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| Abortion is wrong | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 1 2006, 01:38 AM (4,055 Views) | |
| 严加华 | Jul 3 2006, 01:26 AM Post #31 |
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Magister Ludicrous
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So if you get into an accident and break your neck, you cease being a person because you can no longer breathe on your own? |
LC Sez:
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| Tech Junkie | Jul 3 2006, 01:54 AM Post #32 |
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Styx Ferryman
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Just a random, kooky, way out there thought: Has anyone considered asking the father (if known/available)? Given that 50% of the potential offspring is his DNA, doesn't that entitle him to some say one way or the other. (My personal ethics would say that in life or death situations, this wouldn't apply) I mean, it seems to me that the male contributor to the reproductive act just gets shut out until birth, and courts often shut them out afterward when they have even the slightest reason to (i.e. Divorce, father unfit reguardless of the unfitness of the mother unless she's waaaay out there. . . ) But that's a whole `nother debate. Just thought I'd ask. |
| May the blessing of Our Lady of the Workshop be upon you. | |
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| Necronomicon | Jul 3 2006, 02:00 AM Post #33 |
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omar comin' yo
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Male's opinions would probably matter more if children grew in their wombs. |
| omar yo. omar comin | |
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| Tom Joad | Jul 3 2006, 02:00 AM Post #34 |
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Gap tooth so my dick's got to fit.
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I would have to say that a person becomes a person at conception because by then they have a different set of DNA than anybody else in the world. |
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| Necronomicon | Jul 3 2006, 02:18 AM Post #35 |
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omar comin' yo
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But if unique DNA is the only rationale we have for determining personhood, identical twins would just be one person, chimeras would be a couple people in one body, and people who receive gene therapies would become different people. Also, if personhood starts at conception we'll have to revamp our estimates of natural deaths owing to approximately 20 to 50 percent of all pregnancies spontaneously aborting. What makes a person? |
| omar yo. omar comin | |
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| Tom Joad | Jul 3 2006, 02:28 AM Post #36 |
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Gap tooth so my dick's got to fit.
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A question for the ages... |
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| Kett | Jul 3 2006, 03:14 AM Post #37 |
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Planning World Domination
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A person seems to be someone with a name and a life. Many pro-life women do not have funerals for their miscarriages because it was not yet really a person in their mind. But it was a potential person, which is something that needs to be protected. Killing a potential person is wrong, because given time that potential person would become a real person people would care about. Therefore, from their standpoint, abortion is wrong. Does that make sense? |
| The vast majority of schooling is spent teaching young minds what is heresy and not worth considering. The rest is spent scoffing at closed-minded individuals refusing to accept the new sciences of their time. | |
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| Dr. Jim | Jul 3 2006, 03:31 PM Post #38 |
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Nihil estis, Omnes sum
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If we base the value of a person on their potential, then people are going to end up being worth a lot more than they really are. A child could be born and end up a Mozart or a hitler, a John Doe or a hobo. From birth potential isn't really limited. However, if that child was about to be aborted but wasn't due to legal action, it's pretty obvious the child isn't wanted, and that hurts the child and it's potential. The younger the child, the higher it's potential because of it's having more time to correct mistakes and invest properly in good ideas. Thus, a sperm or egg cell has the most potential. If we're judging something on it's potential, then killing a single sperm or egg cell is worse than an abortion. You have to ignore potential, and look at a more realistic means of value, capacity. |
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...Matt was no exception to this. When he stood in the street and noticed his chest started to really hurt again, he made the decision to look down. He screamed like a grown man would scream when that grown man sees a laser burning his chest, and that is like a little girl... -From Super Naked Moose Man | |
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| Tech Junkie | Jul 4 2006, 02:32 AM Post #39 |
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Styx Ferryman
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I fail to see how. Not saying hand the decision over, just require some input. C'mon, the system shafts us enough. Can't we get one thing other than a higher salary? Seriously, I still fail to see the point. Given that offspring A is a product of parents B and C, would not exist without both parents B and C, and is legally gonna end up in the custody of parents B and/or C after birth, and given that said custody will affect their lives for 18 years as opposed to a mere 9 months (part of which they spend w/o the benifit of their own central nervous system). I simply believe that in situations where both parents are reachable for input, both should have it before a decision is made. However, my point is really technically off topic. This is about the morality of abortion. My appologies for interrupting. |
