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Do u think God is real?
Topic Started: Mar 21 2006, 10:11 PM (815 Views)
+ ViggosHT
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Not all things man made are great,nor are all things man made,that makes this world great!

I have a firm belief in the God,I have witnessed this enity.
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Steel Rat
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This is my personal belief (but I understand fully others) ....

Religion came about long ago because it provided answers for questions about the world and beyong, it gave hope, it lessened the fear of death, it brought together individuals in a community and together they were able to survive. In those days who would not want to suscribe to this pleasant outlook ... and so for generations people grew up in this environment of religeon and followed the beliefs of their parents.

However ..... consider this - that their belief was not founded on reality? It provided no proof and people just had to believe. People who do not believe are asked to have faith ... so people thought, ok, I will have faith, its better than the alternative and have nothing to believe in.

There are so many religeons, some of which believe in many gods. If god does exist who is to say which interpretation of him is correct? No one can!

If you believe in christianity now .... but could go back and be taken as a child and placed in a muslim family to grow up you would have totally different views on god.

Nowadays science has explained alot about our world, our galaxy, our universe and the questions keep coming and we strive to answer them. Potentially science may have explained some fundamental things wrong ... who knows? ... you just have to go back 100 years, 200 years and look at many explanations that have been over turned.

With our current understanding of the world, sometimes we can prove certain things and sometimes we just guess at answers. In time more things will get answered but also more questions will arrise.

By reading the above you might think I have a closed mind about religeon ... well I do not. My oppinion is there is nothing to prove that peoples belief in their god in miss placed - its just my oppinion is that there is nothing to prove that their god exists.

My final point is ..... that people who believe in something should not try to impress this on others and say 'this is the only thing! ... this is all you can believe in and you can think anything else!'. Which also applies to all I have typed above ..... I to cannot say any of the above is correct, its just my perception, my oppinion - developed over the many years I have been alive on this planet.

Is there a god? ... who knows. I guess we will all find out one day .... or maybe we wont ;)

P.S. This message is not meant to offend anyone elses belief.
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[size0]He can take any bank in the galaxy, con a captain out of his ship, start
a war or stop one - whichever pays the most - The Stainless Steel Rat
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+ DrThimmel
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Steel Rat,Sep 3 2006
8:13 PM
This is my personal belief (but I understand fully others) ....

Religion came about long ago because it provided answers for questions about the world and beyong, it gave hope, it lessened the fear of death, it brought together individuals in a community and together they were able to survive. In those days who would not want to suscribe to this pleasant outlook ... and so for generations people grew up in this environment of religeon and followed the beliefs of their parents.

However ..... consider this - that their belief was not founded on reality? It provided no proof and people just had to believe. People who do not believe are asked to have faith ... so people thought, ok, I will have faith, its better than the alternative and have nothing to believe in.

There are so many religeons, some of which believe in many gods. If god does exist who is to say which interpretation of him is correct? No one can!

If you believe in christianity now .... but could go back and be taken as a child and placed in a muslim family to grow up you would have totally different views on god.

Nowadays science has explained alot about our world, our galaxy, our universe and the questions keep coming and we strive to answer them. Potentially science may have explained some fundamental things wrong ... who knows? ... you just have to go back 100 years, 200 years and look at many explanations that have been over turned.

With our current understanding of the world, sometimes we can prove certain things and sometimes we just guess at answers. In time more things will get answered but also more questions will arrise.

By reading the above you might think I have a closed mind about religeon ... well I do not. My oppinion is there is nothing to prove that peoples belief in their god in miss placed - its just my oppinion is that there is nothing to prove that their god exists.

My final point is ..... that people who believe in something should not try to impress this on others and say 'this is the only thing! ... this is all you can believe in and you can think anything else!'. Which also applies to all I have typed above ..... I to cannot say any of the above is correct, its just my perception, my oppinion - developed over the many years I have been alive on this planet.

Is there a god? ... who knows. I guess we will all find out one day .... or maybe we wont  ;)

P.S. This message is not meant to offend anyone elses belief.

