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| The problem with School | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 20 2006, 03:23 PM (1,182 Views) | |
| Tech Junkie | Jul 20 2006, 03:23 PM Post #1 |
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Styx Ferryman
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For those of us in the US, it's clear that our school system . . . well, it sucks abysmally. At the elementary school level, we rank among the best in the world. By High School, we're waaaaay down the list. What in the blue hell is going on? My theories: Ineffective teaching at the Junior High (which is unnessessary) and High School levels. Corrupt administrators Tenured teachers abusing the privelage of tenure Teachers unions finding ways to do less and less work for more No motivation for students at the ages they really need it Too much focus on non-issues like class size Too many people believing that throwing money at the problem fixes it Poor curriculum at the Junior High/High School level. While I like the idea of giving school vouchers to those that can't afford private secondary schooling to give those public schools some real competition, I think we should work at fixing the problem with the system as a whole. My Solution: Hackwrench High I'm still working on this, so bear with me. I also need to get in touch with my Ed. Major sister to run some of this by her (after all, it is her field of study, so she's bound to know more about this than I do). Administration: At Hackwrench High, the administrators are trained in business administration as well as education. They view this school as offering the service of education to their customers, the students and parents. Their job is to ensure that things run smoothly, and perhaps increase school revenues to suppliment their funding. Teachers: (work in progress. need consulting) Curriculum: Hackwrench High acts as a 6 year High school (combining the meaningless Junior high into the other 4 years), with the idea of creating decently rounded students that will go into their colleges or careers with some background in their field of study. Year 1: Pre-Algebra or Algebra 1, depending on test scores English Literature Civics/Political Science Physical Activity (Student's choice), or Health Physical Science Foriegn Language (Student's choice) Practical Skill* (Student's Choice) Year 2: Algebra 1 or Algebra 2 Basic Composition w/ Grammar refresher US History to Reconstruction Biology Physical Activity or Health, whichever wasn't taken in Year 1 Foriegn Language (As prior year) Fine Art** (Student's Choice) Year 3: At the begining of this year, you select your field of study. You may change your field at semester. Your decision will be finalized at the end of the year (Based on which field you studied that you preferred. Starting in year 4, this decision is irreversable) Geometry, Trigonometry, or Algebra 2 Advanced Composition US History Post-Reconstruction Introductory Economics General Elective 4 Introductory-level Courses in your field (each a semester long. At semester, you may change fields) Year 4: Geometry or Trigonometry Composition Style Elective (based on field of study) World Geography Chemestry General Elective 2 courses in chosen field Year 5: Geometry, Trigonometry, or Calculus 1 if both have been completed 3 General Electives 3 courses in chosen field Year 6: Calculus 1 or 2 2 General Electives 2 Courses in chosen field 2 electives in chosen field Facilities: Kept as advanced and clean as practically possible. Food: Vending machines will be provided, and cafeteria will provide variety. Franchises may set up shop (up to 3 different companies), but they must pay rent and provide own supplies. Security: Decent security staff a must. Halls will be monitered by covert cameras and individual patrols between classes. Hackwrench High will maintain a night watch. Student /faculty/visitorsafety is high priority, with protection of school property in a close second. Punishment: All suspentions will be "In School" suspentions (meaning seperating the offender from other students while still making them do classwork). Corporal punishment is nonexistant (that's for elementary school). Vandals will be required to pay for damage incurred. Fights will not be interrupted unless injury or property damage occours, and are punishable by suspention. Students and their families are liable for any injuries inflicted by their student/self, and may be prosecuted accordingly. All punishments for violence will be announced pubically and/or distributed in the school newsletter, and said punishments will be harsher on the individual whom started the fight. Any weapons brought on campus must be registered with the front desk, and their use for violent ends is grounds for expultion. Drug use on school grounds is grounds for expultion. This school will not punish students for acts comitted off school grounds, as these fall under the parent's jurisdiction. Thieft is punishable by suspention and either replacement of the stolen item or payment equal to the cost of said item. Further, the thief will be required to pay a punitive fine proportional to the act of thieft to the school (This section still being fleshed out) Opinions? Comments? Suggestions? *Skills such as Keyboarding, Woodworking, Drafting, Metalworking, Home Economics, etc. ** Film, Photography, Painting, Music (Appreciation or performance), Drawing, Sculpture, Creative Writing |
| May the blessing of Our Lady of the Workshop be upon you. | |
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| Tom Joad | Jul 20 2006, 03:33 PM Post #2 |
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Gap tooth so my dick's got to fit.
