Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Exit Mundi Forums. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Downloading; Is it ok?
Topic Started: Feb 23 2007, 09:18 AM (2,023 Views)
Debaser
Member Avatar
Planning World Domination
[ *  *  *  * ]
严加华
Mar 25 2007, 05:06 AM
Debaser
Mar 25 2007, 11:58 AM
First, you said it yourself. Downloading such music and programs is stealing ...


This is factually incorrect and spread by RIAA/MPAA/et al FUD. Downloading music, movies and programs is copyright infringement not theft. The two are distinct notions with distinctly different sets of law surrounding them and two entirely different sets of legal thought behind them. Don't let the advocates of so-called "intellectual property" confuse the issue any more than they already have. Use the proper term: "infringement".


Thank you for clearing that part up for me. I apologize for using the wrong terminology.

However, Windows XP for $1000? The highest price I found for XP was around $300 for Professional.
To hell with that.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
严加华
Member Avatar
Magister Ludicrous
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
You're not looking into the Enterprise-level offerings.

Windows XP Pro? Is for power users. I'm talking server-oriented stuff. Unfortunately I can't find any current pricing on that product -- it's either Windows 2003 or Vista stuff nowadays. I did find the Windows 2003 Enterprise Edition, however, for $999.97. That's close enough to $1000 for my tastes. Windows XP's server editions were in the same ballpark when they were current. And the price goes up when you have larger numbers of CPUs, etc. Same code, though. *EXACTLY* the same code. They're not even compiled with different switches. It's all turned on and off feature-by-feature in the registry.
LC Sez: Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Faust
Member Avatar
Crazy Doctor's Apprentice
[ *  * ]
Copyright Infringement is not theft but it still is a crime. Should it remain a crime - no...
And it will not remain so for long.

Quote:
 

Intellectual property rights: criminal sanctions to fight piracy and counterfeiting
Research and innovation - 20-03-2007 - 02:03
The first EU directive aiming at harmonising national criminal law was backed by the Legal Affairs' committee, when it adopted on Tuesday a first-reading report on a legislation imposing criminal sanctions for the infringement of intellectual property rights. The issue now goes before the April plenary session.

Nicola Zingaretti (PES, IT), Parliament's rapporteur, said: "We are turning a new page: this is the first directive where criminal law is included. […] To harmonise criminal codes will be a radical new thing".  If approved by Parliament and the Council, the proposed directive would oblige all Member States to consider as a criminal offence all intentional infringements of an intellectual property right carried out on a commercial scale. The text proposes, as a deterrent, measures ranging from fines to imprisonment, according to the gravity of the crime.

Members of the Legal Affairs' committee backed the overall aim of the Commission proposal, while amending some of its provisions. They excluded patent rights from the scope of the Directive, and decided that criminal sanctions should only apply to those infringements deliberately carried out to obtain a commercial advantage. Piracy committed by private users for personal, non-profit purposes are therefore also excluded.

The report aims to ensure that national judicial authorities will always be able to impose sufficiently serious penalties by setting out minimum levels for the upper limits on punishments imposed by national law. In cases of serious crimes committed by a criminal organisation, the maximum penalty must be at least €300 000 and/or four years' imprisonment. The same applies where the offences carry a health or safety risk. For less serious infringements, the maximum penalties should include criminal and civil fines of at least €100 000. In some cases, remedies can include the seizure and destruction of counterfeited goods.

A series of provisions on investigations was also approved. Member States are asked to ensure that the possibility of initiating investigations is not dependent on a formal accusation, at least when acts were committed in the territory of the Member State. Moreover, EU countries, if the directive is adopted, would have to allow holders of violated intellectual property rights to assist investigations undertaken by joint investigation teams.

The proposed directive reflects the Commission's interpretation of the European Court of Justice’s judgment of 13 September 2005. According to the Commission, this ruling allows for measures under the Community method to insist on criminal sanctions, when these are required for the effective implementation of Community law.  This view is contested by those who believe criminal law cannot be a competence of the Community - but amendments rejecting the entire proposal on this basis were defeated in the vote.


Procedure: codecision, first reading -- Vote in plenary: April, Strasbourg
I am the surcease of every pain
I am the end of the mortal scope
I am the trial of every soul
I am the tomb of every hope
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
严加华
Member Avatar
Magister Ludicrous
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Faust
Mar 25 2007, 06:41 PM
Copyright Infringement is not theft but it still is a crime.

No it is not. Or, rather, it is usually not a crime.

Usually it falls under tort law. Criminal infringement implies distribution for large-scale profit. There are very, very, very, very few successful prosecutions of criminal infringement. The overwhelming majority of infringement cases are handled under tort law.

Please stop spreading the shit that the RIAA/MPAA/et al want you to spread. They love it when people cloud issues on their behalf.

