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Iraq video; Why we can't win
Topic Started: Jan 26 2007, 06:21 PM (797 Views)
piercehawkeye45
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Franklin Pierce
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evilgenius
Jan 26 2007, 05:31 PM
Iraq is like Vietnam, only tree's are replaced with sand.

No it isn't. Vietnam was the Vietnamese versus the Americans. Iraq is the Sunni versus the Shiite with America in the middle.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
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evilgenius
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You got me there.
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LC made it, and it is awesome.

You do notice how much money it costs to repair the damages of a zombie outbreak? no!
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Blackrider5
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Necronomicon
Jan 26 2007, 07:50 PM
Right right, you just said you laughed your ass off when it happened. My mistake.

No, you misunderstood my post. I meant I laughed my ass of when Mike said ' and people wonder why other people throw planes into us', because of the bluntness of the statement. I don't find 9/11 itself any funnier than I find this.
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LC made this..... And it PWNTZ!

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Harbinger made this.... And it rules!


Courtesy of your friendly neighbourhood Muslim!
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Flamingo
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I just saw the video and I have to say that was very brutal and depressing. American soldiers are supposed to be there to improve the situation, not make violence and injustice continue.
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严加华
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flamingo
Jan 27 2007, 12:11 PM
I just saw the video and I have to say that was very brutal and depressing. American soldiers are supposed to be there to improve the situation, not make violence and injustice continue.

To be fair to the soldiers in question, it really isn't 100% their fault. Indeed I'd go so far as to say it is at most 49% their fault.

You see soldiers, in regular military forces, are not policemen. They're trained to kill. To win in a stand-up, toe-to-toe conflict. They're not trained to deal with morally murky terrain where there's no clear way to differentiate between an enemy, a non-combatant and a friend. It is not a wonder that they're going crazy -- and the nature of the people attracted to the military tends to make their "crazy" mean "violent and psychotic" instead of "emo".

Your government bears the majority of the blame. They took troops who were not trained as counter-insurgency forces or peacekeepers and tossed them into situations that were far more complicated than they were ever trained to consider possible. Further they lied openly (Hell, proudly!) to these soldiers, underequipped them and then tied their hands. At no point did the people in power risk anything or anyone valuable to them in this war, so they don't actually give a shit for the soldiers in the streets of Baghdad (sp?).

Again, small wonder that the people there go psychotic.

Note: I am in no way condoning these actions. They knew what they were doing was wrong -- evidence: the sergeant telling the cameraman to cut filming! -- and they knew there'd be Hell to pay for what happened. And they did it anyway. But this doesn't change what led to them taking those actions.

So, yes. The fuckers should be tried and hung. But so, too, should their commanders, their commanders' commanders and so on up the chain to Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush.
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Katastrof
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???
 
-- and the nature of the people attracted to the military tends to make their "crazy" mean "violent and psychotic" instead of "emo".


I'm nethier emo, psychotic or violent and I'm attracted to the military. Then again I'm not going to join a grunt but rather go for officer training...

It's true soldiers are meant to kill and kill only, and having a military force police a state is bound to have some conflicts. But, soldiers are also trained to be disiplined in when to kill and when not to. Displine is the trademark of the army. These Americans in this video had no disipline, they were just cheering and laughing at what the Iraqis were doing. They certiantly don't represent the whole American army, since again this is the media we're talking about.

Also how would Ghandi know a South African slang word?
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Necronomicon
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Ghandi spent years in South Africa as an activist before he went to India.

Katastrof
 
It's true soldiers are meant to kill and kill only, and having a military force police a state is bound to have some conflicts. But, soldiers are also trained to be disiplined in when to kill and when not to. Displine is the trademark of the army. These Americans in this video had no disipline, they were just cheering and laughing at what the Iraqis were doing.


Seen that documentary, 'Gunner's Palace'? This is what happens in an all-volunteer army: you don't get the best people for the job, you get the people who didn't have any other options for the job.

