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Guantanamo Bay; That Facility in Cuba
Topic Started: Sep 13 2006, 12:13 AM (1,280 Views)
Flamingo
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What are your opinions on Guantanamo Bay? Should it be open or closed?
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Tom Joad
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Shut it down.

If we don't, then we at least shouldn't complain about what tactics Iraqi freedom fighters are using.
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Tech Junkie
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A misapplication of the term "torture"

Lack of sleep, loud music being blasted through the facility, all religious and dietary needs met: Sounds like how I live now

Strip searches and all that other nudity: Well, it is a prison

Female interrogators being used: Where was that sign-up sheet again?

What were the other complaints (excluding isolated incidents)?
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Necronomicon
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Yeah, there isn't such a thing as 'psychological' torture. It has to spill blood on the ground, or else it doesn't count. Hell, that's the definition the Inquisition used, it should be good enough for us.
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Irockwayhard
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Guantanamo is a relatively media-friendly military prison. You shut it down, where do all the "detainees" go? Not to other media friendly prisons. Either back to their home country's prisons - countries that don't neccessarily have to follow the Geneva Convention protocols, or at least aren't as closely watched as the US - or they are going to go to these "secret" US-run military bases, putside of our media's reach.

It's kind of the "lessser of two evils" thing.
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Comrade Jim
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Shut it down

Everytime someone calls a Iraqi insurgent a "freedom fighter" I will kill a puppy. So don't do it ok?
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Tech Junkie
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Necronomicon
Sep 13 2006, 08:20 AM
Yeah, there isn't such a thing as 'psychological' torture. It has to spill blood on the ground, or else it doesn't count. Hell, that's the definition the Inquisition used, it should be good enough for us.

Noone said there wasn't a such thing as psychological torture. The argument is what falls under that definition. According to some people, yelling at others is emotional abuse. Does that mean we torture our own soldiers for weeks (see: basic training).

What do you define as psychological torture? Ticking clocks at Stalingrad, perhaps? A couple weeks of sleep depravation (not just cutting them down to a few hours). . .
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Tom Joad
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I'm not so worried about the torture as I am with the thought of being kidnapped and never knowing when are going to be let free (if you are).

OK from now on I won't call them terrorists or freedom fighters, I will just use the term Iraqi fighters, because it has no positive or negative conotation.
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Flamingo
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I don't think we should shut it down. The prisoners there probably deserve to be there. It also sounds like they have great food over there.
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Dizzarth Stumpy
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flamingoboy511
Sep 13 2006, 02:47 PM
I don't think we should shut it down. The prisoners there probably deserve to be there.

that's the problem, see.. if i remember correctly, the prisoners there haven't been CHARGED with anything, and the logic to keeping them there is "they're in guantanamo because they're probably guilty, and they're probably guity because they're in guantanamo", which is circular logic, and thus, complete bullshit... i'm not saying everyone in there should be set FREE, but they need to be charged and given a fair trial...
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Flamingo
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That's where i have problems with Guantanamo. They should be given a fair trial, no matter who they are.
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Dr. Jim
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I kind of like having a military instiliation in Cuba.
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Kleptonis
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Darth Stumpy
Sep 13 2006, 09:59 PM
flamingoboy511
Sep 13 2006, 02:47 PM
I don't think we should shut it down. The prisoners there probably deserve to be there.

that's the problem, see.. if i remember correctly, the prisoners there haven't been CHARGED with anything, and the logic to keeping them there is "they're in guantanamo because they're probably guilty, and they're probably guity because they're in guantanamo", which is circular logic, and thus, complete bullshit... i'm not saying everyone in there should be set FREE, but they need to be charged and given a fair trial...

And the problem we hear about giving them a free trial is that if they're found innocent, there will be a few of them who are bitter about their experience and do what we thought were detaining them for in the first place - blowing stuff up.

Guatanamo amounts to one vicious cycle on another.
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Necronomicon
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Comrade Jim
Sep 13 2006, 02:11 PM
Everytime someone calls a Iraqi insurgent a "freedom fighter" I will kill a puppy. So don't do it ok?

Any particular reason you object to the term? I mean, they are fighting a foreign occupying army over there. It just happens to be yours.

Tech Junkie
Sep 13 2006, 02:43 PM
Noone said there wasn't a such thing as psychological torture. The argument is what falls under that definition. According to some people, yelling at others is emotional abuse. Does that mean we torture our own soldiers for weeks (see: basic training).

What do you define as psychological torture? Ticking clocks at Stalingrad, perhaps? A couple weeks of sleep depravation (not just cutting them down to a few hours). . .


Well, who really draws lines anymore.

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Tech Junkie
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Styx Ferryman
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Quite interesting. I may have trouble comparing metallica 24/7 and sleep-deprivation to, say, rape rooms, but we didn't do that, so I suppose it doesn't count . . .

Or perhaps it's all the same, meaning there's some sort of absolute standard after which applying such techniques to persons not covered by the Geneva Convention (i.e. not uniformed soldiers operating under a sovreign government) is considered totally reprehensible and identical reguardless of the actual differences in severity.


Of course, if the were playing Nelly 24/7, I would be personally petitioning for the place's immediate closure and destruction. There are certain lines not to be crossed.
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