Good job here, Ratty... and I agree (and disagree) with many things you say here. :D

Proof is in the pudding... with science, but how does faith equate to a tangable touchable thing? Proof of faith is impossible, but we all acknowledge that it exists, correct? This is an acceptable FACT that is NOT "proven" by scientific means... therefore we (using Scientific principles) can infer, theorize, and deduce that Scientific means don't prove anything, but merely suggest that certain things are unknown... yet we (as people of faith) know these things, and those that disbelieve acknowledge they don't believe; so where does the "standard" of proof lie?

It is a fact that Christ was crucified on the cross, buried in a tomb that was guarded by a legon of Roman soldiers, and a fact that in spite of ALL those "precautions" taken, that Christ's body was GONE on the third day!

It was a "doubting Thomas" that didn't believe what was RIGHT before his eyes (Christ's risen body) and asked this person whom he KNEW WELL if he could "prove" who he was! He felt the "wounds" (literally stuck his fingers inside them) to confirm what he should have already known!

Muslems "believe" in the same Christ (as a prophet) that Christians do; and the exact same "God" as the Jews - but they differ in small points that matter little. If they believe that Christ WAS a prophet; then what he said should be a message from the "universal God-head" that all believe in - with a different name and/or application of these priciples.

Christ (in answering a "trick-question" posed by the pharasies to "prove" he was a fake) said; to the question "What is the meanings and summation of ALL (some 2000 such items) the laws of Moses?" and Christ dumb-founded these learned men (remember; he was ONLY a poor, uneducated carpenter's son?) with a simple, accurate, and concise summation... in ONE sentance!!! :o :yes:

"Love thy/THE one God and love no other Gods; and do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Christ

Pretty simple, eh? Love God (the God-head creator) and don't make-up false Gods; and do what YOU would have happen to YOU, unto others as well - and with this statement; we know what to do. PROOF?! :yes:

Science is the study of things that we can't explain in "provable", physical terms; Spirituality (not "religion") is the acceptance of those things as they are - without being able to explain the minutia.

Time and time again Science PROVES (or cannot disprove and explain) what is said (in one way or another) in the Torah (old testiment Bible) & the Koran (the Muslem equivalent of the Torah) that ALL stems from Moses and ABRAHAM!!!

1) The creation of the universe - the Big Bang (which is STILL called a "theory" because it can NEVER be proven) theory

2) The Noah's Arc flood - geological proof/evidence of a world-wide delugue/flood

3) The eternal soul/mind - matter and energy (like your thoughts & feelings) never increases nor diminishes, but simply changes form and location

4) Heaven - other dimensions

5) Existance of a God - "Indeminishable Complexity" & "Intellegent Design" of cells that proves "something" (God?) had to have started life on this planet / disproves the plausability of the "theory(s)" of Evolution and Random-chaotic Creation of Life

6) Creationism - "Intellegent Design" theory(s) as explained above

7) Original Adam & Eve genesis - genetic proof that we all came from a single genome and "parents"

8 ) Biblical "prophecies" of coming events - Recorded history (a science) of these events fullfilled

See a pattern? They tend to support (in a different way and/or wording/belief-system) eachother harmoniously! ;)

I say, "When we stop looking for the differences between us, and start looking for those things we share in common; then we will discover the meaning of the universe, God, and the ultimate truth in all things... and ourselves." - Terrell

Let's look for truth (Love, God, and science studies) and seak for the things we share in common here, and agree to disagree with eachother - and our rights and privaledges to do so with "respect" for others (do unto others...) from now on, okay? :wub: :kiss: :yes:

B/ & :thim:
LLAP (Live Long And Prosper) and NEVER give up!
Failure is... NOT an option, here!

"When one loses faith, and gives up hopes of trying to succeed; one LOSES, and gives up ALL hopes of succeeding!!!" - Terrell (himself)
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Steel Rat
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Well said Thimmel :)

There are so many things we may have right or wrong .... hopefully time will tell .... maybe thousands of years from now we will know more .... but I doubt it :D

There is certainly something beyond what humans can comprehend .... whether that is a god who created the universe, or just some natural occurance that is well beyond our understanding is difficult to say. I feel it is something that we (and by we I mean mankind) may never be able to answer.

