| Welcome to Exit Mundi Forums. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| American Health Care | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 8 2006, 08:57 PM (783 Views) | |
| Tom Joad | Aug 25 2006, 09:10 PM Post #31 |
|
Gap tooth so my dick's got to fit.
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I have no problem with some countries going to socialized medicare, but I'm afraid if everybodybody did it that there wouldn't be enough innovation, or incentive for innovation. As long as there is non-socialized medicare all the best researchers and doctors will come to the country where they can make the most money anyway (America right now). |
| |
![]() |
|
| piercehawkeye45 | Aug 25 2006, 09:45 PM Post #32 |
|
Franklin Pierce
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
You could fix that easily Tom. Every country that wants the medicine pitches in money to a pool that pays for two (or more?) competitive research stations. That would inspire researchers to find cures and the countries to pay for them because the countries want the final product and don’t want to be looked down upon by the other nations. The amount of pay by each country would most likely have to vary according to population to make it fair. |
|
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed I'm America! I have found the enemy and he is us. | |
![]() |
|
| 严加华 | Aug 26 2006, 12:52 AM Post #33 |
|
Magister Ludicrous
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Canada has socialised medicine. It also has lots of innovation -- by proportion of population moreso than the USA. Of course we have the NRC to fund such innovation. You have the equivalent, but the money all goes toward innovative ways to kill people. As to all doctors fleeing to the USA to get rich? That's just bullshit. We had a short-term brain drain of doctors in the '80s. They mostly came back. Because doctors getting rich? Is true only if you don't factor malpractice insurance into the equation. Your litigous society makes being a doctor far too expensive for most. Our nurses, on the other hand, they did leave and stay away. Which is why I don't believe in providing any form of financial assistance for nursing students unless they sign a contract saying they'll stay in the country for a decade after getting their diploma.
According to population and not relative wealth? Yeah. That's fair. Like, say, China, with 1.3 billion people paying four times the USA with 300 million people. Despite 60% of the population living on about $20 per month.... |
LC Sez:
| |
![]() |
|
| Tom Joad | Aug 26 2006, 09:04 PM Post #34 |
|
Gap tooth so my dick's got to fit.
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I do like that idea. I just hate any time you bring politics into anything that people rely on. Politicians would only give money to the firms that they have stock in or own. Maybe I just assume all politicians are bastards because I'm in America. |
| |
![]() |
|
| 严加华 | Aug 27 2006, 12:55 AM Post #35 |
|
Magister Ludicrous
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
It's a good assumption, Tom. Politicians are bastards. No matter where you live. (I say this as someone who's lived and travelled in much of the world....) |
LC Sez:
| |
![]() |
|
| piercehawkeye45 | Aug 27 2006, 04:28 AM Post #36 |
|
Franklin Pierce
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Thats why I'm for socializing all prducts that people need. There is no excuse for picking favorites and jacking up prices when people are dying or living in constant pain.
That or need maybe? If a country is ravaged by a disease, shouldn't they pay more than a country not affected by it? This is one of the arguments where there is no good answer. If that country is poor (AIDS in Africa) it may hurt them more than help while wealth can screw over countries that don't nessasarily need the cure. |
|
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed I'm America! I have found the enemy and he is us. | |
![]() |
|
| 严加华 | Aug 27 2006, 05:55 AM Post #37 |
|
Magister Ludicrous
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
This is remarkably short-sighted. Are you sure you're not a pharmaceutical firm? You see, diseases -- infectious ones -- know no class boundaries. AIDS started in Africa, for example, and is still most lethal there. But it has spread around the world. Wealthy countries paying to kill diseases in poor countries is a far better investment of tax dollars than is all that crappy technology the USA has to slaughter and murder in ever-increasing numbers.Imagine if, say, Ebola had, during its run in Africa, mutated into an aerosol-spread form. When it was "just a bunch of darkies" dying in Africa (50-90% mortality rate! ), nobody in the USA gave a damn, really. You were safe. But an aerosol-spread version of it? Would have slaughtered your entire country with stunning speed (not to mention every other country in the world). And viruses are notoriously mutation-prone.... It is in everybody's best interests -- even selfish, self-righteous plutocrats like the current crowd of neocons -- to combat disease. It is only short-sightedness, greed and outright stupidity that prevents us from setting up something that can actually stand a chance against Mother Nature should she ever choose this expression of hostility again. (We haven't had a proper pandemic since the Spanish flu in the early 20th century -- and we're a lot more mobile now than we ever were before!) |
