Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Exit Mundi Forums. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Personallity; Are we really alive?
Topic Started: Jan 13 2007, 09:31 PM (1,443 Views)
NeoAegis
Member Avatar
Israel thug life
Admin
piercehawkeye45
Jan 13 2007, 11:00 PM
I intend on using these traits to their fullest.

"It's not like you had a choice anyways."
Posted Image Posted Image
Posted Image
Exit Mundi Post of the Year
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
piercehawkeye45
Member Avatar
Franklin Pierce
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
NeoAegis
Jan 13 2007, 11:23 PM
piercehawkeye45
Jan 13 2007, 11:00 PM
I intend on using these traits to their fullest.

"It's not like you had a choice anyways."

.....exactly.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
严加华
Member Avatar
Magister Ludicrous
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
piercehawkeye45
Jan 14 2007, 12:00 PM
[][][], the difference is control. Humans like to have control over their lives and the lives of others.

I would like to have a Ferrari Testosterosa (sic). It ain't gonna happen. This does not crush me.

You would like to have control over your life and the lives of others. It ain't gonna happen. This should not crush you.

It is running away from truth that breeds unhappiness and causes people to go psycho to the point that they, say, to name a concept at random, cheerfully slaughter anybody a fantasy figure tells them to. Accepting the truth is liberating and calming.

Of course it isn't as if you have any choice in your response.... ;)
LC Sez: Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
piercehawkeye45
Member Avatar
Franklin Pierce
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Ñϼӻª
Jan 14 2007, 01:46 AM
Of course it isn't as if you have any choice in your response....  ;)

I find humor in that as well. :D


Though I can argue that humans tend to get depressed when the realize that they have lost control over their lives, or have an external locus of control

Now I think I may have come off differently than I wanted to about the depressed thing. I have no problem accepting the fact that I have no control over my life just as I have no problem accepting that I will die one day. Neither of those two ideas are healthy to stress over though. So I choose, or have been forced to choose, to avoid thinking about them when making decisions, or having decisions made for me. I don't get depressed over it, it is just a depresssing topic.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
严加华
Member Avatar
Magister Ludicrous
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
piercehawkeye45
Jan 14 2007, 03:02 PM
Now I think I may have come off differently than I wanted to about the depressed thing. I have no problem accepting the fact that I have no control over my life just as I have no problem accepting that I will die one day. Neither of those two ideas are healthy to stress over though. So I choose, or have been forced to choose, to avoid thinking about them when making decisions, or having decisions made for me. I don't get depressed over it, it is just a depresssing topic.

And you have now survived your own personal existential crisis. Bravo! (No sarcasm intended here.)

You've nailed it on the head: obsessing -- either way -- over "free will" is unhealthy. (Not that you'd have a choice either way.)

Your analogy with knowing you're going to die someday is perfect. Some people do crazy things when the inevitability of death rears its ugly head. They revert to childhood. They make up fantasy figures who will keep them alive forever (and keep the people they don't like alive forever in tormet). They follow ever "life-extending" fad that crosses their path. They become Buddhist monks. Whatever.

And in the end they die. Forever. What a sad waste of life.

Knowing you have no free will gives you similar choices. You can react badly and do weird things (that fantasy figure again) to make yourself feel special to the universe or you can recognise that this is just the way things are and proceed with your life. And, of course, since you don't even have free will you don't have a choice. You will react one way or another based upon a combination of external and internal factors including stochastics and causal chains.
LC Sez: Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
That guy on the forum
Member Avatar
Planning World Domination
[ *  *  *  * ]
I agree with pretty much all of 严加华's post. I don't think we really have free will, saying we have free will is like saying if you throw a ball up it wont come down, even though all the laws of physics say that it will. I don't even belive in "random", if something really unexplained happened it is not random, it happened for a reason, even if that reason is a butterfly flapping its wings in Tiwan. For example, when you roll dice or say "random" numbers, the numbers you get are there for a reason.

I do believe in the thought of free will though, if you see something you don't like you can change it, but you changing is allready "planded out".
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
NeoAegis
Member Avatar
Israel thug life
Admin
That guy on the forum
Jan 14 2007, 01:57 PM
I agree with pretty much all of Ñϼӻª's post. I don't think we really have free will, saying we have free will is like saying if you throw a ball up it wont come down, even though all the laws of physics say that it will.

It doesn't have to come down. Just throw it upwards at its escape velocity, and it won't be coming down.

Quote:
 
I don't even belive in "random", if something really unexplained happened it is not random, it happened for a reason, even if that reason is a butterfly flapping its wings in Tiwan. For example, when you roll dice or say "random" numbers, the numbers you get are there for a reason.

Two words: Quantum Mechanics.

Quote:
 
I do believe in the thought of free will though, if you see something you don't like you can change it, but you changing is allready "planded out".

