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Saddam; Dead Man
Topic Started: Nov 5 2006, 01:02 PM (2,221 Views)
Comrade Jim
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The Apocalypse Itself
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God, mass murder is wrong on every reasonable moral scale, anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid, insane or evil.
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NeoAegis
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Israel thug life
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Sure, I believe mass murder is wrong. However, does that mean that I should expect everyone else to regard it as such? Or what is it that we can label as "mass murdering"? One can just as simply call it "cleaning the gene pool" as it were.
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piercehawkeye45
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Franklin Pierce
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kashik
Nov 6 2006, 03:37 PM
again, what is gained from killing a murderer?

A feeling of flawed justice.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
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Dizzarth Stumpy
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kashik
Nov 6 2006, 01:37 PM
again, what is gained from killing a murderer?

peace of mind

Quote:
 
God, mass murder is wrong on every reasonable moral scale, anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid, insane or evil.

wrongness, morality, insanity, stupidity and evilness are ALL subjective and cultural terms... despite what you think, mass murder being "bad" ISN'T a universal belief..
STUMPY WAS RIGHT. HIS TOUCHING SOLILOQUY HAS MOVED ME, TRULY A MANIPULATOR OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. I HAVE ALLOWED HIM USAGE OF HIS PREVIOUS ACCOUNT.
EHRHRHRHRNGGHH
LC is the best and brought back my embarassing sex tapes.
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kashik
Crazy Doctor's Apprentice
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You would gain peace of mind for having someone executed? I think it's for revenge that people support the death penalty. Peace of mind is not gained by killing. It should be obvious, but peace and death do not belong together.
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Dizzarth Stumpy
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kashik
Nov 6 2006, 02:36 PM
You would gain peace of mind for having someone executed? I think it's for revenge that people support the death penalty. Peace of mind is not gained by killing. It should be obvious, but peace and death do not belong together.

just for the record, i don't actually support the death penalty.. but peace of mind is what others think they will get by having those that wrong them punished as severely as possible...
STUMPY WAS RIGHT. HIS TOUCHING SOLILOQUY HAS MOVED ME, TRULY A MANIPULATOR OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. I HAVE ALLOWED HIM USAGE OF HIS PREVIOUS ACCOUNT.
EHRHRHRHRNGGHH
LC is the best and brought back my embarassing sex tapes.
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Flamingo
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Penis goes in here
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kashik
Nov 6 2006, 03:37 PM

again, what is gained from killing a murderer?

Another hole in the ground.
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Necronomicon
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omar comin' yo
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flamingo
Nov 6 2006, 02:56 PM
Shmataleh
Nov 6 2006, 12:09 PM
Okay, so he was a butcher.  So does that concern us?

Obviously it does since we went in there and stayed in there for the last three years. America doesn't look kindly upon dictators and butchers.

Excepting all the dictators and butchers either completely ignored (ie pretty much all of them in Africa) or those ones equipped and set up by the American government.
omar yo. omar comin
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Dizzarth Stumpy
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piercehawkeye45
Nov 6 2006, 01:19 PM
Darth Stumpy
Nov 6 2006, 03:12 PM
piercehawkeye45
Nov 6 2006, 01:10 PM
Comrade Jim
Nov 6 2006, 03:04 PM
Well I think all cultures can be agreed that mass murder is wrong.

Ethics and morals are illusions to make us feel good about ourselves when we follow them.

morals don't exist to make us "feel good" they exist to help society function properly...

They have both functions, we aren't going to help someone out if it didn't satisfy us in some way.

hey, i'm a big believer that the core drive behind every human being's action is pure hedonism, but saying that morals are around to make us feel good is a gross oversimplification... in fact, i'd say it's just flat out wrong... nobody feels good about themselves for conforming to social mores, nobody says "hey, i didn't kill anyone today, aren't i a great person?" nobody says "hey, i bought that instead of stealing it, i'm really fantastic"... however, people DO feel BAD when they go AGAINST social mores... do it enough and you become an outcast, do it even more and you become a sociopath, break the most severe moral and ethical rules of your culture and you become a psychopath...

this is all because tied in with our survival instinct is our desire to be part of society, which dates back to the caveman days, when it was the only reason humans, as a weaker species, was able to survive...

as for the good feeling people get when they help someone out, it doesn't happen because of the good deed itself, it happens because others will think more highly of you, thus strengthening your place in society..
STUMPY WAS RIGHT. HIS TOUCHING SOLILOQUY HAS MOVED ME, TRULY A MANIPULATOR OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. I HAVE ALLOWED HIM USAGE OF HIS PREVIOUS ACCOUNT.
EHRHRHRHRNGGHH
LC is the best and brought back my embarassing sex tapes.
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Dr. Jim
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Nihil estis, Omnes sum
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It's amazing and creepy how the things people say that he has done get's worse and worse as time goes on. That number of people he killed has doubled almost every month.

Regardless of his killing people, and however many he did, that's not for us to enforce. If he was so bad, his army or citizens would have overthrown him, that's what happens to dictators.
He is really the only dictator we have really interfered with, unless you could Hitler, and that's just because he was only a threat. So to say the Us doesn't like dictators or bad rulers is wrong, as he is the first of either we've stopped.
...Matt was no exception to this. When he stood in the street and noticed his chest started to really hurt again, he made the decision to look down. He screamed like a grown man would scream when that grown man sees a laser burning his chest, and that is like a little girl...
-From Super Naked Moose Man
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piercehawkeye45
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Franklin Pierce
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Then why do people send anonoymus donations?

