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| The Terrorists Have Won; Just not in conventional war | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 14 2006, 12:31 AM (975 Views) | |
| Flamingo | Sep 16 2006, 02:14 AM Post #46 |
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Penis goes in here
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There is no point leaving Iraq now, we're already in there. If we leave, all chaos will break out in Iraq and all the soldiers and civilians would've died for nothing. |
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| Kleptonis | Sep 16 2006, 03:20 AM Post #47 |
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Disgraced Dictator
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Why must we justify every death? Yes, it's a tragedy, but we can't expect every death in war to have brought about a change for the better. There's a time when it's just as appropriate to sit down, look at the mess in front of us, say "Oh, shit," and decide to end the carnage where it is. At least we might learn something from it, rather than stubbornly waiting for a goal that might never come. And of course there's a point to leaving Iraq. We're losing troops money, political influence, and resources. I'd say there were definitely better ways to have spent all of the above. The issue lies in whether or not you think the cost is worth the risk. |
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| Flamingo | Sep 16 2006, 11:58 AM Post #48 |
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Penis goes in here
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Still, we shouldn't leave Iraq because it is still too unstable [Even though it will probably always be unstable]. We need to finish what we started. [So many of you are so not going to agree.
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| Altanese | Sep 16 2006, 02:40 PM Post #49 |
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Apocalyptic Usher
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Humans scan the conversations, correct? Well then people are listening in; it doesn't matter if they are working for the government or not.
And it was under a stable; though arguably violent; government before America invaded. All we got rid of was the stable part.
There won't be a finish; America is fighting a terribly assymetric war, one which cannot be won by military might, but rather political and economic pressures, along with a few tactical strikes by small groups of elite forces when needed. |
| Deep unspeakable suffering may well be called a baptism, a regeneration, the initiation into a new state. | |
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| Flamingo | Sep 16 2006, 02:44 PM Post #50 |
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Penis goes in here
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All i know is, the "War on Terror" will not be over in awhile, maybe never, if half of America likes it or not. Protests seems to do no good in changing the presidents mind. We have to wait and see what the next president wants to do. |
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| Necronomicon | Sep 16 2006, 09:22 PM Post #51 |
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omar comin' yo
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The 'War on Terror' is similar to the 'War on Drugs', in that you can't really wage war against either of them. Terrorism is just the popular 20th century name for 'violence your authority doesn't like'. While there remain any divisive issues on the planet: money, power, religion, politics, racism, misogyny, etc., violence will remain. And that violence will be labeled. I'd like someone to tell me what the goal of the War on Terror is. What is it supposed to attain? World peace? |
| omar yo. omar comin | |
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| Flamingo | Sep 16 2006, 09:25 PM Post #52 |
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Penis goes in here
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People would hope World Peace. But i hear Bush is just using this "war" as an excuse to obtain oil fields in the middle east. |
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| Mister Sinister | Sep 18 2006, 02:57 PM Post #53 |
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Delusional Granduerist
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Remember when "terrorism" was know as "Guerilla warfare"? ah, those were the days. And yes Pierce, I was talking to you. Why not just leave Iraq. It is a quagmire (ga-giggity). What consequences would we possibly face if we left Iraq. Let's see...No more troops dying, No more Iraqi civilians being harrased by burnt out, over worked and exhausted troops, that don't know ratshit from rice krispies when it comes to Iraqi culture. No more money being spent over there, no more soldiers accused of rape and murder. Men and women who haven't seen the states in THREE YEARS, home with their families. Ummm...You said there was a downside? To answer your question, Necro. The war on terror, is supposed to attain a perpetual war economy, for the US. Think about the open-endedness of the language. This war could apply to any nation deemed dangerous. We could deem ANY nation dangerous. You see, the US needs to constantly be in war in order for our economy to be more stable. What better war could be fought than an open-ended one in any number of nations, for an undeterminate amount of time. Look back at everything we have, militarily, done since WW2. That is when we figured out that we were good at War, and War brings money, and money brings Consolodation of power in the business world, which brings more money. Before WW2 there were something like 90 companies building for defense contracts, that made money for about 32% of the population. Today, some 13 odd companies build for defense contracts, making approximately 9% of the population stinking filthy rich. If the fat cats don't make money, the politicians don't make money. The only way the Fat cats can make enough money is to be in the business of killing people. It has nothing to do with 9/11 or Osama bin Laden. This war is about cold hard cash, and there can never be enough bodies to fill that demand. So for those of you who want to keep fighting, just know that every soldier dead equals a bonus for American Business, and every drop of gas you burn, equals a drop of human blood spilled for "The Cause". Someone said in previous posts that this was a war to be fought by police work and intelligence gathering. So why are we trying to create a battlefield for it? Why stop giving money to New York for Homeland Security, and sink it into Oklahoma? Why? Why? Why? The answer is GREED. |