Ratty.
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[size0]He can take any bank in the galaxy, con a captain out of his ship, start
a war or stop one - whichever pays the most - The Stainless Steel Rat
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+ DrThimmel
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;)

Well said your-SELF, Ratty... and right you are!!! :yes:

I don't think I'll be around (in this dimension anyways) when those thousands of years are up; but I think we'll ALL know the answers before then, okay? :angel:

B/ & :thim:
LLAP (Live Long And Prosper) and NEVER give up!
Failure is... NOT an option, here!

"When one loses faith, and gives up hopes of trying to succeed; one LOSES, and gives up ALL hopes of succeeding!!!" - Terrell (himself)
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Starman
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Hello all

Just to dive right in ;)

I don't believe in any God or deity.

As to debate I hope to return here when I have time to do so.


However
I urge caution in this debate and people must accept other peoples believes. I have seen many a board descend into nasty rows on this one subject.
I give the above warning everywhere I see this subject raised.

Respect

Starman

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+ ViggosHT
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Steel Rat,Sep 3 2006
8:13 PM
This is my personal belief (but I understand fully others) ....

Religion came about long ago because it provided answers for questions about the world and beyong, it gave hope, it lessened the fear of death, it brought together individuals in a community and together they were able to survive. In those days who would not want to suscribe to this pleasant outlook ... and so for generations people grew up in this environment of religeon and followed the beliefs of their parents.

However ..... consider this - that their belief was not founded on reality? It provided no proof and people just had to believe. People who do not believe are asked to have faith ... so people thought, ok, I will have faith, its better than the alternative and have nothing to believe in.

There are so many religeons, some of which believe in many gods. If god does exist who is to say which interpretation of him is correct? No one can!

If you believe in christianity now .... but could go back and be taken as a child and placed in a muslim family to grow up you would have totally different views on god.

Nowadays science has explained alot about our world, our galaxy, our universe and the questions keep coming and we strive to answer them. Potentially science may have explained some fundamental things wrong ... who knows? ... you just have to go back 100 years, 200 years and look at many explanations that have been over turned.

With our current understanding of the world, sometimes we can prove certain things and sometimes we just guess at answers. In time more things will get answered but also more questions will arrise.

By reading the above you might think I have a closed mind about religeon ... well I do not. My oppinion is there is nothing to prove that peoples belief in their god in miss placed - its just my oppinion is that there is nothing to prove that their god exists.

My final point is ..... that people who believe in something should not try to impress this on others and say 'this is the only thing! ... this is all you can believe in and you can think anything else!'. Which also applies to all I have typed above ..... I to cannot say any of the above is correct, its just my perception, my oppinion - developed over the many years I have been alive on this planet.

Is there a god? ... who knows. I guess we will all find out one day .... or maybe we wont ;)

P.S. This message is not meant to offend anyone elses belief.

I mean no disrespect to you or anyone on this thread.However I am taking this quote,since it is about the difference in belief,and I am bringing up a belief.

The belief that is it a right of himanity to destroy it's world,in any way shape or form,in order to make things,'easier' for them! War ,pollution, whatever it takes to make an easier life.

That is a belief I find unbelieveable to me. And most of those same folk do not believe in God.

:blink:
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Starman
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Quote:
 
I mean no disrespect to you or anyone on this thread.However I am taking this quote,since it is about the difference in belief,and I am bringing up a belief.

The belief that is it a right of himanity to destroy it's world,in any way shape or form,in order to make things,'easier' for them! War ,pollution, whatever it takes to make an easier life.

That is a belief I find unbelieveable to me. And most of those same folk do not believe in God.


I do not believe that. I don't know anyone who believes that. I don't believe in God. ;)
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+ DrThimmel
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I believe in God... and science... but I don't "impose" my beliefs onto others, and hope they won't do that unto me, see?! ;) :yes:

I don't believe that agnostics believe (other than existance of God) much differently than "believers" do - they don't believe (I believe) in killing, wars, and other "bad things" either, do they?!!! :no: Of course not. :flowers:

I believe (according to the Bible) that a day will come when believers and non-believers will be "face-to-face" with the truth, and nobody will be "left behind" when the revalation is made to all, obviously! ;)

After that (I believe) we will ALL be given ample opportunity to "learn" from "God" and choose at the "Final Judgement" time; for a "fair and just God" gives every chance to those whom need them, right? :wub:

Just my two-cents worth... :yes:

B) & :thim: & B/
LLAP (Live Long And Prosper) and NEVER give up!
Failure is... NOT an option, here!