The US DOJ weighs in. Here they talk the hypotheticals of any exchange for profit being criminal, but they don't talk the tons and tons of case law which pretty much make criminal prosecutions extremely difficult.

Here's the actual law focusing on the relevant part.
LC Sez: Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
agafaba
Member Avatar
douchebagga
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I dont find anything wrong with me downloading Flash, or acrobat, or office even for one simple reason. I dont have the spare money to buy these products so i either get it for free or not at all, i am not making them lose any money at all. If i could not get it then i would download a crappy but free program that did the same thing. On the other side downloading music did encourage me to buy, after hearing some music downloaded i went out and bought the cd, or if i enjoy a game but want to play it online i need to buy a new one for a fresh cd-key.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Killer Bee
Member Avatar

Admin
Quote:
 
In the same way, by downloading that music, you have stolen property from the producers and creators of that song. And while it may seem insignificant by comparison with the hundreds of thousands of people buying the songs legally, what if everyone did it?


Why go out and spend 15 to 20 dollars on a new CD when there's only one song you may like? I don't feel the least bit sorry for the producers and creators of the song I'm downloading. Do you think CD sales is where they make their money? Actually tours and promotions is where the true cash is made, not in album sales. Most of the time, the album sales go back to the record company. And if anyone is paying to download music, it's their own fault, not mine.

Quote:
 
Secondly, its immoral.


Immoral? Morals only can be judged on the perspective of the individual. What you find moral or immoral, I might say bullshit to. You need a better arguement than morals.

Quote:
 
Thirdly, downloading a program people have worked hard on is even worse. Programs such as Flash, Acrobat and Fireworks are expensive for a reason.


And you're saying? It's all about what you're willing to pay. I don't have thousands of dollars to spend on a program, so what's the next best thing? You guessed it, piracy.

Quote:
 
They take a lot of time to code. A group of people may spend years working on a great program, only to have someone steal it and release before they were planning to, stopping their pay, and the awesomeness of knowing you did something big.


So, is buying a program for a large sum of money and then having to turn around and spend an even larger amount to buy more user liscense for multiple users any less "immoral"?

Quote:
 
but I know people who work on code for Macromedia, and nothing pisses them off more than piracy.


...and my heart bleeds for them.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rhas BloodBear
Member Avatar
I FUCKING SUCK AT EVERYTHING GOD DAMN
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Killer Bee
Feb 23 2007, 10:39 AM
I like your banner Dirk.

My limits. None. The music industry generates millions per year. So why should anyone care about stealing a few songs from Limewire?

I perfer "borrowing".
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DirkNL
Member Avatar
Horrific poster
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Rhas BloodBear
Mar 26 2007, 06:39 PM
Killer Bee
Feb 23 2007, 10:39 AM
I like your banner Dirk.

My limits.  None.  The music industry generates millions per year.  So why should anyone care about stealing a few songs from Limewire?

I perfer "borrowing".

I prefer 'taking'. Anyways, there's nothing wrong about downloading songs. All the profit from album sales goes straight to the record label (which earns BIG money), the only income an artist has are concerts and some other stuff (e.g. acting or singing/rapping in a commercial).

-Dirk
Posted Image
Posted ImageHail the wallflipping monochrome computer thingyPosted Image
98% of the internet population has a Myspace. If you're part of the 2% that isn't an emo bastard, copy and paste this into your sig.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
koala
Member Avatar
THE GREATEST POSTER OF ALL
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Killer Bee
Feb 23 2007, 01:29 PM
DirkNL
Feb 23 2007, 01:04 PM
Exiled_Blood
Feb 23 2007, 02:02 PM
I've seen interviews where some artists actually support  illegal downloading of their music. It makes their popularity increase if they're decent and then they make their money and concerts.

Weird Al for example, he actually made a song in which he dissed anti-download artists (it's called 'Don't Download This Song', and you could down it for free, dunno where).

-Dirk

Everyone here remember the Metallica Napster fiasco? First off, MeSellOutica needs to learn how to produce quality music again. Secondly, with the shit their producing they should consider it an honor that anyone would want to download their emo bullshit even if it's free.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Sooo true!
A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. You think when Jesus comes back he ever wants to see a fucking cross? It's like going up to Jackie Onassis wearing a rifle pendant.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rhas BloodBear
Member Avatar
I FUCKING SUCK AT EVERYTHING GOD DAMN
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
bear
Mar 27 2007, 04:05 AM
Killer Bee
Feb 23 2007, 01:29 PM
DirkNL
Feb 23 2007, 01:04 PM
Exiled_Blood
Feb 23 2007, 02:02 PM
I've seen interviews where some artists actually support  illegal downloading of their music. It makes their popularity increase if they're decent and then they make their money and concerts.

Weird Al for example, he actually made a song in which he dissed anti-download artists (it's called 'Don't Download This Song', and you could down it for free, dunno where).

