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Guantanamo Bay; That Facility in Cuba
Topic Started: Sep 13 2006, 12:13 AM (1,279 Views)
Mister Sinister
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Delusional Granduerist
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I think it was Thomas Jefferson that believed a Rebellion or Revolution, should take place at least once a decade, for the sole purpose of keeping the governing body on it's proverbial toes. Is that right?
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Comrade Jim
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The Apocalypse Itself
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Dr Jim-
Iraqis of course had many of the freedoms I listed but thier human rights were too often abused to be counted as free and we are denied those freedoms infrequently enough to say that we are free.
It's only dangerous to give the masses freedom if they are only used to heavy oppression and have had generations of it, most of the time it's too dangerous to deny the people these freedoms and allow the government to do as it wishes.

Mister Sinister- (I saw your picture in a assembly about euthansia on Friday and it made me jump when I recognised that sinister avatar of yours)
Florida 2000 was really a one off (last rigged one was with JFK I do believe) and it was only a few hundred votes changed so was hardly a massive coup. And as you claim if both political parties are supposedly the same why would they have to manipulate the elections?
There are only two candidates for President as it is more convient that way and America is majority white so the president is most likely to be white.
Big business unfairly influences the parties but they are hardly pawns. And you are viewing politicans as completely one-dimensional villains with only money as thier possible motive in life- real life is far more complex than that.
15 or 20 years is quite harsh but drugs fund crime both though the user stealing to get the money for the drugs and the criminals that sell them using them to fund far less pleasant crimes.
You get a fair trial most of the time one side may have a better chance with a better lawyer but you don't get the ku klux klan shouting "kill the nigger!" from the Jury stand or automatic sentencing in a military basement somewhere.
The government isn't watching you for gods sake, you see Jon Steward or Micheal Moore (utter bastard I might add) being arrested? Or anyone else for that matter?
With 70% of the population against Bush and a good proportion ready to speak out against him thats a hell of a lot of dodgy arrests that would have to occur. Sacco and Venzetti- they are two nutters for EIGHTY years ago and really aren't relevant at all its like using statistics from the 1930s to prove no one in America drinks alcohol.

Paranoia, paranoia
Everybody's coming to get me
Just say you never met me
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Dr. Jim
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Comrade Jim
Oct 8 2006, 11:10 AM
Dr Jim-
Iraqis of course had many of the freedoms I listed but thier human rights were too often abused to be counted as free and we are denied those freedoms infrequently enough to say that we are free.
It's only dangerous to give the masses freedom if they are only used to heavy oppression and have had generations of it, most of the time it's too dangerous to deny the people these freedoms and allow the government to do as it wishes.

Mister Sinister- (I saw your picture in a assembly about euthansia on Friday and it made me jump when I recognised that sinister avatar of yours)

You know the guy in that picture? He's in the Manistee County Jail about a half an hour away from my house :D .

Well, you have to try and consider what are "Human rights." People seem to think nowadays that they are entitled to a whole lot more than they really deserve. Especially here, where we think it's some sort of natural law that we have all the human rights we're told we have.
The masses are Human, and given freedom they will behave like Humans. No matter how well trained they have been, as soon as there is no more training (well, maybe after a few weeks), it shall be pandemonium. People are greedy, clan based, violent creatures.
...Matt was no exception to this. When he stood in the street and noticed his chest started to really hurt again, he made the decision to look down. He screamed like a grown man would scream when that grown man sees a laser burning his chest, and that is like a little girl...
-From Super Naked Moose Man
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Mister Sinister
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Quote:
 
Florida 2000 was really a one off (last rigged one was with JFK I do believe) and it was only a few hundred votes changed so was hardly a massive coup. And as you claim if both political parties are supposedly the same why would they have to manipulate the elections?



It was more like a few thousand, and I wouldn't call it a coup, I call it using the law of the land against the people of the land. People were forced out of the polls for various reasonings, i.e. something as simple as having the same LAST name, not even full name, as a convicted felon. Also votes were counted and recounted..ah I'm not going into the particulars....I wouldn't call it a coup, just a subversion of the people's will, to gain power.

