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| Immortality; Immortality | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 26 2006, 02:54 AM (1,171 Views) | |
| pie is delicious | Nov 26 2006, 02:54 AM Post #1 |
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Earth Ending Impacter
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Just for some disscussion. If we exist because of our thought proccesses (I think therefor I am) then don't we continue to exist as long as our way of thinking does? When we read Of Mice and Men does Steinbeck flicker into existance through us as we see the image of California during the Great Depresion through his eyes, as the concept first imagined by him is revisited is there any division between our conciousness and that of the great writer? Society has evolved over thousands of years through the cumulative ideas of countless minds so can we really be said to be our own person or are we simply the sum of generations of great thinkers? If this is so when we die do we really die, or live on through our mannerisms and disscusions with our friends and families? We can't be said to be entirely the same person we were yesterday so we being constantly recomposed of parts of other people, a father lives on through his son and an author lives on through his fans. |
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| Tom Joad | Nov 26 2006, 03:50 AM Post #2 |
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Gap tooth so my dick's got to fit.
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I agree with part of what you say about us all living on as a uniform conscience, but I don't buy the part about individuals never dying. I can read Shakespeare, but it doesn't mean I am thinking the same thing as he thought when he wrote it. This a reason why I want to build a big monument to myself someday. A pyramid would do the job well. |
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| pie is delicious | Nov 26 2006, 04:14 AM Post #3 |
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Earth Ending Impacter
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| piercehawkeye45 | Nov 26 2006, 08:41 PM Post #4 |
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Franklin Pierce
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No, we do not share a single conscience. Yes, we are heavily molded by sociological forces but we are not limited to them. A more accurate analogy would be that our base is the sum of a thousand great thinkers but we are able to build off that to make ourselves even greater. People's personality is always built off someones else's idea and then molded to fit themself. |
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Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed I'm America! I have found the enemy and he is us. | |
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| Dr. Jim | Nov 27 2006, 02:45 PM Post #5 |
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Nihil estis, Omnes sum
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Close. The phrase "I think, therefor I am" (Cogito ergo sum) doesn't mean that thinking makes us exist. This is a common misconception. The phrase is meant to mean: "I think. Because I think, I must therefor exist, because if I didn't exist I wouldn't think." Thinking is used as that which proves existance because, as discussed earlier in his essay, Descante shows that nothing else can be shown to be true other than that he thinks. While our name can achieve immortality, through statues or books, we ourselves are dead as soon as we die. |
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...Matt was no exception to this. When he stood in the street and noticed his chest started to really hurt again, he made the decision to look down. He screamed like a grown man would scream when that grown man sees a laser burning his chest, and that is like a little girl... -From Super Naked Moose Man | |
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| pie is delicious | Nov 28 2006, 01:11 AM Post #6 |
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Earth Ending Impacter
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You say thinking doesn't make us exist, this isn't true. If we didn't think how could we be aware of the fact that we are conscious? Even if consciousness isn't dependant on thought what is original about our individual consciousness if not our thoughs. If you take two computers and program one to think (assuming we have a computer that is conscious) the same thing as the other then what is the difference between the two? We can only experience one consciousness at a time but what is to say that I won't be hit by a car tomorrow and wake up as a baby version of you? Can we be said to be the same person we were yesterday, a month ago, or a year ago? No. As time progresses we constantly recieve new experiences through books, telivision, school, and conversations with others. Say you read a book about someone on an airplane which is hijacked and the main charactor is a passenger who recaptures the plane. As you read the book synapses and dentrites are rearanging in your brain incorporating this new experience into your vast storehouse or knowledge. As you read the book he/she is programing your brain with instructions on what to do in the event that this should happen. If that event does happen you recall that programing and have a choice to do what the author would have you do or not, based on the other items in your storhouse of information and your instincts. If you chose to follow the instructions given to you through the authors book it isn't really you acting anymore it is the author. The same can go for thought, especialy if the person is impressionable (with the person reading a comentary and choosing to think in that manner if the situation occurs). P.S. What does "Omnes sum, nihil estis" mean, I've tried looking it up on line but with no luck. |