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I like your system for the average student, but for somebody who has some motivation like myself I don't like it. I like my schedule that I can change to suit my needs. If a want to go into medicine, I need advanced science and math courses, and I rather enjoy social studies and language classes. |
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| Tech Junkie | Jul 20 2006, 03:48 PM Post #3 |
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Styx Ferryman
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That's why I included electives in the system, to give just a bit of flexibility. As a sidenote, I too like language classes (Actually considering a Spanish minor, and trying to pick up Japanese)
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| May the blessing of Our Lady of the Workshop be upon you. | |
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| piercehawkeye45 | Jul 20 2006, 05:27 PM Post #4 |
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Franklin Pierce
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I agree with a majority of this but I have a few questions? What do you mean by field of study? High School is a place for a basic, rounded education and should not be treated like a college. Selecting a field is hard enough for kids five years older than them, what makes you think that they can correctly pick a field that would suit their own intrests and not of others: parents, friends, teachers, etc. High School freshman usually aren't mature enough to make a descion like that based on their own needs and not what they are pressured into. I also agree with Tom Joad on advanced courses. But you will also have to have different routes for people in slower classes. Many people would not be able to keep up with such a fast paced schedule, ending high school with calculus, and won't need that in life at all (unless you don't require that in your different fields of study) I think that physical activity should be mandatory. Having kids just sit around all day would only hurt the kids, and many are overweight. Drugs use out of school should be punished in school if that person participates in an extraciricullar activity. I'll add more if I think of any others. Other than those I think this is a very good system and if used could prove to be very effective. As many other people will agree, junior high was the most pointless years of my life. By adding it to high school could solve many problems but I also think that they should be seperated from the usual high schoolers but remain under the same system. I agree 100% with the reasons that our school system is failing, especially the motivation part. So many kids go downhill during junior high and high school because of the lack of motivation. I think the school system have some part in that, the parents have the biggest. If you could find a way to motivate the kids our schools would increase to close to the top by just that. The other big reason are ineffective teachers. In some of my classes, the teacher did not do anything and just had us teach ourselves. Many people say that high school not only teaches kids about classes, but also about life. I think that should be implemented in your schoool. In my school I got no freedom and was treated like I was still in Junior High. That is one thing that I would like to see changed. You could achive this by seperating the school in three parts. The first part for the first two years, second for the third and fourth years, and the last part for the last two years. This would allow a gradual loosening of chaperones and adding of responsibilites. The first part would be like a junior high but with the high school system. This is the age where kids are going through puebery and changing. They are starting to notice people of the opposite sex and start to become more rebellious and think for themselves. They will not have the maturity to be treated as an adult and will abbuse that responsibility. This part should be a very experimental school that will show kids their limits yet not let them go out of control. You have to let them rebel and get through those shit years without getting in their way or it will just come out worse in high school and potentially screw up their lives. The second part should be treated like a tradional high school. Maybe have a political class or somthing in that nature so they can learn to argue and gain more personal views and not those of their peers and parents. The kids should have calmed down by now and starting to get on track. The part should be treated as a college but not that extent. They should be able to pick what time of day they want to have their classes and give them freedom to leave the school (as long as they come back). There should be addendance and have disiplinary action but not the extent of the first two parts. Maybe have them live dorms and stress them to get jobs and learn to manage their own money. This part should stress life lessons as well as academics. By now you can tell how people are going to turn out and can be split up accordingly. I hope that part helps. As I said before this seems like a very good system and I think it would work out well. |
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Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed I'm America! I have found the enemy and he is us. | |
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| Tom Joad | Jul 20 2006, 05:59 PM Post #5 |
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Gap tooth so my dick's got to fit.
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I am not in favor of letting special education kids have an easy way out, but you need to divide up the classes with the smart kids in one class, average kids, etc. etc. The reason I got in so much trouble in junior high was that everybody in grade were in almost the same classes, and I got done with most of the work before other kids were starting, so all I could do was talk and get in trouble. Also I was about 1000x more hyper than I am now. Now that I am in high school and the smarter kids take harder classes I am way more productive. The worst place to have ineffective trachers is in the advanced classes. I had to pretty much teach myself Chemistry, but I ended up getting an "A" and now I am done with it. |
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| piercehawkeye45 | Jul 20 2006, 06:07 PM Post #6 |
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Franklin Pierce
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Acually probably the opposite and you just proved it. If you get a bad teacher in the advanced classes the student are able to teach themselves and still do well. In the lower courses the kids aren't able to teach themselves so they give up and fail. |
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Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed I'm America! I have found the enemy and he is us. | |
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| Dr. Jim | Jul 20 2006, 06:29 PM Post #7 |
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Nihil estis, Omnes sum
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I like it a lot. I worry that the system faces the same problem that our current system faces. I'll go so far as to say, without this problem, the current system would work: Lazy Students. It goes beyond them simply not wanting to work. They don't have to work. A student doesn't need to work at all during their high school career, and at the end of it they get the same diploma as the kid who worked as hard as he could. Children don't need college to survive anymore. They don't even need jobs. Thus, there is no motivation to get good grades. My graduating class was 50 students. Of that 50, 5 went to college, 10 got jobs. That's 35 unemployed and uneducated new citizens every year. On top of that, there's a critical problem in my area: Wellfare. If you have a job, you don't get it. If you don't have a job, you get it. You get around 2,000$ a month on it. If you work 40 hours a week at a reasonable wage, you won't be able to make 2000$ a month. On top of that, college costs so much you'll never pay it off. Thus, it's easier and cheaper to not go to college, not get a job, not do well in school. This removes motivation. No motivation plus already lazy/stupid children adds up to the biggest flaw in our system. |