That isn't free will.
Posted Image Posted Image
Posted Image
Exit Mundi Post of the Year
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
piercehawkeye45
Member Avatar
Franklin Pierce
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
NeoAegis
Jan 14 2007, 02:18 PM
Quote:
 
I don't even belive in "random", if something really unexplained happened it is not random, it happened for a reason, even if that reason is a butterfly flapping its wings in Tiwan. For example, when you roll dice or say "random" numbers, the numbers you get are there for a reason.

Two words: Quantum Mechanics.

I may be wrong but doesn't M-theory unify quantum mechanics with gravity? Also, just because we don't understand quatum mechanics to its fullest now doesn't mean we won't ever.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
That guy on the forum
Member Avatar
Planning World Domination
[ *  *  *  * ]
NeoAegis
Jan 14 2007, 07:18 PM


Quote:
 
I do believe in the thought of free will though, if you see something you don't like you can change it, but you changing is allready "planded out".

That isn't free will.

I know, but it is the idea of free will.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
NeoAegis
Member Avatar
Israel thug life
Admin
piercehawkeye45
Jan 14 2007, 02:45 PM
NeoAegis
Jan 14 2007, 02:18 PM
Quote:
 
I don't even belive in "random", if something really unexplained happened it is not random, it happened for a reason, even if that reason is a butterfly flapping its wings in Tiwan. For example, when you roll dice or say "random" numbers, the numbers you get are there for a reason.

Two words: Quantum Mechanics.

I may be wrong but doesn't M-theory unify quantum mechanics with gravity? Also, just because we don't understand quatum mechanics to its fullest now doesn't mean we won't ever.

Meh, it's been a while since I read up on this (dumb fucking school), but the uncertainty is built into the particles. Everything is a wave and a particle at the same time. Plus, you have the whole "particles pop in and out of existence randomly" thing.

Also, M-Theory just sounds nice. It's still far from being an accepted theory. But no, as far as I'm aware, no theory has successfully united gravity with the rest of the fundamental particles.
Posted Image Posted Image
Posted Image
Exit Mundi Post of the Year
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Necronomicon
Member Avatar
omar comin' yo
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
That guy on the forum
Jan 13 2007, 05:31 PM
If you think that you are nothing like your parents or the people you know, mabye that is because of your horoscope. My family has this book on birthdays, and it has everyday in it. All you do is look up your birthday, and the descriptions are so fitting it is mind bogoling. Does this mean who we are is just based of off our relatives, life style, and horoscope?

Astrology you can pretty much ignore when it comes to who you are.
omar yo. omar comin
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
严加华
Member Avatar
Magister Ludicrous
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
piercehawkeye45
Jan 15 2007, 03:45 AM
NeoAegis
Jan 14 2007, 02:18 PM
Quote:
 
I don't even belive in "random", if something really unexplained happened it is not random, it happened for a reason, even if that reason is a butterfly flapping its wings in Tiwan. For example, when you roll dice or say "random" numbers, the numbers you get are there for a reason.

Two words: Quantum Mechanics.

I may be wrong but doesn't M-theory unify quantum mechanics with gravity? Also, just because we don't understand quatum mechanics to its fullest now doesn't mean we won't ever.

QM and M-theory both contain heavy doses of randomness/causeless events.
LC Sez: Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
That guy on the forum
Member Avatar
Planning World Domination
[ *  *  *  * ]
NeoAegis
Jan 14 2007, 08:10 PM
piercehawkeye45
Jan 14 2007, 02:45 PM
NeoAegis
Jan 14 2007, 02:18 PM
Quote:
 
I don't even belive in "random", if something really unexplained happened it is not random, it happened for a reason, even if that reason is a butterfly flapping its wings in Tiwan. For example, when you roll dice or say "random" numbers, the numbers you get are there for a reason.

Two words: Quantum Mechanics.

I may be wrong but doesn't M-theory unify quantum mechanics with gravity? Also, just because we don't understand quatum mechanics to its fullest now doesn't mean we won't ever.

Meh, it's been a while since I read up on this (dumb fucking school), but the uncertainty is built into the particles. Everything is a wave and a particle at the same time. Plus, you have the whole "particles pop in and out of existence randomly" thing.


Are you talking about particles that pop in and out of reality? If so, I agree that is random, but other then that, most things are pretty much in a straight line.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
piercehawkeye45
Member Avatar
Franklin Pierce
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Ñϼӻª
Jan 14 2007, 07:49 PM
QM and M-theory both contain heavy doses of randomness/causeless events.

I know QM is all about randomness but I wasn't sure how close M-theory is to the "unifed theory" Einstein was looking for.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Katastrof
Member Avatar
One Of The Four Horseman
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
As the resident Compatibilist I can say my stance is both a supporter of free will and determinism. You see the choices we can make are all predetermined but the choice we make out of those choices is not. Events are predetermined, choices are not. I'm not going to go to much into thisbecause I don't have that much time (damn school exams), but I recall that I wrote a really long post on this.

Compatibilist = (Determinism + Free Will) Togather
Posted Image

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero"(Seize the day put no trust in tomorrow)
~ Horace
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Create your own social network with a free forum.
Learn More · Sign-up for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Philosophy and Ethics · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Theme Made by Sionthede of the IFSZ.