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Bring Back Gladiators
Topic Started: Apr 27 2007, 03:48 AM (1,819 Views)
whiteholes
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Quote:
 
As I said earlier in this post, mentall illness is not genetic. That you become a mudrerer is not to be blamed upon your ancestors or chance. It's a combination of factors, some physical (high testosterone levels), some mental (mental illness, personality) and some environmental (having had a very bad youth). Also, people suffer more in prison than they do when you kill them, if punishment is your goal. If you kill them, they just have one shot of pain, and then it's all over. If they get a life sentence, they have their concious playing mental games with them all the time. Not to mention the guards who can be bitches. Also, those people can be of use to society by that 21st century thingy most people call rehab.


I challenge you to be more informed on the topic of mental illnesses. Only then you'll realise that it results from genetics, trauma, biological factors such as infections or toxins, or neuroplasticity resulting from psychological or anthropological factors. As you can see, there are many reasons. One of them is due to genes. And if it is due to genes, it can be passed on. Not so good isnt it?

And is crime simply due to high testosterone levels, mental illness or environment? If crime is committed by a bloody retard, i dont think he is guilty. If he is really is mentally ill, he did not in any sane mind decide to commit that crime, and shouldnt be punished. The jail is not a place for him. Just spend more tax payer's money build a nice asylum for him, and put him there. Crimes are also partly due to agressive genes. Something that we cannot prevent unless we cut the thread somewhere. That is by capital punishment.

Can you read my mind or something? The living hell idea. LOL. I was expecting that. But in order to sustain such a suitable hell for the criminals, is it really justifiable to spend tax payers money on making hell suitable for these people. Wasting resources, sand, steel, just to build prisons for them.

Rehab. Do you think this will work? Seriously? Maybe let's try altering their genes, that perhaps might work. :D In order to rehab successfully, you need an incredible amount of resources. And damn it, no way i'll fund the government to help these people to rehab. Here's an example from taipei.FAILED A failed rehab leading to great public resources and many repeat offenders. These asses never learn... do they?

Quote:
 
Death sentence:

I allegedly murder someone > I get killed > I turn out not to have murdered anybody > The state fucked up once again.


Quote:
 
If you kill them, they just have one shot of pain, and then it's all over. If they get a life sentence, they have their concious playing mental games with them all the time. Not to mention the guards who can be bitches.


Oh DAMN! You might have just made him suffer a hell lot more in prison. I bet he'd rather meet the devil in hell.


Now read the statistics and be convinced that your naive idea of rehab isnt going to work so easily. Rehab is just another way of saying "I want fucking world peace!"

Those criminals are just a hindrance and burden to society.
It gives me great pleasure to see the stubborness of the incorrigible nonconformist get warmly acclaimed.
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DirkNL
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whiteholes
May 12 2007, 05:48 PM
Quote:
 
As I said earlier in this post, mentall illness is not genetic. That you become a mudrerer is not to be blamed upon your ancestors or chance. It's a combination of factors, some physical (high testosterone levels), some mental (mental illness, personality) and some environmental (having had a very bad youth). Also, people suffer more in prison than they do when you kill them, if punishment is your goal. If you kill them, they just have one shot of pain, and then it's all over. If they get a life sentence, they have their concious playing mental games with them all the time. Not to mention the guards who can be bitches. Also, those people can be of use to society by that 21st century thingy most people call rehab.


I challenge you to be more informed on the topic of mental illnesses. Only then you'll realise that it results from genetics, trauma, biological factors such as infections or toxins, or neuroplasticity resulting from psychological or anthropological factors. As you can see, there are many reasons. One of them is due to genes. And if it is due to genes, it can be passed on. Not so good isnt it?

Where do you got this notion from anyways? I browse Wikipedia on a daily basis about this, I'm informed to the max on this subject as I'm



  • On a school for mentally ill people (yes, I'm misdiagnosed)


  • A future neurologst and already getting as much information as I can




whiteholes
May 12 2007, 05:48 PM
And is crime simply due to high testosterone levels, mental illness or environment? If crime is committed by a bloody retard, i dont think he is guilty. If he is really is mentally ill, he did not in any sane mind decide to commit that crime, and shouldnt be punished. The jail is not a place for him. Just spend more tax payer's money build a nice asylum for him, and put him there. Crimes are also partly due to agressive genes. Something that we cannot prevent unless we cut the thread somewhere. That is by capital punishment.