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| Necronomicon | Nov 28 2006, 06:56 PM Post #7 |
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omar comin' yo
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A rock doesn't think itself into existing. Yet it exists. |
| omar yo. omar comin | |
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| Dr. Jim | Nov 28 2006, 07:49 PM Post #8 |
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Nihil estis, Omnes sum
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The act of thinking is a result of existing. If you think, then, you must also exist. It's not thinking that makes you exist, but thinking lets you know that you exist. Omnes Sum Nihil Estis is a quote in Latin by Duroc. It translates to "I am everything, you all are nothing." Or literally to "all things I am nothing ya'll are" |
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...Matt was no exception to this. When he stood in the street and noticed his chest started to really hurt again, he made the decision to look down. He screamed like a grown man would scream when that grown man sees a laser burning his chest, and that is like a little girl... -From Super Naked Moose Man | |
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| pie is delicious | Dec 2 2006, 02:47 AM Post #9 |
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Earth Ending Impacter
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I am not talking about physical existance but rather mental existance. A rock exists physicaly but doesn't think and so doesn't have a consciousness. We only exist mentaly because we think we do. |
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| Necronomicon | Dec 2 2006, 05:19 PM Post #10 |
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omar comin' yo
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Are you saying self-awareness causes the existence of your consciousness? I would say self-awareness is a product of the existence of your consciousness. |
| omar yo. omar comin | |
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| Mister Sinister | Dec 15 2006, 02:47 PM Post #11 |
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Delusional Granduerist
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I would say your existence, is based solely on your self-awareness, which causes your conciousness. I think therefore I am. I think I am. Am I thinking? |
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| kloph | Jan 5 2007, 02:30 PM Post #12 |
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Struggling Scientist
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our reality is created by perception. I cannot be sure that anything exists outside of what I can sense. I am the only thing that I can be sure is real, but just because I percieve something doesn't mean it is real. |
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| Zer0 | Jan 5 2007, 07:46 PM Post #13 |
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LOEV 2 KONSOLE
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Just become solipsist and forget this convoluted thinking. |
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| That guy on the forum | Jan 13 2007, 10:26 PM Post #14 |
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Planning World Domination
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I agree with you, our thoughts are built up of other peoples thoughts. But the thing that bothers me is, those people's thoughts are built up of other people's thought, which are built up of other people's thoughts, ect. However, I think are thoughts are allso built up of our genes, so part of us allways stays the same. This is the part that is not "immortal". Think of your mind as a puzzle, with peices shared from other people that may get taken out and replaced with another peice, but the table that your puzzle is one will allways stay the same. I do not think that we will stay alive through these thoughts we share, but we will stay remembered. |
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| pie is delicious | Jan 14 2007, 08:17 PM Post #15 |
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Earth Ending Impacter
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I agree with the fact that brain geography, chemical makeup, ect. has a lot to do withe the thaouthe processes but not with the statement you made about this part not being immortal, so to say. The genes that determine the brain structure is passed down from generation to generation, they are combined with other genes, and improved upon by natural selection but they remain in the gene pool. You are bothered by the concept that thoughts are largly built upon other peoples thoughts going back to time immemorable but keep in mind that that this was a slow process like natural selection begining with one caveman developing a tool that gave him an advantage and sparked the idea in other cavemen to look for ways to develope tools of their own. Over time similar cultural revolutions have built upon the base of that first instance leading to today where we spend years in school going over it all. The cavemen who couldn't develop tools were at a disadvantage and so died out leaving the thought processes that gave the tool makers an advantage programed into our genes which may also help your understanding. As I have said before, when two things are close enough alike there is no way to tell the difference between the two, as such though no dead person is consciously alive they are not really dead mentaly. |
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8:14 AM Jul 11