| May the blessing of Our Lady of the Workshop be upon you. | |
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| Kett | Jul 4 2006, 04:08 AM Post #40 |
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Planning World Domination
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Junkie, it would be wonderful if it worked that way. But it doesn't. My friend Ashley was dating a guy with 2 children from a previous marriage. The kids hate their mother and claim that her new husband beats them in ways that do not leave marks. She has custody, he is allowed to visit only every other weekend. Am I the only one seeing the problem here? Mothers always have more control over their kids and are allowed to be worse and retain custody. There have been court cases where the mother tried to get an abortion and the husband fought not to let her. In every case, the mother won, as it was a part of her body. And it always will be. Fathers are merely care givers. When nasty court battles take place, the one who carried the baby always wins. Although now we're not on abortion so much as we are on the subject of a sexist society that still believes (though tries to hide it) that men are meant for work and women are meant for child rearing. But this was a joke topic, so I really don't mind how off-topic it gets
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| The vast majority of schooling is spent teaching young minds what is heresy and not worth considering. The rest is spent scoffing at closed-minded individuals refusing to accept the new sciences of their time. | |
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| koala | Jul 4 2006, 08:47 AM Post #41 |
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THE GREATEST POSTER OF ALL
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correct. |
| A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. You think when Jesus comes back he ever wants to see a fucking cross? It's like going up to Jackie Onassis wearing a rifle pendant. | |
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| Dr. Jim | Jul 4 2006, 03:30 PM Post #42 |
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Nihil estis, Omnes sum
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You're still a person. You're just now an inferior and for the most part useless person who should only exist as long as their wallet can afford. As a dad who lost custody of a child to a woman who is incompetant as a mother, drinks, has many sexual partners in rapid succession (already worked through her whole office), can't get a decent job, has no prospects for the future in terms of career or education, is immature and cannot comprehend complex problems or situations, and on the whole shouldn't be allowed to babysit let alone raise my son, I feel that the dad has an equal say. She was awarded custody based soley on her gender. If the dad is a superior being to the mother, he should get custody. |
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...Matt was no exception to this. When he stood in the street and noticed his chest started to really hurt again, he made the decision to look down. He screamed like a grown man would scream when that grown man sees a laser burning his chest, and that is like a little girl... -From Super Naked Moose Man | |
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| Kett | Jul 4 2006, 06:38 PM Post #43 |
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Planning World Domination
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Working Mothers=Good House Husbands=Bad Something's seriously not right here. |
| The vast majority of schooling is spent teaching young minds what is heresy and not worth considering. The rest is spent scoffing at closed-minded individuals refusing to accept the new sciences of their time. | |
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| koala | Jul 4 2006, 09:23 PM Post #44 |
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THE GREATEST POSTER OF ALL
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they don't apply under my definition as a person. My definition of a person is someone who is white, protestant, all the others are not people, they are vermin. (just kidding) :lol: someone who, for the most part, is independent. That's my definition of a person. |
| A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. You think when Jesus comes back he ever wants to see a fucking cross? It's like going up to Jackie Onassis wearing a rifle pendant. | |
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| Tech Junkie | Jul 4 2006, 11:20 PM Post #45 |
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Styx Ferryman
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Shhh! Don't draw too much attention to the law's preference for women in such cases. There are groups that would castrate you for that, all the while calling you a male cheauvinist pig (despite the fact that about 75% can'd even spell cheauvinist, let alone define it). Ok, Seriously: It really is amazing how much sexism is condoned by society, so long as it isn't males who benifit. Example: Man hits girlfriend/wife= Domestic abuse, man serves prison time. Woman hits boyfriend/husband= Not a problem, man should just take it. Now, both are clearly wrong, yet one is acceptable and the other is a felony. There is definitely something wrong here. |
| May the blessing of Our Lady of the Workshop be upon you. | |
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8:13 AM Jul 11