Ah, I love it when people are inexperienced with their native language. It read e.g. That means that it is only an example from a big list. Crime has many reasons (economic differences is another example), but genetics is simply far fetched. I'm challenging you to get another source on this, as just a single research is never enough. (If you got experience on this, you might know that researches tend to contradict eachother.)

whiteholes
May 12 2007, 05:48 PM
Can you read my mind or something? The living hell idea. LOL. I was expecting that. But in order to sustain such a suitable hell for the criminals, is it really justifiable to spend tax payers money on making hell suitable for these people. Wasting resources, sand, steel, just to build prisons for them.

So you think that people who are mentally ill, rob someone for they desperately need money, or have any other good reason to commit crime don't deserve to live?

whiteholes
May 12 2007, 05:48 PM
Rehab. Do you think this will work? Seriously? Maybe let's try altering their genes, that perhaps might work.  :D In order to rehab successfully, you need an incredible amount of resources. And damn it, no way i'll fund the government to help these people to rehab. Here's an example from taipei.FAILED  A failed rehab leading to great public resources and many repeat offenders. These asses never learn... do they?


Do you really think that altering one's genes actually works in adulthood? Really? Don't make me laugh. You'll have to alter EACH INDIVIDUAL CELL to do it right. But since that's impossible (both with and without killing the person in question), your argument is bullshit. Also, I can't take someone who supports nazist style eugenics seriously.

whiteholes
May 12 2007, 05:48 PM
Quote:
 
Death sentence:

I allegedly murder someone > I get killed > I turn out not to have murdered anybody > The state fucked up once again.


Quote:
 
If you kill them, they just have one shot of pain, and then it's all over. If they get a life sentence, they have their concious playing mental games with them all the time. Not to mention the guards who can be bitches.


Oh DAMN! You might have just made him suffer a hell lot more in prison. I bet he'd rather meet the devil in hell.

I smell Christian conservatism. How can you even prove that hell exists to begin with?

whiteholes
May 12 2007, 05:48 PM
Now read the statistics and be convinced that your naive idea of rehab isnt going to work so easily. Rehab is just another way of saying "I want fucking world peace!"

Those criminals are just a hindrance and burden to society.

Statistics? What statistics? You haven't even provided any statistics. That Taipei example (which is just one city) is hardly a statistic. Stop bitching about things you don't provide, okay?

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whiteholes
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Where do you got this notion from anyways? I browse Wikipedia on a daily basis about this, I'm informed to the max on this subject as I'm

    * On a school for mentally ill people (yes, I'm misdiagnosed)
    * A future neurologst and already getting as much information as I can


I got that information from wikipedia. You dont read at all. And 'i browse wikipedia on a daily basis about this' . LOL. Do you really read? hmmm....

Quote:
 
Ah, I love it when people are inexperienced with their native language. It read e.g. That means that it is only an example from a big list. Crime has many reasons (economic differences is another example), but genetics is simply far fetched. I'm challenging you to get another source on this, as just a single research is never enough. (If you got experience on this, you might know that researches tend to contradict eachother.)


Now i see a poor angel robbing the rich for his own use. He has perfect genes. If a research contradict each other, that means the theory DOES NOT stand anymore. So now, it's for you to find one that contradicts mine.

Will you be satisfied even if i find you another source? You would reply 'I'm challenging you to get another source on this, as just two research is never enough.'
Are you enemies with google or something?

Quote:
 
So you think that people who are mentally ill, rob someone for they desperately need money, or have any other good reason to commit crime don't deserve to live?


There..there.

"WHITEHOLES"
 
If he is really is mentally ill, he did not in any sane mind decide to commit that crime, and shouldnt be punished.
I have stated my point.


Quote:
 
Do you really think that altering one's genes actually works in adulthood? Really? Don't make me laugh. You'll have to alter EACH INDIVIDUAL CELL to do it right. But since that's impossible (both with and without killing the person in question), your argument is bullshit. Also, I can't take someone who supports nazist style eugenics seriously.


It's hilarious. Dont you ever detect sarcasm? Maybe let me put it simply. Rehab is ineffective.


Quote:
 
I smell Christian conservatism. How can you even prove that hell exists to begin with?


Once again. You never fail to amuse me.

There, i've done you a favour by looking up the dictionary for you.

Hell, n.

1. often Hell The abode of condemned souls and devils in some religions; the place of eternal punishment for the wicked after death, presided over by Satan.
2. A situation or place of evil, misery, discord, or destruction


Hell in this context, we use the second, explanation.

