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Islam; Q&A thread about Islam, ask away!
Topic Started: Nov 3 2006, 09:25 PM (6,335 Views)
Blackrider5
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Welcome one and all! I made this thread to answer any questtions one may have about my faith. So if you people want to know about my personal views as a Muslim, or about the Muslim world in general, fire away, my friends! Just a few things:

1. I will not accept insults about my faith.

2. If you want to get into a heavy debate about Islam, do it on another thread. This is Q&A, although some light discussion is OK, I just don't want to deviate from this thread's original subject and purpose.

3. Being as I'm only human, I do not claim myself to be an infallible source of information ( however I will try to be as accurate as humanly possible), or that my views are necessarily commonly shared by the general Muslim populace.

Fire away, people! B)
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NeoAegis
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Blackrider5
Nov 3 2006, 04:25 PM
1. I will not accept insults about my faith.

We'll take care of that for ya.
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Blackrider5
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NeoAegis
Nov 3 2006, 09:29 PM
Blackrider5
Nov 3 2006, 04:25 PM
1. I will not accept insults about my faith.

We'll take care of that for ya.

Tanx. ;)
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Flamingo
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So do Islamic people believe in Hell?
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Bigfoot
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flamingo
Nov 3 2006, 10:18 PM
So do Islamic people believe in Hell?

I think so.
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Flamingo
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Also, tell me all about the holidays you celebrate. I would normally go to wikipedia for all of this, but I'd rather ask you Blackrider.
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严加华
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flamingo
 
So do Islamic people believe in Hell?

Considering the number of verses in the Qur'an that mention how the unbelievers -- including Christians and Jews -- will burn in Hell for all eternity, I think the answer is an unqualified "yes".

Ref: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/int/long.html
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Flamingo
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严加华
Nov 3 2006, 07:01 PM
flamingo
 
So do Islamic people believe in Hell?

Considering the number of verses in the Qur'an that mention how the unbelievers -- including Christians and Jews -- will burn in Hell for all eternity, I think the answer is an unqualified "yes".

Ref: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/int/long.html

Well, that answers one of my questions. Being a christian, I really hope i don't burn in Hell. Me and fire just don't mix.
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piercehawkeye45
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flamingo
Nov 3 2006, 07:25 PM
严加华
Nov 3 2006, 07:01 PM
flamingo
 
So do Islamic people believe in Hell?

Considering the number of verses in the Qur'an that mention how the unbelievers -- including Christians and Jews -- will burn in Hell for all eternity, I think the answer is an unqualified "yes".

Ref: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/int/long.html

Well, that answers one of my questions. Being a christian, I really hope i don't burn in Hell. Me and fire just don't mix.

If there is a just god then there is no possible way there is a hell. Everyone gets put in different situations that cause them to believe different things. We always hear about the disbeliever that "got a sign" from god and they are now a devout *insert religion*, well what about the people who never got that sign? Are they doomed to hell because god choose not to give them a sign?

Another example:
Lets say there is an son of a single mother living in the inner city. He grew up unloved because his mom has to work constantly to bring food every night. To get his sense of belonging he joins a gang. This gang are atheists and he, of course, becomes one too. For the next two years he vandalizes, steals, rapes, and then gets involved in a murder. Now, this person that was murdered had powerful friends which promised to get revenge. One day his gang gets attacked and he dies. Do you think that he should go to hell?

Now lets say instead of dying he is the only one to survive and a Christian helps him recover. This Christian has a big effect on him and he decideds to change his course and live a life of good. He becomes a big anti-gang activist and helps children to stay away from the life he once lived. He then eventually dies of old age. Do you think he should go to hell?
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
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I have found the enemy and he is us.
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Blackrider5
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Flamingo: Generally we celebrate Eid holidays, the last one happened a couple of weeks ago and the next one is happening at around christmas, we have two Eids each year. The one that just passed happens the day after Ramadan, the month of fasting and when the first verse of the Qu'ran came down to our Prophet ( saw). Sadly I can't remember the signifance of the upcoming one, I might get back to you on that. At a certain time of year one can make a pilgrimage to Mecca, called Hajj ( any other time of the year is called Umra). We also sort of have our own Halloween right in the middle of Ramadan, Garangau, where you don't necessarily have to dress up, but you have ( until the kids recently became lazy-asses, that is) to sing for your candy ( and a bunch of nuts thrown in too). Yes, we believe in Hell, and in 8 levels if I'm not mistaken, lowest for the worst sinners, highest for the not as bad baddies.

Dude with the Japanese name ( how do you pronounce it?): The translations there are a load of crap, I randomly chose 10 and found them to be pretty damned innacurate, especially concerning the ones about Christians and Jews. Here is a good page to find translations. Kay? No prob man, not your fault, just try to be a little more careful. B)


CHRISTIANS AND JEWS CAN GO TO HEAVEN JUST AS EASILY AS WE CAN!
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Blackrider5
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If you're asking if he's going to Hell or not for being Christian, don't ask. Good Christians and good Jews can go to Heaven just like good Muslims can, ignore the other guy's link, it's damned innacurate. About sins commited in childhood? Not counted. Coversion? As long as you have time to attain forgiveness from Allah, you're golden.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post mods! Didn't mean it!
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严加华
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Blackrider5
Nov 4 2006, 03:02 PM
Dude with the Japanese name ( how do you pronounce it?):


Chinese. I pronounce my name "Michael", though.