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...Matt was no exception to this. When he stood in the street and noticed his chest started to really hurt again, he made the decision to look down. He screamed like a grown man would scream when that grown man sees a laser burning his chest, and that is like a little girl... -From Super Naked Moose Man | |
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| piercehawkeye45 | Jul 20 2006, 07:53 PM Post #8 |
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Franklin Pierce
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How many people do you think are on welfare? Schools getting kids motivated would be really hard since they have nothing to push them with. The biggest problem is not the school but the parents. I've seen parents that will give their kids anything they want, fight all the kid's battles, and not disipline a kid when they need it. If a kid gets brought up like this the chances of them having self-motivation is a lot lower than a kid with parents that pushed them, made them figure out and confront their problems (within reason), and disipline a child. It is only going to get worse from here. The bribing your kids can only go so far. If kids aren't motivated to do well by high school they probably won't ever change. I agree that high school is really easy, i finished it without studying a lot and got good grades and got into a good college. If they made it harder they could seperate the students that can handle the change with the ones that can't. I can't really agree or disagree on your theory Jim because I came from a different setting. I think 96% of our graduating class or someting like that went onto college. How they will do in college is another story altogther though. |
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Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed I'm America! I have found the enemy and he is us. | |
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| Krispy | Jul 20 2006, 08:39 PM Post #9 |
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Disgraced Dictator
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Forcing a child to take a logic course every year (math courses) is not recommended. For starters, some people may not need math beyond Algebra 2 (english majors) and even more won't need math beyond Calc 1. I can't really sympathize with your situation either, Mr. Jim. I came from a lab community high school where the average SAT score was above 1300 and we had two perfect scores in our class alone. A strange study enviroment, that was. |
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| Irockwayhard | Jul 20 2006, 09:10 PM Post #10 |
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Disgraced Dictator
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Sounds good, I guess, although asking a student to decide on a field of study after three years, at that age, is asking a little much - how many times are majors changed and the college level? (Mine changed twice). And about vouchers, I don't really think I support that, and plus the National Center for Education Statistics just released a study that found students in public schools performed as well or better than private school students, one exception being eight grade english, where private school students did better. Also, I think one of the most devistating problems of the US educational system is not "lazy students" (though I admit it is an issue created by our TV culture) the socio-economic background of many public school students. Many failing students come from parents who are either apathetic to their child's success in school or financially unable to provide the best environment for educational success. Address this and I think alot of the public education failings will be rectified. |
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"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein | |
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| piercehawkeye45 | Jul 20 2006, 09:26 PM Post #11 |
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Franklin Pierce
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The point of public schools is so this doesn't happen but sadly this isn't true. Many schools in the inner cities are absoutly terrible. Anohter question Tech, Is this a public or private school? Uniforms? I'm against uniform but you will need a dress code. |
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Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed I'm America! I have found the enemy and he is us. | |
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| Tom Joad | Jul 20 2006, 09:37 PM Post #12 |
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Gap tooth so my dick's got to fit.
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I have to say it, parents make the kid. I have to congradulate my parents for molding me into a good person. That doesn't mean that I always like them, but they look out for my best interests. They push me in school and to be a better person. Without my parents pushing me I would go from a 31 ACT to a student with alot of potential that wastes it. But in many ways I do like the whole system, I just don't think it would change alot of things. Performing in school is a culture thing too, when it becomes "cool" to be the top in your class, then everybody will do better in school. |
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| odin343434 | Jul 20 2006, 11:01 PM Post #13 |
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Struggling Scientist
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In my school, if one particular teacher caught you fighting... He'd take you both down to the gym, toss you in the ring, give you some gloves and tell you that if you're gonna do it then do it right. My high school was very much a prep school. We didn't get in trouble if we didn't do our homework. We didn't get detention. We simply got to take the test without the benefit of the homework. It was my responsibility and I suffered the consequences of those actions. Much like real life. My parents were pretty much the same way. I didn't have a curfew. If I came home at 5am, I didn't get in trouble... but it was my problem if I got up the next morning or not. It was my problem how tired I was the next day. It was my problem if I was late to school or work. I say give the teens the responsibility and they'll surprise you. |
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| Tom Joad | Jul 20 2006, 11:26 PM Post #14 |
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Gap tooth so my dick's got to fit.
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odin343434, I envy you. |
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| piercehawkeye45 | Jul 21 2006, 12:43 AM Post #15 |
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Franklin Pierce
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That must have been a great school to go too. The kids probably acually matured during their high school years instead of waiting for college like most do nowadays. |
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Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed I'm America! I have found the enemy and he is us. | |
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(Actually considering a Spanish minor, and trying to pick up Japanese)

12:36 AM Jul 11