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What commands your loyalty?
Government 0 (0%)
Country 6 (40%)
Neither 9 (60%)
Total Votes: 15
The Man; don't like him?
Topic Started: Aug 16 2006, 02:46 PM (730 Views)
Necronomicon
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omar comin' yo
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As a Canadian, I like my government, for the most part. High taxes are generally the biggest complaint, but I do get free healthcare. Personally, I do not consider the two (government and country) to be one and the same. That being the case, I will not volunteer for military service unless I deem there is a threat to my country's sovereignty. I guess you could call me a nationalist, though I've never called myself such. I'm no chauvinist.

I don't know precisely why I deem Canada as a country as being worth defending to my life; after all, you can't choose where you're born. It's just the way I'm wired, I guess. I have an idea that is Canada, and I consider that idea worth protecting.

I don't think that I'd ever die for a government. And if there was a government that I felt betrayed what I consider Canada to be, I might even fight against it.

Of course, these are all far-fetched scenarios. Bloody revolution in Ottawa? Enemy planes bombarding Canadian cities? Seems ridiculous right now, anyway.

So how about your country?
omar yo. omar comin
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Delta_38
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Disgraced Dictator
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As long as I am a citizen of the US I will defend her to my death.
I certainly won't be classed with the cowards who won't defend their home, be it birth or adopted. Save the 'no- one chooses their birth country' BS for the UN.
Cowardice is never a virtue, despite what some here think.
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The Mandalorians will triumph! For Clan Ordo!
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piercehawkeye45
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Franklin Pierce
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I will defend my country if it is attacked or is threatened.

Military service is an issue I don't think many people understand. As a citizen you have some obligations to your country. In time of need, a citizen should fight and maybe die to protect their home. If you will not fight leave the country, you do not belong here.

There is an exception, if your government is corrupt or they are fighting something that is irrelevant, that is different story.

Nationalism is form of identity; humans need identity to get a sense of belonging.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
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Chris Larkin
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Planning World Domination
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I'm agreeing with Necronomicon largely here. I'd never die to defend my government, but I would consider defending my country, if there were a good reason. Mind you, being a selfish bastard when it comes to my survival over others', it'd have to be a very good reason.

I suppose there could be a bit of a conflict of interest with regards to nationality. Am I British, or am I English? I'm not really bothered at the moment, but it might become relevent in the event of things, and I have no preference for one over the other.
A squatter's made a mural of a Mexican girl,
With fifteen cans of spray paint in a chemical swirl.
She's standing in the ashes at the end of the world,
Four winds blowing through her hair.
- Bright Eyes
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piercehawkeye45
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Franklin Pierce
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What's the difference between British and English?
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
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Flamingo
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Penis goes in here
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piercehawkeye45
Aug 16 2006, 08:41 PM
What's the difference between British and English?

In the British language, they call a bathroom "loo". :D
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Chris Larkin
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Planning World Domination
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piercehawkeye45
Aug 16 2006, 09:41 PM
What's the difference between British and English?

w00t! I love explaining this to people who don't know. Sad, eh? :lol:

Great Britain consists of England, as well as Wales and Scotland.
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is that, with Northern Ireland as well.
England is just England alone.

For most purposes, the UK and GB are used interchangably, even by people here, despite being slightly different. However, people tend to get a bit ratty with you if get mixed up between these places and England, which are very different in the minds of us.

The important difference is to do with government. The major laws in all countries of Great Britain are made at the Houses of Parliament, in Westminster, London. All laws in England are made there. However, Scotland has the Scottish Assembly, and Wales has the Welsh Assembly, which make some laws regarding their individual nations. Northern Ireland now has most of its laws made in Belfast, although Northern Irish MPs are entitled to sit in the Houses Of Parliament.

There is a problem with this, in that Scottish (and Welsh, to a lesser extent) MPs are allowed to vote on many laws which do not affect their nations, but affect only England. This obviously means that they are deciding issues not directly affecting the people who voted them in, and they are not directly answerable whom the laws affect, because there is no English Assembly (nor any prospect of one) to balance things.. There is a proposal to make MPs vote only on issues affecting the country they are elected in, which I expect will be passed within a few decades, and this apparent unfairness in the system will be removed.

England is not a sovereign nation, but it tends to play sport seperate from the rest of the United Kingdom, and this seems to be the basis of our national identity these days. This means that many are more accepting of England as their home country than the United Kingdom, and so, if a situation did arise where there this was a problem, it would be interesting to see what people did.

flamingoboy511
 
In the British language, they call a bathroom "loo". :D

That we do. Or 'bog', Or 'lav', Or 'crapper' and many other things besides.
A squatter's made a mural of a Mexican girl,
With fifteen cans of spray paint in a chemical swirl.
She's standing in the ashes at the end of the world,
Four winds blowing through her hair.
- Bright Eyes
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Necronomicon
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omar comin' yo
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Delta_38
Aug 16 2006, 03:09 PM
Save the 'no- one chooses their birth country' BS for the UN.