Quote:
 
The translations there are a load of crap,


The translations there are the Mohammed Marmaduke Picktall translations. When I went to the Ottawa Mosque to look into Islam myself a few years back there were three translations that the mosque's bookstore had for sale (and I bought all three, knowing what I know about language and translation): Picktall, Abdullah Yusuf Ali and a third one whose translator I can no longer recall (Hassan, maybe?). I'm guessing that if a mosque is selling the Picktall translation, it is considered at least quasi-authoritative by the people in that mosque.

Quote:
 
I randomly chose 10 and found them to be pretty damned innacurate, especially concerning the ones about Christians and Jews. Here is a good page to find translations. Kay? No prob man, not your fault, just try to be a little more careful. B)


Let's do a comparison:

"crap" translation from the link I provided
 
2:96 And thou wilt find them [Jews] greediest of mankind for life and (greedier) than the idolaters. (Each) one of them would like to be allowed to live a thousand years. And to live (a thousand years) would be no means remove him from the doom. Allah is Seer of what they do.

"proper" translation from the link you provided
 
2:96 And thou wilt find them [Jews] greediest of mankind for life and (greedier) than the idolaters. (Each) one of them would like to be allowed to live a thousand years. And to live (a thousand years) would by no means remove him from the doom. Allah is Seer of what they do.


Oops. It looks to me like the wording is identical. Because they're both the same translation! Of course Islamicity has two other translations available, so let's go check them out.

Abdullah Yusuf Ali
 
2:96 Thou wilt indeed find them [Jews], of all people, most greedy of life,-even more than the idolaters: Each one of them wishes He could be given a life of a thousand years: But the grant of such life will not save him from (due) punishment. For Allah sees well all that they do.

"M Asad" (I'm not sure who this is.)
 
2:96 And thou wilt most certainly find that they [Jews] cling to life more eagerly than any other people, even more than those who are bent on ascribing divinity to other beings beside God: every one of them would love to live a thousand years, although the grant of long life could not save him from suffering [in the hereafter]: for God sees all that they do.


I'm not seeing a whole lot of difference in the various translations. All three of them are saying that Jews (the context is clear from the verses prior to this) are worse than idol-worshippers and will suffer as a result. Further, the link in Islamicity under that verse says: "Topics discussed in this Verse: [Jews:greedy of life]"

So, that's the Jews taken care of.

Now let's look at one of the verses about Christians (and Jews, in this case).
skeptics
 
5:51 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

islamicity I
 
5:51 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

islamicity II
 
5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

islamicity III
 
5:51 O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide such evildoers.



Again I see no substantial difference in translations to the point that the first quotation from islamicity is identical to the one from the skeptics page. And again, underneath, there is a very disturbing link: "Topics discussed in this Verse: (...) [People of the Book:do not take them for friends and protectors]".

I'm not seeing a lot of that tolerance I keep hearing about....

Quote:
 
CHRISTIANS AND JEWS CAN GO TO HEAVEN JUST AS EASILY AS WE CAN!

Even if this is true, where do atheists go? Or Buddhists? Hindus? Taoists? Jainists? Shintoists? Mormons? Satanists? -- you know, the majority of the planet that isn't Jewish (~25 million) Christian (~1.5 billion) or Muslim (~1 billion)?
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Blackrider5
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Michael, I erred as I had not paid full attention to all the verses you provided, I randomly chose a few that I found innacurate, and presumed therest followed suit. My most profound apologies. However, it seems there's a bit of a mis-understanding, the Qu'ran is talking about Christian and Jewish people who are unbelievers at heart, or choose to dis-respect us and stuff like that. In other words, those who claim to be Jewish and Christian ( and other followers of scripture), but do things to the contrary.

It's not for me to decide what happens to them.
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严加华
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That is one of the common interpretations, yes. Indeed my favourite edition of the Qur'an -- I happen to like A. Y. Ali's best (Picktall commits the unpardonable sin of making his translation intensely dull) -- has explicit commentary to this effect in footnotes. The problem is that not all Muslims subscribe to this interpretation. When I bought my copy of Ali, for example, I was told that the translation was "pretty good" but that I should ignore the commentary because it was "too liberal". :blink:

Wait'll you see what dirt I have on the Bible.... ;)
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Blackrider5
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I know all about it.

So we've established that the Qu'ran is talking about the bad Christians and Jews, not C's and J's in general, yes? Of course I forgot to metion that the Jews in days of old were a people that were constantly shown miracles by God, but never truly believed, so in regards to Jews it's the ones who refused to believe in the days of yore, not the Jews that practice Judaism that we know and love ( or hate :P ), at least that's in terms of Jewish history mentioned in the Qu'ran. When saying 'treat the Jews this way' it's in regards to the Jews ( and Christians) that don't really believe.
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