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Iraq video; Why we can't win
Topic Started: Jan 26 2007, 06:21 PM (795 Views)
Killer Bee
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sabertooth
Feb 17 2007, 06:42 PM
Bigfoot
Feb 15 2007, 09:36 PM
I think that we need to train more in counter insurgency and not cut and run and hope that smurfing diplomicy will solve things. You can not talk to those who want to kill you.

Thats the attitude that got planes shuved into your buildings and your soldiers in iraq.

No, a psychotic fanatic who had an evil political agenda got planes shoved into the Twin Towers. An idiot president got our soldiers in Iraq.
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严加华
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Magister Ludicrous
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Killer Bee
Feb 20 2007, 03:01 AM
sabertooth
Feb 17 2007, 06:42 PM
Bigfoot
Feb 15 2007, 09:36 PM
I think that we need to train more in counter insurgency and not cut and run and hope that smurfing diplomicy will solve things. You can not talk to those who want to kill you.

Thats the attitude that got planes shuved into your buildings and your soldiers in iraq.

No, a psychotic fanatic who had an evil political agenda got planes shoved into the Twin Towers. An idiot president got our soldiers in Iraq.

Psychotic fanatics tend not to get following unless there's something pissing off those followers.

The shit you're feeling now? Is partially -- perhaps even mostly -- your fault. (Not you personally -- you collectively.)
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Killer Bee
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Quote:
 
Psychotic fanatics tend not to get following unless there's something pissing off those followers.


I can agree with this to a point, the U.S. has definatley played a part in it's own demise in the Middle East. But, this isn't always the case. Adolf Hitler was also a psychotic fanatic, his goal was to purify the "white" race by exterminating the Jews and taking Europe. His followers were basically brainwashed into believing him because he was screaming hate filled speeches sugar coated with promises of a "new" Germany.

Quote:
 
The shit you're feeling now?  Is partially -- perhaps even mostly -- your fault.  (Not you personally -- you collectively.)


Well put. I think there is more of an agenda behind a lot of recent anti-U.S. propaganda, but we still give these people that hate us the noose to hang us with. Maybe the world doesn't need us to police their governments..........
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严加华
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Magister Ludicrous
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Killer Bee
Feb 20 2007, 10:40 PM
Quote:
 
Psychotic fanatics tend not to get following unless there's something pissing off those followers.


I can agree with this to a point, the U.S. has definatley played a part in it's own demise in the Middle East. But, this isn't always the case. Adolf Hitler was also a psychotic fanatic, his goal was to purify the "white" race by exterminating the Jews and taking Europe. His followers were basically brainwashed into believing him because he was screaming hate filled speeches sugar coated with promises of a "new" Germany.


You mean, in short, that the Germans who followed the psychotic fanatic had some gripes? And that you're stating basically what I said at the start?

Let me paint you a little picture of history here. After WWI, Germany was saddled with "reparations" bills for its "aggression". (The other aggressors in the war weren't saddled with them because they didn't have anything worth looting.)

Gripe #1: injustice.

Now the "reparations" were taken indirectly, not directly. The winning soldiers didn't follow the traditional thing of going into the country and looting whatever they wanted. They instead took it from the banks. The banks had to extract it from the people. The banks extracted the money essentially by mass foreclosure.

Gripe #2: people's property was being taken away from them by an impersonal process with no room for appeal. (Some people needed to read Machiavelli more....)

Due to history, most "moneylenders" (banks) were run by Jews. (For the longest of times only Jews were allowed to loan money for interest, you see.) As such the biggest public face of these unjust foreclosures was the Jew. Antisemitism already existed at an industrial scale all over Europe. Having Jews take away your home and your property was just... bad juju.

Gripe #3: "Those damned Jewish dogs stole my home!"

Into this mess came a psychotic fanatic puppet. (Hitler was a puppet for most of his career, not the leader.) He sucked as a painter, but was gifted as a demagogue. He hated Jews for an irrational reason, but the populace didn't mind at all. They hated Jews too for what was to them entirely rational reasons. Germans had lost all pride and all identity and were, in their own country and their own self-image, second-class citizens. This would be the "something" that's "pissing off" Hitler's followers.

The rest is, as they say, history.

I say again: psychotic fanatics tend not to get a following unless there's something pissing off said followers.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
The shit you're feeling now?  Is partially -- perhaps even mostly -- your fault.  (Not you personally -- you collectively.)


Well put. I think there is more of an agenda behind a lot of recent anti-U.S. propaganda, but we still give these people that hate us the noose to hang us with. Maybe the world doesn't need us to police their governments..........

Of course there's an agenda behind it! There's always an agenda behind empty rhetoric!

But said agenda can't happen without followers and said followers wouldn't exist if you didn't go around and, say, drop bombs on wedding parties (to name one random episode of pointless, stupid brutality among thousands).
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Killer Bee
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Ñϼӻª
Feb 21 2007, 02:25 AM
But said agenda can't happen without followers and said followers wouldn't exist if you didn't go around and, say, drop bombs on wedding parties (to name one random episode of pointless, stupid brutality among thousands).

Just for the record, I don't support dropping bombs on wedding parties or blowing up yourself and dozens of innocents on a bus for being "pissed". It's easy to join a trend that is focused on eliminating an "enemy" and using the excuse of being pissed and tired of oppression to justify bloodshed. Do the followers of these fanatics even know why they're supposed to be pissed?
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Mister Sinister
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Quote:
 
Into this mess came a psychotic fanatic puppet. (Hitler was a puppet for most of his career, not the leader.)


Puppet for whom?

IG Farben?
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严加华
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Magister Ludicrous
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Mister Sinister
Feb 22 2007, 12:51 AM
Quote:
 
Into this mess came a psychotic fanatic puppet. (Hitler was a puppet for most of his career, not the leader.)


Puppet for whom?

IG Farben?

Initially? Elements within the remnants of the German military. He rapidly slipped out of their control, however, and into the control of bankers and industrialists. They didn't like getting their money ripped away from them by aliens either, so they found a way to fight back.

Nazism was both "nationalist" and "socialist" in name only. It ketou-ed to industry more than to the workers it claimed to be benefiting.
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