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so I want to hear all your opinions on this; Why are we here ?
Topic Started: Apr 17 2007, 02:34 AM (2,269 Views)
Grenelle
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BohemianG
Apr 18 2007, 05:34 PM
catherine
Apr 18 2007, 05:42 PM
Because it makes God appear to have ultimate power, therefore commanding repect, whilst also giving people an incentive to live well.

So basically God is out to mislead and manipulate us for a power trip?

Well, not God himself. He doesn't exist. God's "representatives" on earth do.


Originally, I believe God was a harmless creation of the minds of ancient man. But since then he's grown and been hijacked to exert power and control and to excuse acts of atrocity.

Oh...and generate a bit of money, too.

I'm being unfair, I suppose. There are "good" sides to God, in a way. He provides hope to some in times of need etc etc. Personally, I'd rather face reality than lull myself into a false sense of security.
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catherine
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Agreed.

I think it would be easy to follow Christianity (or any other religion) devotedly and completely. Most difficult decisions are already decided for you. There's the nice safetynet to fall back on when life treats you unfairly. "It doesn't matter what happens now, because in the afterlife I'll get what I deserve and so will everyone who treated me wrongly."

But looking at things objectively, most religions don't make much sense. So the only real reason to keep following them is the safetynet.
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koala
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Maybe being an atheist is a pessimistic point of view. Believing that you just rot in the ground could be a form of pessimism, where as believing that there is such a great phenomonea out there that simple humans will never be able to understand brings a form of excitement, at least to me, which is very optimistic. Of course as you get older death doesn't seem that bad. It all happens natural. Even if you get shot up, your body takes care of you. You go into shock and pass away. If your about to get into a head-on collision, your mind blacks-out seconds before impact.

I don't know what my point was I was just throwing stuff out there.
A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. You think when Jesus comes back he ever wants to see a fucking cross? It's like going up to Jackie Onassis wearing a rifle pendant.
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BohemianG
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Grenelle
Apr 19 2007, 03:58 PM
BohemianG
Apr 18 2007, 05:34 PM
catherine
Apr 18 2007, 05:42 PM
Because it makes God appear to have ultimate power, therefore commanding repect, whilst also giving people an incentive to live well.

So basically God is out to mislead and manipulate us for a power trip?

Well, not God himself. He doesn't exist. God's "representatives" on earth do.

Well I know that....I was looking for a Christian perspective on it! Where are all those Christians who are normally on these boards, anyway? Maybe they're just sick of these arguments...
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Katastrof
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BohemianG
 

Well I know that....I was looking for a Christian perspective on it! Where are all those Christians who are normally on these boards, anyway? Maybe they're just sick of these arguments...

Sick of arguments? You underestimate us.
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NeoAegis
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bear
Apr 19 2007, 03:08 PM
Maybe being an atheist is a pessimistic point of view. Believing that you just rot in the ground could be a form of pessimism, where as believing that there is such a great phenomonea out there that simple humans will never be able to understand brings a form of excitement, at least to me, which is very optimistic. Of course as you get older death doesn't seem that bad. It all happens natural. Even if you get shot up, your body takes care of you. You go into shock and pass away. If your about to get into a head-on collision, your mind blacks-out seconds before impact.

I don't know what my point was I was just throwing stuff out there.

I don't see pessimism in it at all. I mean, you get to do what you want to do without some vague angry deity condemning you for some old forgotten sin. You just die and that's it!
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严加华
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bear
Apr 20 2007, 04:08 AM
Maybe being an atheist is a pessimistic point of view.

An atheist believes that human beings can be decent, moral people without the vague threat of eternal torture at the hands of a "loving" fictitious being. A religious person -- read Falcon's word if you don't believe this -- believes that it's impossible to be moral without said threat.

Yeah. Atheists are the pessimistic ones.
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koala
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NeoAegis
Apr 20 2007, 12:28 AM
bear
Apr 19 2007, 03:08 PM
Maybe being an atheist is a pessimistic point of view. Believing that you just rot in the ground could be a form of pessimism, where as believing that there is such a great phenomonea out there that simple humans will never be able to understand brings a form of excitement, at least to me, which is very optimistic. Of course as you get older death doesn't seem that bad. It all happens natural. Even if you get shot up, your body takes care of you. You go into shock and pass away. If your about to get into a head-on collision, your mind blacks-out seconds before impact.

I don't know what my point was I was just throwing stuff out there.

I don't see pessimism in it at all. I mean, you get to do what you want to do without some vague angry deity condemning you for some old forgotten sin. You just die and that's it!

Right. Like I said I was just throwing stuff out there. If you die and rot in the ground then you die and rot in the ground, but maybe there's something unexplainable out there instead. I'm torn between the two.

Chinese guy, atheists don't believe in god or an afterlife. So not believing that there is something greater that we can't even comprehend could be pessimistic.