My mistake, Blackrider5, sorry.
omar yo. omar comin
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严加华
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Katastrof
Jan 27 2007, 10:50 PM
???
 
-- and the nature of the people attracted to the military tends to make their "crazy" mean "violent and psychotic" instead of "emo".


I'm nethier emo, psychotic or violent and I'm attracted to the military.


Hence "tends" instead of "automatically makes".

Quote:
 

It's true soldiers are meant to kill and kill only, and having a military force police a state is bound to have some conflicts. But, soldiers are also trained to be disiplined in when to kill and when not to. Displine is the trademark of the army. These Americans in this video had no disipline, they were just cheering and laughing at what the Iraqis were doing. They certiantly don't represent the whole American army, since again this is the media we're talking about.


At no point did I say it did represent them. But your picture of the military as a bastion of discipline is naive. (I say this as the fourth generation of serving military in my family.) Troops are disciplined to a point. But when they're given training to kill and orders not to touch anything even though they're getting shot to ratshit from punks who won't go toe-to-toe (which is what they've trained for) discipline breaks down.

It breaks down further when politicians lie to them about why they're there, what they're doing and how things are going.

Discipline only goes so far. And then bad shit starts happening. And then more and more and more bad shit starts happening.

Quote:
 
Also how would Ghandi know a South African slang word?

Don't know much about Gandhi's life, do you? You may want to read up a bit more to find out why he'd know a South African racial epithet.
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Blackrider5
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S'alright, Necro. ;)
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LC made this..... And it PWNTZ!

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Harbinger made this.... And it rules!


Courtesy of your friendly neighbourhood Muslim!
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Killer Bee
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piercehawkeye45
Jan 26 2007, 10:32 PM
evilgenius
Jan 26 2007, 05:31 PM
Iraq is like Vietnam, only tree's are replaced with sand.

No it isn't. Vietnam was the Vietnamese versus the Americans. Iraq is the Sunni versus the Shiite with America in the middle.

With America being in the middle means now every Muslim faction hates us. It's not our war, but we make it our war.
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piercehawkeye45
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Killer Bee
Jan 29 2007, 01:06 PM
piercehawkeye45
Jan 26 2007, 10:32 PM
evilgenius
Jan 26 2007, 05:31 PM
Iraq is like Vietnam, only tree's are replaced with sand.

No it isn't. Vietnam was the Vietnamese versus the Americans. Iraq is the Sunni versus the Shiite with America in the middle.

With America being in the middle means now every Muslim faction hates us. It's not our war, but we make it our war.

Exactly. There isn't much we can do to stop it either.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
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Killer Bee
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piercehawkeye45
Jan 29 2007, 08:04 PM
Killer Bee
Jan 29 2007, 01:06 PM
piercehawkeye45
Jan 26 2007, 10:32 PM
evilgenius
Jan 26 2007, 05:31 PM
Iraq is like Vietnam, only tree's are replaced with sand.

No it isn't. Vietnam was the Vietnamese versus the Americans. Iraq is the Sunni versus the Shiite with America in the middle.

With America being in the middle means now every Muslim faction hates us. It's not our war, but we make it our war.

Exactly. There isn't much we can do to stop it either.

No, we've pretty much already made our presence there permenant. And if we just up and pulled out of Iraq right now, it would be twice as bad for all parties involved. Sad, real sad.
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Bigfoot
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I think that we need to train more in counter insurgency and not cut and run and hope that smurfing diplomicy will solve things. You can not talk to those who want to kill you.
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Brutus
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you can't stop this from happening, its going to go on for a looooooong time,

you can however, not sit in a humvee and laugh at them!
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sabertooth
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Bigfoot
Feb 15 2007, 09:36 PM
I think that we need to train more in counter insurgency and not cut and run and hope that smurfing diplomicy will solve things. You can not talk to those who want to kill you.

Thats the attitude that got planes shuved into your buildings and your soldiers in iraq.
Love and trust in one another,
never fear that we might fall.
Because God gave us friends,
not a mountain after all.

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