I competely agree with you but I still think there is more too it. I think it is very tough for someone to have a true set of morals and ethics, which are unique and carried out by the individual. To reach this level of maturity you need to have confidence and the ability to accept yourself. To be able to accept yourself, you have to be content on what you are and what you stand for.

To go on what you said, if you do a good deed to strengthen your status, that is still doing it for selfish reasons. We feel good about ourselves when we fit in and have power, if we didn't, we would have no intention to search for wealth and power.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
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Dizzarth Stumpy
Pessimist
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piercehawkeye45
Nov 6 2006, 04:55 PM
Then why do people send anonoymus donations?

I competely agree with you but I still think there is more too it. I think it is very tough for someone to have a true set of morals and ethics, which are unique and carried out by the individual. To reach this level of maturity you need to have confidence and the ability to accept yourself. To be able to accept yourself, you have to be content on what you are and what you stand for.

but this concept of "accepting yourself" is a skewed one... in reality it's not YOU being comfortable with who you are and what you stand for, you're simply looking at yourself through your societies eyes and if YOU like what you see then naturally society would as well... if these two viewpoints are different enough then you're a sociopath, and if you DON'T like what you see then you have a some sort of mental compulsion, like pedophiles who hate themselves...

when you see someone varying from the norm, to a large enough extent, your natural reaction is to ostracize them... you apply the same scrutiny to yourself, so if you see YOURSELF doing something "bad" and no one else does you'll still feel guilty, or if you do something "good" you'll still feel good, because you are as much of a representation of society as anyone else...

the concept of morals is so deeply branded into our mind that social deviation is completely unacceptable, no matter WHO it is, even ourselves... the morals themselves may change, and they vary from person to person based on upbringing and experience, but the belief that some rules are just plain unbreakable persists through everything... except among nihilists, but they don't count...

Quote:
 
To go on what you said, if you do a good deed to strengthen your status, that is still doing it for selfish reasons. We feel good about ourselves when we fit in and have power, if we didn't, we would have no intention to search for wealth and power.

aye, agreed... "good deeds" don't actually exist, our entire lives are mathematical a balancing act attempting to maximize the good and minimize the bad... donations, for example, we give the maximum amount of money so that the difference between the bad we feel for losing money and the good we feel for helping others is at the highest it can be... of course, we're not exactly good at this balancing act, so it doesn't always work out the way we hope...
STUMPY WAS RIGHT. HIS TOUCHING SOLILOQUY HAS MOVED ME, TRULY A MANIPULATOR OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. I HAVE ALLOWED HIM USAGE OF HIS PREVIOUS ACCOUNT.
EHRHRHRHRNGGHH
LC is the best and brought back my embarassing sex tapes.
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piercehawkeye45
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Franklin Pierce
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Yes, but if that is true then why to people try to change norms and go beyond what is acceptable? If we just tried to fit in with society we would have no change because people would try so hard to fit in, they wouldn't worry about accomplishing something greater. Especially in society today, it is looked down upon to try hard if you don't immediately get results, yet people get pride from working hard and failing. For example, I worked my ass off for three years for football and I guarantee no one besides the people that I worked out with noticed any difference with me. I had no reason for society to accept me but I still felt better about myself for working hard and still not accomplishing what I originally was shooting for.

Yes, we work in to fit in with culture and look through outsiders eyes, but we work to impress different cultures. One time we may work to fit in with the whole culture, then another time we may work to fit in with a specific subculture, and then we may work to fit in with a culture that consists only of ourselves. I agree that we always work to fit in with a culture, but the culture itself varies from time to time.

Going to my example, I was trying to fit in with my football team subculture and my own culture, not the overall high school or US culture.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
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Dizzarth Stumpy
Pessimist
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well, minor changes in social norms are a different thing, really... we're constantly pushing the boundaries of overall society to see what we can get away with, but we RARELY go against what our personal subculture wants... it basically boils down to the desire to belong to a group, ANY group... as long as we're accepted by our peers it generally doesn't matter to us what others think... high school is a prime example of this, because there are so many different subcultures, or cliques, and as long as you belong to one you can generally get by just fine, even if the rest of the school considers you an outcast...
STUMPY WAS RIGHT. HIS TOUCHING SOLILOQUY HAS MOVED ME, TRULY A MANIPULATOR OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. I HAVE ALLOWED HIM USAGE OF HIS PREVIOUS ACCOUNT.
EHRHRHRHRNGGHH
LC is the best and brought back my embarassing sex tapes.
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piercehawkeye45
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Franklin Pierce
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Yes, I always found it funny why every group listened to the same type of music, liked the same activities, and dressed the same but there are some curious exceptions. For example, I knew someone who was considered in the stoner subculture in high school. Yet, this person was straight-edged, dressed differently, listened to different music, and was completely independant to the point where it was hard to take the fact that he hung out with this group. It takes a certain level of maturity that is very rare to find to be able to make your own choices and not those of your personal subculture and still get their respect and keep yours.

I think there are two main group of people that violate norms. One is someone who thinks they have enough power to get away with the breaking of the norm (a popular kid wearing pink and everyone thinks it is cool) and somone who is confident enough with themselves that they don't really care (a very studious stoner). They are both very similiar and can produce the same outcome but one is for attention and acceptance and one is just doing what they want to do.

I agree that is exceptionally rare to find someone who violates the norms of their personal subgroup but people, usually very mature people, have accomplished it.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
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