Which brings back the question. why are we here ? how did we get here? If we started out as microbes and evolved over time then where did the microbes come from ? That question alone makes me believe that there is some universal force that binds us all together into existence.
A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. You think when Jesus comes back he ever wants to see a fucking cross? It's like going up to Jackie Onassis wearing a rifle pendant.
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agafaba
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bear
Apr 20 2007, 06:40 AM
NeoAegis
Apr 20 2007, 12:28 AM
bear
Apr 19 2007, 03:08 PM
Maybe being an atheist is a pessimistic point of view. Believing that you just rot in the ground could be a form of pessimism, where as believing that there is such a great phenomonea out there that simple humans will never be able to understand brings a form of excitement, at least to me, which is very optimistic. Of course as you get older death doesn't seem that bad. It all happens natural. Even if you get shot up, your body takes care of you. You go into shock and pass away. If your about to get into a head-on collision, your mind blacks-out seconds before impact.

I don't know what my point was I was just throwing stuff out there.

I don't see pessimism in it at all. I mean, you get to do what you want to do without some vague angry deity condemning you for some old forgotten sin. You just die and that's it!

Right. Like I said I was just throwing stuff out there. If you die and rot in the ground then you die and rot in the ground, but maybe there's something unexplainable out there instead. I'm torn between the two.

Chinese guy, atheists don't believe in god or an afterlife. So not believing that there is something greater that we can't even comprehend could be pessimistic.

Which brings back the question. why are we here ? how did we get here? If we started out as microbes and evolved over time then where did the microbes come from ? That question alone makes me believe that there is some universal force that binds us all together into existence.

Gravity?


On a slightly serious note, it could still be chance. If the odds of life in the universe were 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% every million years, and you have all of eternity to keep trying, that small percentage will happen eventually.

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严加华
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bear
Apr 20 2007, 02:40 PM
Chinese guy, atheists don't believe in god or an afterlife. So not believing that there is something greater that we can't even comprehend could be pessimistic.

Which brings back the question. why are we here ? how did we get here? If we started out as microbes and evolved over time then where did the microbes come from ? That question alone makes me believe that there is some universal force that binds us all together into existence.

I see no pessimism there. Pessimism would be saying something bad. There's nothing bad in reality being what it is. It just is.

And as to "why are we here?" I recommend looking at evolution for some answers. And at various branches of astrophysics and cosmology. It all depends, really, on how far back you want to take the question. And, no matter how far back you go, you will always have another question which can't be answered.

See? You don't need an invisible friend in the sky to have something greater you cannot comprehend out there. You just need mathematics. Goedel wins again.
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Killer Bee
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So not believing that there is something greater that we can't even comprehend could be pessimistic.


How so? I could turn this around and say that human nature can get your deity angry and condemn all humanity to eternal damnation and suffering. Sound a little pessimistic?
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Grenelle
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BohemianG
Apr 19 2007, 09:54 PM
Grenelle
Apr 19 2007, 03:58 PM
BohemianG
Apr 18 2007, 05:34 PM
catherine
Apr 18 2007, 05:42 PM
Because it makes God appear to have ultimate power, therefore commanding repect, whilst also giving people an incentive to live well.

So basically God is out to mislead and manipulate us for a power trip?

Well, not God himself. He doesn't exist. God's "representatives" on earth do.

Well I know that....I was looking for a Christian perspective on it! Where are all those Christians who are normally on these boards, anyway? Maybe they're just sick of these arguments...

Yeah, sorry. I did realise that, I just couldn't resist! :P


A christian would smile, pat you on the back, tell you you're delusional and the pray for you. At least, that's what they tend to do to me!

I love it when they can't answer you're question and "Oh! But that's the most wonderful thing about God! He's above human understanding!"
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Rouge sur blanc, tout fout le camp.
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Mister Sinister
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Apr 20 2007, 04:10 AM
Goedel wins again.

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I love it. In the middle of winter, he would leave all of the windows open in his home because he believed that conspirators were trying to assassinate him with poison gas. In the 1940s he suffered from a bleeding ulcer, but his distrust of doctors led him to delay treatment; he risked death and was saved only by emergency blood transfusion.

Amongst his delusions was the belief that unknown villains were trying to kill him by poisoning his food. For this reason, Goedel would only eat his wife's cooking, refusing even to eat his own cooking for fear of being poisoned.

I think your answers to "why" we are here are more adept at answering "how" we got here. Maybe for you the meaning holds similar if not identical philosophical meaning. Would you say those who reach for God are doing simply that, reaching? I mean to say, even in 'my" infinite wisdom ;) , I have to admit to myself that it's possible that there is a great being or mover of things...a superbeing we can never fully understand, even after death. What would you say to that incredibly vague description of God?
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DirkNL
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Mister Sinister
Apr 20 2007, 05:30 PM
refusing even to eat his own cooking for fear of being poisoned.

Probably a bad cook.

Anyways, I agree with Mister Sinister - you can't exclude the possibility of a god, although you can believe (or not believe) in His (or Her, of course) existence.
However, that does NOT mean that that is an excuse to duck scientific or logical issues.
Just my 2 cents.

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catherine
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I think if there is a god, they'll be watching us as if we were lab rats, rather than children. So no moral judgement.

Sometimes I think I believe in reincarnation, but that all "souls" are identical and you carry absolutely no trace of former personalities or memories. And because most life is quite "primitive", it's very unlikely you'll have eyes again any time soon. And as there's probably life elsewhere in the universe, it's very unlikely you'll ever be on Earth again.

Other times I'm just a straightout atheist. For a while I believed the closest thing to a god was the fundamental laws of mathematics.
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