Quote:
 
Statistics? What statistics? You haven't even provided any statistics. Stop bitching about things you don't provide, okay?


I have given links to the source in attempt to enlighten you on this topic. And if you have read the taipei news, you would have noticed figures.

You know, abuse is often much easier than debate especially if one is intellectually bankrupt.













It gives me great pleasure to see the stubborness of the incorrigible nonconformist get warmly acclaimed.
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Sarpedon
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I'm sorry for what they have done to you whiteholes.
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whiteholes
May 12 2007, 06:42 PM
Quote:
 
Where do you got this notion from anyways? I browse Wikipedia on a daily basis about this, I'm informed to the max on this subject as I'm

    * On a school for mentally ill people (yes, I'm misdiagnosed)
    * A future neurologst and already getting as much information as I can


I got that information from wikipedia. You dont read at all. And 'i browse wikipedia on a daily basis about this' . LOL. Do you really read? hmmm....

Of course. You seem to be intellectually bankrupt, if you wouldn't be you wouldn't be using a buillshit argument like this now.
whiteholes
May 12 2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:
 
Ah, I love it when people are inexperienced with their native language. It read e.g. That means that it is only an example from a big list. Crime has many reasons (economic differences is another example), but genetics is simply far fetched. I'm challenging you to get another source on this, as just a single research is never enough. (If you got experience on this, you might know that researches tend to contradict eachother.)


Now i see a poor angel robbing the rich for his own use. He has perfect genes. If a research contradict each other, that means the theory DOES NOT stand anymore. So now, it's for you to find one that contradicts mine.


http://www.tommys.org/dr_media/tommys/Medical_genetics_12-May-07.pdf
 
Q: There is a history of mental illness in myfamily. I am worried about passing this on. A: It is important that you start by going to your doctor and talking through your concerns. Not all types of mental illness are hereditary and while this was very much a taboo subject a few years ago, attitudes and treatment are changing. You will need to find out as much as you can about your family history, both medical and social. In some cases, people were wrongly diagnosed as having mental illnesses when in fact they had underlying emotional difficulties or medical illnesses.


There ya go.

whiteholes
May 12 2007, 06:42 PM

Will you be satisfied even if i find you another source? You would reply 'I'm challenging you to get another source on this, as just two research is never enough.'
Are you enemies with google or something?


You're just making this up, don't you?

whiteholes
May 12 2007, 06:42 PM
Quote:
 
So you think that people who are mentally ill, rob someone for they desperately need money, or have any other good reason to commit crime don't deserve to live?


There..there.

"WHITEHOLES"
 
If he is really is mentally ill, he did not in any sane mind decide to commit that crime, and shouldnt be punished.
I have stated my point.


Quote:
 
rob someone for they desperately need money


And that isn't a good reason? You seem to be intellectually bankrupt o this one as well, as you don't seem to cover an entire post. Read before bashing your head on the keyboard, mkay?

whiteholes
May 12 2007, 06:42 PM
Quote:
 
Do you really think that altering one's genes actually works in adulthood? Really? Don't make me laugh. You'll have to alter EACH INDIVIDUAL CELL to do it right. But since that's impossible (both with and without killing the person in question), your argument is bullshit. Also, I can't take someone who supports nazist style eugenics seriously.


It's hilarious. Dont you ever detect sarcasm? Maybe let me put it simply. Rehab is ineffective.


No arguments? I win.

whiteholes
May 12 2007, 06:42 PM
Quote:
 
I smell Christian conservatism. How can you even prove that hell exists to begin with?


Once again. You never fail to amuse me.

There, i've done you a favour by looking up the dictionary for you.

Hell, n.

1. often Hell The abode of condemned souls and devils in some religions; the place of eternal punishment for the wicked after death, presided over by Satan.
2. A situation or place of evil, misery, discord, or destruction


Hell in this context, we use the second, explanation.


Oh, so why are you talking about meeting the devil in hell:
Quote:
 
I bet he'd rather meet the devil in hell.


Now don't go bitching that I made it up as you can read that the page before this one.

whiteholes
May 12 2007, 06:42 PM
Quote:
 
Statistics? What statistics? You haven't even provided any statistics. Stop bitching about things you don't provide, okay?


I have given links to the source in attempt to enlighten you on this topic. And if you have read the taipei news, you would have noticed figures.

You know, abuse is often much easier than debate especially if one is intellectually bankrupt.

Re-read my post. That taipei news article is hardly a counting statistic as it's just about a single city, not the entire world.