LC Sez:
| |
![]() |
|
| piercehawkeye45 | Aug 27 2006, 06:13 AM Post #38 |
|
Franklin Pierce
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Now I feel stupid.......thanks. :angry: I fully understand the point that it is a good investment and I totally agree with it. Prevention is a lot better than having to cure people when it’s too late. I just don't think that small countries should be paying as much as the larger ones. It takes a bigger toll on them because they don't make as much money as bigger ones. Would this work? Find the total amount of income the government makes through taxes of every country and then take an equal proportion from all of them. Donations would make up a good amount also. Or is that what you were getting at with relative wealth? |
|
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed I'm America! I have found the enemy and he is us. | |
![]() |
|
| 严加华 | Aug 27 2006, 07:58 AM Post #39 |
|
Magister Ludicrous
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
That is what I meant by relative wealth, yes. Rich countries pay more per capita than poor countries. That way you don't have the (relatively) poor countries of, say, China or India contributing more money than the (relatively) wealthy countries like Canada or the USA. |
LC Sez:
| |
![]() |
|
| Tom Joad | Aug 28 2006, 12:01 AM Post #40 |
|
Gap tooth so my dick's got to fit.
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I'm a big fan of charities. Give money to the Red-Cross. If you don't you are a heartless bastard who shouldn't have any say in health-care!
|
| |
![]() |
|
| 严加华 | Aug 28 2006, 01:08 AM Post #41 |
|
Magister Ludicrous
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I used to give my money to the Red Cross. Until a buddy of mine volunteered for them and I found out where the majority of the money went. This was the final straw for me and charities. I've pretty much given up on giving money to any organisation. Rarely do charities exceed a 25% input->output conversion. Typically 75% is spent on "administration". This despite that much of that administration is ... volunteer. |
LC Sez:
| |
![]() |
|
| piercehawkeye45 | Aug 28 2006, 01:17 AM Post #42 |
|
Franklin Pierce
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Do you know of any good charities then? I like that isara.com thing, even if there is a low input/output we don't lose anything and it's better than getting some guy rich. |
|
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed I'm America! I have found the enemy and he is us. | |
![]() |
|
| 严加华 | Aug 28 2006, 01:35 AM Post #43 |
|
Magister Ludicrous
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
No. But I haven't been looking for the past five years. Seeing as how I'm living off of less money than an average welfare recipient in Canada and all that. What I did before I came here, however, was monitored world events and then tried to find honest charities helping in specific cases. There was a major threat of famine in Mongolia, for example, after one winter that nearly destroyed all the croplands. Lots of charities were whoring for cash for that, but only one of them had people actually in the field and had several independent reports stating that their ratio of contribution to payout was about 0.8. (Only 20% on admin? Damn!) The big names -- Red Cross, etc. -- were ruled out almost immediately after looking at their annual reports. Basically, learn to read an annual report and give only to charities whose *TOTAL* cost of administration -- including the bits they try to hide! -- is under 50% of donations. |
LC Sez:
| |
![]() |
|
| Kleptonis | Aug 28 2006, 03:25 AM Post #44 |
![]()
Disgraced Dictator
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I personally prefer to donate material things rather than money, like blood. Don't tell me they take 75% of that too.
|
![]() |
|
| 严加华 | Aug 28 2006, 05:04 AM Post #45 |
|
Magister Ludicrous
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I donated blood regularly while I was in Canada. I don't do it here because I don't trust them to do it properly. |
LC Sez:
| |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| « Previous Topic · Politics and Religion · Next Topic » |





![]](http://z2.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)




You see, diseases -- infectious ones -- know no class boundaries. AIDS started in Africa, for example, and is still most lethal there. But it has spread around the world. Wealthy countries paying to kill diseases in poor countries is a far better investment of tax dollars than is all that crappy technology the USA has to slaughter and murder in ever-increasing numbers.
), nobody in the USA gave a damn, really. You were safe. But an aerosol-spread version of it? Would have slaughtered your entire country with stunning speed (not to mention every other country in the world). And viruses are notoriously mutation-prone.... 

12:35 AM Jul 11