So if you'd been born in Palestine, we could've counted you down for a high-explosive jacket and a tube of ball bearings?
omar yo. omar comin
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Dizzarth Stumpy
Pessimist
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would i die for my country or government? i don't know, it's never come up...

Delta_38
Aug 16 2006, 01:09 PM
Save the 'no- one chooses their birth country' BS for the UN.


but nobody DOES... extreme nationalism is a stupid thing, especially nowadays... it is ideals that should be fought and died for, not lines on a map that were created simply as a means to distribute capital...
STUMPY WAS RIGHT. HIS TOUCHING SOLILOQUY HAS MOVED ME, TRULY A MANIPULATOR OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. I HAVE ALLOWED HIM USAGE OF HIS PREVIOUS ACCOUNT.
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NeoAegis
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Israel thug life
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Darth Stumpy
Aug 16 2006, 09:40 PM
it is ideals that should be fought and died for, not lines on a map that were created simply as a means to distribute capital...

Stumpy wins the thread.

I wouldn't die for my government, neither birth nor adopted. I would be more inclined to fight for my birth country, but it'd still have to be a hell of a reason. I'll fight for ideals, however.
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Tom Joad
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Gap tooth so my dick's got to fit.
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If by government do you mean Democracy? Because being the brain-washed American that I am, I am quite partial to it. If by government you mean, go die in the desert so that Dubya has more oil, no.

If worst came to worst and there was a real war that was for a good reason I would fight along side my fellow countrymen.

So I don't know what to vote for. I'm not saying you have to fight for your country, but I would. I don't like drafts.
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Dr. Jim
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Nihil estis, Omnes sum
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I'll side with whichever side happens to have a gun to my head at the moment. I'll be damned if I'm going to throw my life away to defend an idea or system. If history is any example, and it's the only example, things'll change no matter how many times I kill myself to change them again.
...Matt was no exception to this. When he stood in the street and noticed his chest started to really hurt again, he made the decision to look down. He screamed like a grown man would scream when that grown man sees a laser burning his chest, and that is like a little girl...
-From Super Naked Moose Man
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Kleptonis
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In the event of a war, I probably would "fight" for whichever group I felt would benefit the world more (within reason of course - if America invades Djibouti and I decide I like Djibouti better, I probably wouldn't bother because they'd be steamrolled).

Now I put "fight" in quotations because it's my personal hope that I'm incapable of putting a person into a gun's crosshairs and firing to kill. I'd reluctantly shoot a person nonlethally if it meant stopping them from shooting me or someone else, but I consider the capacity to willingly kill a concious human being (or, if you prefer more loaded terms, parent, child, or spouse - after all their family will probably miss them as much as yours would miss you) to be one of the most despicable facets of humanity. So what I mean to say is that I would far prefer working in battlefield medicine or diplomacy, and if forced to shoot at people I probably wouldn't.

As far as nationalism being part of a person's identity, I don't see why it must be. There's plenty of things a person belongs to - humanity, their family, their ideology, their religion, themselves. I consider all of those (except religion - religious wars are never any good*) better reasons to fight than for your country.

*If you thought to yourself "What about the crusades?", please read history.
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Dizzarth Stumpy
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Kleptonis
Aug 16 2006, 07:58 PM
(religious wars are never any good*)

*If you thought to yourself "What about the crusades?", please read history.

woah, have you actually run into people who thought the crusades were good? i know i haven't... i always thought it was commonly accepted that they were a bad thing...
STUMPY WAS RIGHT. HIS TOUCHING SOLILOQUY HAS MOVED ME, TRULY A MANIPULATOR OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. I HAVE ALLOWED HIM USAGE OF HIS PREVIOUS ACCOUNT.
EHRHRHRHRNGGHH
LC is the best and brought back my embarassing sex tapes.
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Kleptonis
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Disgraced Dictator
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Darth Stumpy
Aug 17 2006, 03:05 AM
Kleptonis
Aug 16 2006, 07:58 PM
(religious wars are never any good*)

*If you thought to yourself "What about the crusades?", please read history.

woah, have you actually run into people who thought the crusades were good? i know i haven't... i always thought it was commonly accepted that they were a bad thing...

Unfortunately, a good amount of people I know know next to nothing about history, let alone the Crusades. All they tend to know about the Crusades is that it was Christians fighting for the Holy Land.
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