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The Afterlife; Heaven and Hell
Topic Started: Oct 6 2006, 08:34 AM (1,204 Views)
Zer0
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LOEV 2 KONSOLE
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This is pure speculation and theory-- don't think too much into this...
Anyways--

If we're all going to be roaming around the ever plentiful Heaven, or the ever malevolent Hell, there must be some sort of government to rule over its inhabitants. Let's face it, if we're free to do what we desire, there are going some people doing some "interesting" things that probably shouldn't be happening. So, what government would these deities instate? When we go to Heaven, are we stripped of all sinful pleasures? When we go to Hell are our sinful pleasures re-inacted in diabolic scenarios?

Chode and I had a discussion about this earlier today and I thought i'd bring the discussion onto Mundi.

Lastly, if the Devil really is as witty and malevolent as he is described, he must have the most diabolical sense of sarcasm and satire. He'd have a badass comeback for anything.
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Dizzarth Stumpy
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governments wouldn't be necessary, if my knowledge of typical heaven and hell lore is correct..
hell is less of a society and more of a massive, complex torture facility... you wont have time to think, let alone do anything the "rulers" don't like, if you're constantly living out your worst nightmares...
heaven is a blissful paradise, directly "ruled" by an omnipotent being, he doesn't need a government to instate rules for two reasons:
1. the inhabitants are filled with such euphoric contentment they have no REASON to break whatever rules heaven has and
2. god can do an infinite amount of things in an infinitesimally small amount of time... he doesn't need to micromanage because he can do literally EVERYTHING in literally NO TIME if he wants to...
STUMPY WAS RIGHT. HIS TOUCHING SOLILOQUY HAS MOVED ME, TRULY A MANIPULATOR OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. I HAVE ALLOWED HIM USAGE OF HIS PREVIOUS ACCOUNT.
EHRHRHRHRNGGHH
LC is the best and brought back my embarassing sex tapes.
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FallenDeku
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I feel the heavens would be ruled as a true state of Fascism.
At the top we have the deity, a council of angels and the like below and at the bottom the masses which is where we lie.

Of course, as history shows, this only really works if your masses aren't going to rebel.
As a result we must be effectively sinless. If we attain this state because we actually are sinless or have our wills stripped from us remains to be seen, and I for one can hold off finding out.

The hells are not all this dissimilar.
At the top we have the fallen angels, if one presides over the others then so be it but I doubt it makes that much of a difference. Below them we have the damned who were turned away by heaven.
Now it quickly becomes obvious, these people were turned from heaven as they were unable to abide by order, so why would hell succeed where heaven has failed? It doesn't, and the lowest tier is in effect anarchy. However, with countless parties vying for control no one can attain any standing above any other and they partake in a perpetual struggle.
If this if the damnation of hell, then so be it.




Thinking about this has made me stumble across another thought.

Could it be that the Devil does not rule hell as we have thought, but rather is its longest serving prisoner?
My reason being that is the Devil was to torture us because we have sinned, that would be playing into God's will, which we know the Devil stands against.

Also it is said that God damns those who turn against him to hell, just as was done to the fallen angels. Now, what would be the point of damning them to hell if there wasn't anything there to be damned to?
This leads one to suspect that there is another presiding deity, maybe the same God, maybe another, that in turn follows the will of the other in punishing those banished for their sins.
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Altanese
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It's a common misconception that Hell has a ruler (well, Christian Hell doesn't) Lucifer is said to be tortured just like any other damned soul. Anyone else ever read Dante's Inferno?

And on that note; if God isn't a TOTAL jerk, then hell is merely a temporary place that nearly all souls go to to clense away their sins before entering Paradise. And really, for Paradise to be a true Paradise (not just some place where you are on a constant euphoric high) it must have at least a few negative things as well.

Of course, this has nothing to do with the topic....
Deep unspeakable suffering may well be called a baptism, a regeneration, the initiation into a new state.
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piercehawkeye45
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Well I have to agree with Altanese and add that there is no way to have a just god, no free will, and a hell. Back on topic...