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And you are viewing politicans as completely one-dimensional villains with only money as thier possible motive in life- real life is far more complex than that.


Both parties are the same in the sense that they only care about being in power, so they can variously manipulate laws and statutes, to better their bank account.
Hell, even Boss Tweed did some good for New York, even though he and his cronies grafted millions of dollars and put the city so far in debt, it is still aching a little, today.

Both party nominations are white because there is still a huge racist element in the US. Case in point, Colin Powell never ran for president, because some crazy asshole (or group of assholes) would find a way to kill him. His family received death threats even before he was ever considered for the Repub Nomination. Same thing with a Jewish or Italian candidate. White America, just loves it's white protestants, that is why JFK used the mob to get the unions to turn out the lights in WV, because he was Catholic, and NEVER NEVER NEVER could have won the protestant vote in WV, ever.

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15 or 20 years is quite harsh but drugs fund crime both though the user stealing to get the money for the drugs and the criminals that sell them using them to fund far less pleasant crimes.


This is basically the same error you accused me of making. One dimensional characters and all. Not all drug users have to steal to get their fix. I worked with a guy at a Red Lobster (restaurant), who was hoplessly addicted to crack. He was a white male from the UK and he worked his ass off. He consistently beat the non-addicted waiters in tips, earning some 30 to 100$ MORE a night in tips. He used almost all of this money for his drug problem. Hell of a nice guy, I'll never forget him, just that he had a problem, and if he ever got caught buying, he would wind up in prison for 15 or 20 years...Hardly seems fair. Same with the drug dealer. More commonly known as my neighbor. A man or sometimes a couple, grows and distributes Marijuana from their basement. They know a certain ring of people who they distribute to, and they use the money for groceries, so they can save enought o send their child to college. Law abiding citizens with real jobs, and a poor decision at least to earn supplimantal cash. Should they ever be caught, they will lose everything, House Car, CHILD, and go to prison for 15 or 20 years, with NO shot of having a life ever again, or ever seeing their child again. Hardly seems fair. No one's life is ruined until the law is enforced. Then several lives are shattered, all because some guy from the thirties did not like pot, because it was competition for his pocket funds in textiles.

Which brings us to
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Sacco and Venzetti- they are two nutters for EIGHTY years ago and really aren't relevant at all its like using statistics from the 1930s


Everything we have done in America's history has legal relevance due to our judicial system, it's basically the history of court. Everything that is decided today, is based on what had been decided in the past. It's called precedent. If there is no precendant, then they have a harder time deciding. Sacco and Venzetti might have been Nuts, but they were innocent of the crime they were being charged with. Put to death because the government said they were something they weren't, Anarchists. Kind of releveant considering the Govmnt now calls them military combatants.

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The government isn't watching you for gods sake, you see Jon Steward or Micheal Moore (utter bastard I might add) being arrested? Or anyone else for that matter?
With 70% of the population against Bush and a good proportion ready to speak out against him thats a hell of a lot of dodgy arrests that would have to occur.


They don't have to be arrests, and they are certainly not going to arrest anyone in the public spotlight, but we here in the states, constantly hear about our own government taking CITIZENS of arab descent to so-called "Black Sites", outside the US, for interogation of questionable means, for an indefinate amount of time.
It's much easier to discredit someone in the limelight, than take them down with force. The government employs various tactics aside from arrest and murder.


One of my favorite quotes, I do not remember where I heard it.

"How can I be paranoid, man, if the fuckers out there who are making me paranoid are really out there?"
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严加华
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Magister Ludicrous
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Mister Sinister
Oct 25 2006, 01:56 AM
[...]I wouldn't call it a coup, just a subversion of the people's will, to gain power.

Which I would call "partisan democracy". The very notion of political parties -- no matter how many you have -- subverts the people's will in a democracy. It's why I have no particular faith in democracy any longer.
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