"When one loses faith, and gives up hopes of trying to succeed; one LOSES, and gives up ALL hopes of succeeding!!!" - Terrell (himself)
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Starman
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Thanks for that post Dr. I was starting to believed I had killed the debate :shutup:
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Starman,Sep 17 2006
4:42 PM
Thanks for that post Dr. I was starting to believed I had killed the debate :shutup:

You're MOST welcomed, Starman... I can discuss this stuff ALL day without getting angry and silly stuff like that - to each his own, I say! :yes: :hyper: :D

Love eachother and try to be a good person and good to everyTHING too, agreed? :wub: :kiss: :angel: :yes:

B) & :thim: & B/
LLAP (Live Long And Prosper) and NEVER give up!
Failure is... NOT an option, here!

"When one loses faith, and gives up hopes of trying to succeed; one LOSES, and gives up ALL hopes of succeeding!!!" - Terrell (himself)
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+ ViggosHT
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Starman,Sep 9 2006
3:52 PM
Quote:
 
I mean no disrespect to you or anyone on this thread.However I am taking this quote,since it is about the difference in belief,and I am bringing up a belief.

The belief that is it a right of himanity to destroy it's world,in any way shape or form,in order to make things,'easier' for them! War ,pollution, whatever it takes to make an easier life.

That is a belief I find unbelieveable to me. And most of those same folk do not believe in God.


I do not believe that. I don't know anyone who believes that. I don't believe in God. ;)

What is it you do not believe and perhaps I did not phrase it correctly,it is my belief that folks who care nothing for their world or much of anything else,do not believe in God either.

I believe in God,however I do not share the vision of those who do not. Just as I would not push my belief on anyone,I also would not like them to push their beliefs onto me.I do not believe in all the pollution causing ways in this world. Yet,I do have to live with it all around me. I have not driven an automobile since 1997. I have a bicycle.

And am living for the days of alternative energy.
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Starman
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I do not believe that humanity have a right to destroy the world.

I would maintain the the statement
Quote:
 
folks who care nothing for their world or much of anything else,do not believe in God either.
is a generalisation too far.

I give you one name.

George W Bush.

IMO cares little for the world in particular the environment but also is a deeply religious man.

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Steel Rat
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Quote:
 
it is my belief that folks who care nothing for their world or much of anything else,do not believe in God either.


I agree with Starman that this is a generalisation .... and I disagree with the comment as a whole as well.

People are human beings who whether religious or not does not effect our nature. We can do some very good and nice things but we can do some horrible things.

I care alot about other people, animals and the planet in general ..... but I do not believe in god and know many other people like it.

:D
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+ DrThimmel
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Although I disagree with Viggy's statement about those that are "insensitive" to the harm they do would naturally not believe in God - for the Conquistadors believed with all their hearts yet desimated South America and the natives there. :devil:

The Spanish Inquisition sent sevel people to a horrible death in the name of Christianity; same with the Holy Crusades... and they believe in God, BUT... I see what she is trying to say...

She is trying to say (I think) that people that don't believe are "more likely" to do evil and wrong things than those that do believe in God, because they don't fear an after-life nor accounting for how they lived when they die, or even that they know the differances between right & wrong sometimes, because they haver no standard to adhere to, right Viggy?

Actually there are a LOT of people that "say" they believe, but are hypocrates and liars... only fooling themselves, and giving those of us that truely believe and try to "live right" a bad name - yet JUST because someone doesn't believe in God doesn't mean they are evil and would do wrong, right?

It all depends on the individual!

@Viggy: If you want to "persuade and influence" someone to see your side of issues... "you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar", so give your opinions "with love" but don't expect everyone to agree, see? ;)

The Doc :thim:

I don't know... people do wrong even when they try to do right, accidentally. :yes:
LLAP (Live Long And Prosper) and NEVER give up!
Failure is... NOT an option, here!

"When one loses faith, and gives up hopes of trying to succeed; one LOSES, and gives up ALL hopes of succeeding!!!" - Terrell (himself)
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