-Dirk

Everyone here remember the Metallica Napster fiasco? First off, MeSellOutica needs to learn how to produce quality music again. Secondly, with the shit their producing they should consider it an honor that anyone would want to download their emo bullshit even if it's free.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Sooo true!

That is DAMN True, Bee.

Though, It'd make sense, though, because they
are probably making suck little money,
they'd have to sue anybody they can.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Khan
Member Avatar
HAVE YOU HEARD OF THIS SWEET WEBSITE CALLED FOUR CHAN DOT ORG?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Depends. IF I like the program and game, and the artist / devs / makers / whatever are decent people by my standards, I buy it.

In Extremo - Spielmannsfluch, I loved it, I bought it.
Orphaned Land - Mabool , I loved it, I bought it.
Blind Guardian - Nightfall in Middle Earth I loved it, I bought it.
Dungeon Keeper 1 and 2, both original. Evolution, I love this game. :lol:
Newly made Turkish games like Pusu, Kabus 22 , Koridor, all original.
I'm planning on getting a credit card, so that I'll buy Guild Wars and a registry cleaner.

I encourage pirating shitty bands and games and sellout bands to beat some sense in their head. I'll never buy Ufo Aftershock or Ufo Afterlight. they are an insult to XCOM. I'll never buy ANY Metallica or In Flames songs, but I listen to them anyway.
Wine in hand, in the other, Quran,
Both halal I do and haram,
In this incomplete world of a sham,
Neither Pagan I am, nor Musselman!


Omar Khayyam

Come, come, whoever you are,
Wanderer, idolater, worshipper of fire,
Come even though you have broken your vows a thousand times,
Come, and come yet again.
Ours is not a caravan of despair


Mevlana Jalaladdin Rumi
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Exiled_Blood
Member Avatar
Voted Most Likely to End the World
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I never go to a concert without downloading and listening to a few of the songs first to make my decision. That's where they get my money, I'm not paying for a cd.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Taslan
Member Avatar
Crazy Doctor's Apprentice
[ *  * ]
Solanum
Feb 23 2007, 10:19 PM
Limewire. In fact, i was unsatisfied with limewire basic, so i used Limwire's file downloading feature and downloaded Limewire Pro. Then the space time continuum folded up out of sheer irony.

That happened to me with Kaaza.
In any case, I don't use limewire anymore. To unreliable. Well, only for music.
Now I just use Pirate Bay.
Information is supposed to be free, there shouldn't be a cost for information.

Only true Demons would put a price tag on something like a MP3 player.
"Who was the most beautiful Seraph in Heaven?"
And I reply, "Seraph Michael?"
"No."
And I reply, "Seraph Samael?"
"No."
And I reply in finality; "Then surely, Seraph Seraphiel."
"No.
The most beautiful Angel in Heaven was,
Seraph Lucifer
And as He fell, His feathers departed
Thusly, were the Souls of man and woman
Tis the reason why He wishes so desperately for
His Lost Feathers... His Wings...
To fly
Back Home."
-God to Taslan
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Damien_Hell
Crazy Doctor's Apprentice
[ *  * ]
Bah I live in Canada last time I checked DLing music was still a grey area, and in my opinion theft is wrong but someone said if your dumb enough to let it happen you deserve it or something like that. I found a 1Gig ipod nano on the ground at a bus stop, know what I did? Picked it up and walked home. Some idiot put a quarter into a vending machine someone stuck tinfoil in so the quarter was stuck and he couldn't get it out, I walked up told him the vending machine was broke waited till he tied his shoe and took the quarter (not the worse crime but....) Ive been Dling music, movies a game here and there and Flash 8 professional demo and used a serial code I found by typing in Flash 8 professional serial key into a Google search :ph43r: :ph43r: . Now if Macromedia or adobe or whoever cared so much about the safety of there $800 programs they'd actually do something about these serial keys floating around. In closing if your break into a guys house when he's visiting his dying grandma in the hospital thats wrong but if he takes his life savings out of his house and go's in to grab his coffee leaving the money on his porch....more power to the thief.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
严加华
Member Avatar
Magister Ludicrous
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Damien_Hell
Apr 10 2007, 10:38 AM
Bah I live in Canada last time I checked DLing music was still a grey area, and in my opinion theft is wrong but someone said if your dumb enough to let it happen you deserve it or something like that.

Once again with feeling: downloading music is not theft!!!. Downloading music is copyright infringement which is a completely different area of law and has absolutely nothing to do with property law. The only people who want you to believe otherwise are the people who benefit from you conflating infringement and theft -- i.e. the RIAA, the MPAA and other scumsucking fuckers like that.
LC Sez: Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Fully Featured & Customizable Free Forums
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Philosophy and Ethics · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Theme Made by Sionthede of the IFSZ.