One theory is heaven is just where you have the best moment of your life replayed over and over again for eternity

Then for hell it's the worst moment of your life. Another theory is that you live the life of someone who made a living hell on earth (if you're going to hell it's probably for a reason) and live their life on replay but it's n (pick your number) times worst.
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Dr. Jim
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Communism for heaven. No one better than anyone else and focus on the individual.
Fascism for hell. Some better than others and the individual meaningless.
...Matt was no exception to this. When he stood in the street and noticed his chest started to really hurt again, he made the decision to look down. He screamed like a grown man would scream when that grown man sees a laser burning his chest, and that is like a little girl...
-From Super Naked Moose Man
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FallenDeku
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Dr. Jim
Oct 6 2006, 01:46 PM
Communism for heaven. No one better than anyone else and focus on the individual.
Fascism for hell. Some better than others and the individual meaningless.

But for a communism to work one would have to place themselves on the same level as God.
Also it is generally accepted there are many different ranks of the angels, how can this exist in a communist environment?

Now I realise that no communist state is perfect like that, but this is heaven we're talking about.
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Zer0
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The thought of Hell and Heaven being nations and having riots would make for a good novel.
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Tom Joad
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Zer0
Oct 6 2006, 06:36 PM
The thought of Hell and Heaven being nations and having riots would make for a good novel.

No just Hell. Heaven would be too boring (Mendyk).
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Flamingo
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The hell i beleive in, there would be no government. They would be to busy being tortured to do anything. As for heaven, my heaven has it that people don't do bad things there. Why else would they have gone there? :D
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Muller
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In God's eyes everyone is equal, so in heaven there can't be any government. And there is no such thing as hell.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
-Seneca the Younger
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Dr. Jim
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FallenDeku
Oct 6 2006, 08:53 AM
Dr. Jim
Oct 6 2006, 01:46 PM
Communism for heaven. No one better than anyone else and focus on the individual.
Fascism for hell. Some better than others and the individual meaningless.

But for a communism to work one would have to place themselves on the same level as God.
Also it is generally accepted there are many different ranks of the angels, how can this exist in a communist environment?

Now I realise that no communist state is perfect like that, but this is heaven we're talking about.

Hmmm, I didn't think of that.

In that case Heaven is a monarchy. You've got the King (duh), the aristocracy (Angels), and the [happy] proles (man).
You know what, Hell is too. You've got the king (duh), the aristocracy (demonic hordes), and the [unhappy] proles (man).
...Matt was no exception to this. When he stood in the street and noticed his chest started to really hurt again, he made the decision to look down. He screamed like a grown man would scream when that grown man sees a laser burning his chest, and that is like a little girl...
-From Super Naked Moose Man
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Kalkin
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What government in Heaven and Hell? Look around you. There are several democracies, few dictatorships and couple of socialisms. That right, this world we live in is Heaven AND Hell. There is nowhere else we go after death. I'll tell you a little hypothetical story: This world began as a Paradise (also known as Heaven). All was good and all our wants, wishes and expectations came true (Notice, not just positive ones, but negative ones as well.).

Edited by Kalkin, Sep 2 2011, 02:11 AM.
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Zer0
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Altanese
Oct 6 2006, 05:26 AM
Then hell is merely a temporary place that nearly all souls go to to clense away their sins before entering Paradise.


Similar to a more painful purgatory?
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Altanese
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Zer0
Oct 7 2006, 11:10 PM
Similar to a more painful purgatory?

Depends on your view of Purgatory and Hell(s), including if one exists and the other doesn't. Or really fun; niether exists and all souls are clensed as they enter Paradise.

To Kalkin: Are you advocating overthrowing all civilization and going back to hunter-gatherer family units like apes?
Deep unspeakable suffering may well be called a baptism, a regeneration, the initiation into a new state.
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