program is not so, in the sense that you have to go looking though the program code to find the parameters you want to set and the displayed output is not complete. Whereas, in what I recommend as a good user program, like Geoff Sullivan's, input of parameters is interactive within a nice GUI which gives a realistic output of the original cipher material.

He refuses to accept that the benefits of easy user interaction and good graphical presentation (which for a graphical code like RS44 are especially relevant) put Geoff's program in a superior league to his own. Such refusals, together with his paranoid safety fears, mean that he has not even looked at Geoff's implementation!

A sad commentary, in my view, on which I leave you and other readers to draw their own conclusions.


novice
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mok-kong shen
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novice
Jan 26 2014, 09:33 AM
A sad commentary, in my view, on which I leave you and other readers to draw their own conclusions.
I like also to call attention of the general readers to what novice wrote in Post#2 (quoted below) and either directly check the "truth" of his (very strong) critiques via running my code or trace the course of discussions between him and me, noting in particular that I, after countering his (incorrect) critiques point by point in Post#4, repeatedly asked him to say at least a single word to admit his mistakes but without success till now.
Code:
 
The[space]Python[space]program[space]given[space]by[space]Mok[space]Kong[space]Shen[space]is[space]far[space]from[space]implementing[space]the[space]concept[space]of[space]RS44.[space]The[space]only[space]feature[space]in[space]common[space]is[space]the[space]presence[space]of[space]
unfilled[space]spaces[space]in[space]the[space]matrix.[space]Other[space]vital[space]features[space]of[space]RS44[space](not[space]mentioned[space]by[space]MKS[space]nor[space]included[space]in[space]his[space]program)[space]are:
1.[space]The[space]message[space]could[space]be[space]commenced[space]at[space]any[space]point[space]in[space]the[space]matrix.[space]It[space]did[space]not[space]have[space]to[space]begin[space]in[space]the[space]top[space]left[space]corner;
2.[space]If[space]the[space]message[space]was[space]not[space]complete[space]by[space]the[space]end[space]of[space]the[space]matrix,[space]then[space]it[space]would[space]continue[space]at[space]the[space]top[space]of[space]the[space]matrix;
3.[space]Taking[space]out[space]the[space]ciphertext[space]began[space]in[space]a[space]different[space]column[space]to[space]that[space]chosen[space]for[space]writing[space]in.
Apart[space]from[space]not[space]containing[space]the[space]above[space]features,[space]the[space]MKS[space]program[space]does[space]not[space]reproduce[space]the[space]appearance[space]of[space]the[space]RS44[space]matrix
The more recent (entire) argumentations arising from the warning given by a certain anti-malware software about the exe-file software available at the site that he (repeatedly) recommended is IMHO also interesting, because at many places of the discussions there "seems" to be something that is "logically" not "consistent" or at least unnatural/remarkable, as I have indicated. (I don't know a proper English term to well express my personal subjective impression in this context, but I asked myself whether there perhaps couldn't by chance "eventually" be a certain "system" involved in there.)
Edited by mok-kong shen, Jan 26 2014, 11:25 AM.
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Grip2000
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mok-kong shen
Jan 26 2014, 11:23 AM
I don't know a proper English term to well express my personal subjective impression in this context, but I asked myself whether there perhaps couldn't by chance "eventually" be a certain "system" involved in there.
@mok-kong shen

What I myself do think or do is what I expect from others too. Those who don't trust others, aren't trustworthy themselves ;-)
I understand that you defend your program / thoughts. The way you will do that in posting #53 is in my opinion not acceptable!
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mok-kong shen
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Grip2000
Jan 26 2014, 12:42 PM
I understand that you defend your program / thoughts. The way you will do that in posting #53 is in my opinion not acceptable!
Could you please elaborate a little bit of "why" you think that the content of my post#53 is inacceptable, i.e. in which sense and also taking consideration of all the discussion stuffs I have had with novice in this thread (in particular e.g. of his keeping silence to my question (2) in my post#47)?
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Grip2000
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@mok-kong shen

I wanted to help you, not drift off into conspiracy theories against you.
Such discussion is not acceptable here i think.

But ultimately, it is your own decision what you believe and do not believe.

My opinion is only one of many. I can also err.
There is nothing more to say on this matter.
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mok-kong shen
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@Grip2000: Let me perhaps "frankly" say what I got (naturally subjectively) as my personal impression related to what I (as an example) mentioned in my last post concerning my question (2) in my post#47, so that you and the general readers could better understand me. The sequence of my thoughts in my head goes as follows: Why didn't novice respond to my question? He evidently couldn't respond. Why? Because what he wrote in this connection was a "fiction" , i.e. totally not real. Why did he post such nonsense nonetheless? That must be an intended action of him against me. Why? For what purpose? That could clearly only be a planned (i.e. not "chance") action with the purpose of defamation against me (for some yet not clearly known to me reasons) in that he claimed something not true/real and, if the general readers don't check (and indeed they could barely check themselves even if they seriously wanted to do so), then they would be totally misled into believing that I am indeed guilty of what novice claimed.

Have I clearly expressed my thoughts? Any questions/critiques to that?
Edited by mok-kong shen, Jan 26 2014, 04:13 PM.
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