Also, you like arguing with mods on day one don't you?

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I find this intellectually amusing. You have pleased your emperor, continue.
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Don't use appeals to authority, Dirk.
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May 12 2007, 07:11 PM
Don't use appeals to authority, Dirk.

I don't - if someone would join to argue and it would be a member he'd be arguing with I would become greedy to the banstick as well.

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All we do is argue in the politics and religion topics.
So far he seems to fit in perfectly


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I find this intellectually amusing. You have pleased your emperor, continue.

hehehe true dat
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piercehawkeye45
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Whiteholes, first of all it is cheaper to keep someone in prison for life than it is too perform capital punishment since capital punishment involves many lawyers, lawsuits, and other VERY expensive methods.

Second, what is the point of killing someone? It doesn't do anything and I personally think that letting someone rot in prison is a worst punishment than a quick death.

Third, there are instances where a case is picked up later on and someone who has been put life in prison has been found innocent, he can be released later if it is just life in prison instead of being killed.

Fourth, it is barbaric to kill prisoner, no other 1st world country does it and there is no point to it.

Fifth, if it ever gets passed, prisoners can do manual labor instead of just being stuck in a cell their whole life. That means they can benefit society instead of just being a burden.



Now on to your nature versus nurture debate.

First, it is naive to think that it is all genetics that cause violence instead of how of the place someone was raised. The majority of criminals that are in for violent crime are inner city minorities, which is one implying racism, and two is implying that the lower class is naturally more violent.

There is nothing that shows that a particular are any more violent than any other and history back this up. Every race is violent and to imply that blacks and Mexicans are more violent than any group is very ignorant.

All the violence answers can be traced to social forces. Poor areas have always been a place of crime because they are ones that are more desperate for survival and don't have a safety net if something does go wrong. Also, America's culture in general is very violent and if you look at other countries, the crime rate is much lower even though America is a nation of immigrants that have come from those countries.
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I have found the enemy and he is us.
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严加华
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whiteholes
May 12 2007, 10:34 PM
piercehawkeye45
Apr 27 2007, 03:58 AM
I'm against the death penalty so I'm against it.

Why are you against the death penalty? Would you rather the agressive, crime committing, murderous genes to remain in a much civilized human society or to wipe out these criminals and prevent these unwanted genes to be passed on?

You would rather these criminals be put in prison, with meals and accomodation provided for these bastards of society for the rest of their lives. Wasting the ever so hardworking tax payers money on building high security prisons, buying food and even uniform just to keep these useless bastards of society alive. What for? To reproduce like what humans enjoy and to have more kids with similar agressive genes? LOL. You cannot not be agressive if IT is in you. Embedded in your genes.

Therefore no death sentence results in a simple equation:

I MURDER/ COMMIT TREASON/ RAPE = REST OF LIFE TAKEN CARE BY OUR DEAREST TAX PAYERS

Why not just come out with a nice simple solution?

Simplest solution: Capital punishment.

Most entertaining solution yet simple solution: Capital punishment + some swords + some shields + some sandals. And there you have yourself another form of entertainment and another way people can place bets. (+revenue for the country) One word to describe: perfect.

Capital punishment costs the taxpayer more than does life imprisonment.
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May 12 2007, 11:10 PM
whiteholes
May 12 2007, 10:34 PM
piercehawkeye45
Apr 27 2007, 03:58 AM
I'm against the death penalty so I'm against it.

Why are you against the death penalty? Would you rather the agressive, crime committing, murderous genes to remain in a much civilized human society or to wipe out these criminals and prevent these unwanted genes to be passed on?

You would rather these criminals be put in prison, with meals and accomodation provided for these bastards of society for the rest of their lives. Wasting the ever so hardworking tax payers money on building high security prisons, buying food and even uniform just to keep these useless bastards of society alive. What for? To reproduce like what humans enjoy and to have more kids with similar agressive genes? LOL. You cannot not be agressive if IT is in you. Embedded in your genes.

Therefore no death sentence results in a simple equation:

I MURDER/ COMMIT TREASON/ RAPE = REST OF LIFE TAKEN CARE BY OUR DEAREST TAX PAYERS

Why not just come out with a nice simple solution?

Simplest solution: Capital punishment.

Most entertaining solution yet simple solution: Capital punishment + some swords + some shields + some sandals. And there you have yourself another form of entertainment and another way people can place bets. (+revenue for the country) One word to describe: perfect.