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| Necronomicon | Sep 18 2006, 07:13 PM Post #54 |
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omar comin' yo
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Huzzah. |
| omar yo. omar comin | |
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| piercehawkeye45 | Sep 18 2006, 07:25 PM Post #55 |
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Franklin Pierce
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From America's point of view it is good to leave Iraq, unless you're a redneck. How is it from Iraq's point of view? If it is better for Iraqies if we leave Iraq then by all means leave Iraq. If it isn't better for the Iraqies, then we have the problem. |
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Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed I'm America! I have found the enemy and he is us. | |
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| Dr. Jim | Sep 18 2006, 07:34 PM Post #56 |
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Nihil estis, Omnes sum
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The person scanning your calls doesn't see your name. They don't know anything about you. They only know to listen for cue words or phrases. They've been doing this for eight hours a day for the last few years. They've heard it all, they don't care about your rash. It's impersonal, so privacy doesn't matter. |
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...Matt was no exception to this. When he stood in the street and noticed his chest started to really hurt again, he made the decision to look down. He screamed like a grown man would scream when that grown man sees a laser burning his chest, and that is like a little girl... -From Super Naked Moose Man | |
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| Mister Sinister | Sep 18 2006, 08:00 PM Post #57 |
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Delusional Granduerist
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Let see, soldiers stop killing innocent Iraqis, whether on purpose or accident, it happens, so that will end if we leave. Sectarian violence may slow down as a result of our NON prescence. I assume it would slow down when we left because it sure did heat up when we went. I am not talking about "just leaving", we should start by having some sort of plan to begin with. Since no PLAN of ACTION has been formulated, there we are, perpetually at war in an oil rich region until it is no longer profitable to do so. It doesn't matter about popular vote, who the next president is, or how many Insurgents are killed. This will not end until all of that crude is sucked dry, and the people used up... the US then turns to leave everything reduced to smoldering ashes. But, Bush can't say that any more than they can just hit you over the head and take your wallet on April 15th. That doesn't stop me from feeling like that is what happened. And Fighting for Iraq's safety is a quite mute point considering the only thing that ALL Iraqis can agree on is the US needs to leave. Is that a fair reason? |
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| piercehawkeye45 | Sep 18 2006, 08:41 PM Post #58 |
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Franklin Pierce
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If you prove that to me, I will agree with you completely. |
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Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed I'm America! I have found the enemy and he is us. | |
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| Necronomicon | Sep 19 2006, 07:41 PM Post #59 |
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omar comin' yo
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You'd need to define your criterion for proof. |
| omar yo. omar comin | |
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| Mister Sinister | Sep 19 2006, 09:21 PM Post #60 |
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Delusional Granduerist
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Well, during the drafting of their constitution, the sectarian differences became all too painfully clear, to the western world. The Shi'ites and Sunni's and Kurds, and who has what and stands where and so forth, but they stalled for weeks because of the long standing feuds between these sects. One of the very forst things they decided was that if the US left, it would be easier for them to negotiate between cultures, since the US was basically pushing and pushing for them to come to terms with sharing the country (something Saddaam forced them to do) they felt with no US voice to stir the shit, they could get a lot more done. As far as proof of that, well, NPR has reported several times on it, but I don't have actual broadcast notes or anything. That aside Pierce, What is the upside to staying? If you can give me ONE upside, that is not right wing rhetoric, then I'll Agree completely with you, and I promise to be fair minded.
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