Capital punishment costs the taxpayer more than does life imprisonment.

Word. Is it ever right to kill a human being ? of course not. do i care if they do anyway ? of course not, the more the merrier. eye for an eye pretty much sums it up for me.
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whiteholes
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Now there's 4 people against me eh? Great, this is just getting thrilling.

Quote:
 
Of course. You seem to be intellectually bankrupt, if you wouldn't be you wouldn't be using a buillshit argument like this now.


Frist, I wuold liek to corect your speling. buillshit is suposed to be speled as bullshit.

And the point of this article is how amusing it is when one says he reads wikipedia daily and didnt figure out that i got my information from there. The big question is: can i trust this guy? Is what he says reliable?

As you said 'Not all types of mental illness are hereditary'. That's it. It just shows it CANbe hereditary. And
"Dirk"
 
As I said earlier in this post, mentall illness is not genetic.
is nonsensical.

Quote:
 
Oh, so why are you talking about meeting the devil in hell:

Do you have any sense of humor? I'll rephrase it as simply as i can. He would rather die than spend a hell in prison.

Quote:
 
No arguments? I win.

What arguments? I have given many arguments on how rehab is ineffective and you couldnt understand. So i just put it as simply as i can for you to comprehend.

Quote:
 
Re-read my post. That taipei news article is hardly a counting statistic as it's just about a single city, not the entire world.


I said that it is an example of how rehab can fail so badly if not funded or carried out properly. So rehab is expensive and does not guarantee success. And figures just made the article more convincing and reliable on how rehab can fail.

Quote:
 
Also, you like arguing with mods on day one don't you?


May i ask how different is mods from members? Mods have just the extra responsibility to maintain this site and not the advantage to winning debates using their authority. And if you consider this an argument, seriously, i wouldn't carry on.

Quote:
 
I find this intellectually amusing.


Good. It takes brains to understand.

Quote:
 
Whiteholes, first of all it is cheaper to keep someone in prison for life than it is too perform capital punishment since capital punishment involves many lawyers, lawsuits, and other VERY expensive methods.
Quote:
 
Capital punishment costs the taxpayer more than does life imprisonment.


Have you forgotten the title of this topic? It is not whether we should capital punish but whether we should revive gladiators. And someone in the earlier posts said something like using prisoners to fight. And how expensive is that?

Quote:
 
Fourth, it is barbaric to kill prisoner, no other 1st world country does it and there is no point to it.


Isnt it as babaric for prisoners to commit crime? Or you think that rape, murder, treason are all civilised actions. The offenders have to face the punishment for what they have done. And if they kill, they ought to die as well.



THEREFORE, as clear as it can be

1. Rehab is ineffective and very expensive.
2. Mental illness is a cause for crime. Mental illness can be caused by genes. Therefore genes may cause crime. But that doesn not mean it is the SOLE reason.
3. Killing prisoners are babaric. As babaric as prisoners commiting crime.
4. Making them fight in gladiator matches are CHEAP(are you going to get me a source that calculates cost of gladiators? Nah, this is just common sense) and entertaining. ROME FTW!
5. Wikipedia seems to be hiding from Dirk.
6. Are you guys afraid to die if you commit crime?



It gives me great pleasure to see the stubborness of the incorrigible nonconformist get warmly acclaimed.
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whiteholes
May 13 2007, 11:19 AM
Frist, I wuold liek to corect your speling.
(Emphasis added.)

I'm not sure if you've seen my other posts here, but I've expressed the view frequently that irony is my favourite single thing in life.

Quote:
 
Isnt it as babaric for prisoners to commit crime?


If the punishment is as barbaric as the crime, what, precisely, separates us from the barbarians?

Quote:
 
Something is wrong with the quoting function.


Something more is wrong with the person quoting, frankly.

Edited to add:
Quote:
 
6. Are you guys afraid to die if you commit crime?


I'm more afraid of dying because of the corrupt and incompetent agents of the state fingering me for a crime I didn't commit, actually. The problem with all your textual wanking is the assumption, unstated but present, that we can know for certain if someone has committed a crime or not and if said crime was in any way justifiable or defensible or not. The problem is, I think, a few too many episodes of CSI. In reality? Evidence is typically tenuous and subject to interpretation. I would, for example, as a jury member, never proclaim someone guilty -- no matter how sure I was he did it -- if that person faced the death penalty. Because, arrogant ass that I am, I'm not so arrogant as to assume that I know enough to fuck with people's lives so directly.

Your mileage may vary.
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