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Bring Back Gladiators
Topic Started: Apr 27 2007, 03:48 AM (1,818 Views)
piercehawkeye45
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whiteholes
May 12 2007, 10:19 PM
Quote:
 
Whiteholes, first of all it is cheaper to keep someone in prison for life than it is too perform capital punishment since capital punishment involves many lawyers, lawsuits, and other VERY expensive methods.
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Capital punishment costs the taxpayer more than does life imprisonment.


Have you forgotten the title of this topic? It is not whether we should capital punish but whether we should revive gladiators. And someone in the earlier posts said something like using prisoners to fight. And how expensive is that?

You quoted me first by saying that I was against capital punishment so I assumed you were talking about the current process and not the gladiator idea, which makes the argument even more complex.

If we did the gladiator idea and did make it cheaper we would have to get rid of all the appeals and lawsuits which would emphasis my second, third, and fourth point even more.

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Isnt it as babaric for prisoners to commit crime? Or you think that rape, murder, treason are all civilised actions. The offenders have to face the punishment for what they have done. And if they kill, they ought to die as well.

They should be punished but not an eye for an eye method. We do not have to go down to that level to give "payback", we can use other methods that involve a longer period of punishment and one that can be economically profitable.

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1. Rehab is ineffective and very expensive.

I beg to differ. Rehab may be expensive but if it is done the right way (the if means that it isn't done the right way now), it can be effective and I personally think it is money well spent if we can help someone get back on their feet since most criminals are socially made not genetically made.

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2. Mental illness is a cause for crime. Mental illness can be caused by genes. Therefore genes may cause crime. But that doesn not mean it is the SOLE reason.

You live a sheltered life don't you? Maybe crime is caused by the social standard of having to be tough, to hold your ground, and to prove that you are tougher and a bigger badass than everyone else. Maybe it has to do with getting money to put food on the table. Maybe it has to do that you have to work two jobs in order to keep above the poverty level in America. All of these factors are social and caused by the people up top, not mental illness.

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3. Killing prisoners are babaric. As babaric as prisoners commiting crime.

Once again, going down to their level is not going to solve anything or deter more crime. We might as well get something out of them.

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4. Making them fight in gladiator matches are CHEAP(are you going to get me a source that calculates cost of gladiators? Nah, this is just common sense) and entertaining. ROME FTW!

It is only cheap if you get rid of appeals and lawsuits which are necessary if you are going to perform capital punishment. I don't see how two people killing each other is exciting, it is barbaric and will only cause society to become even more violent.

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6. Are you guys afraid to die if you commit crime?

I agree 100% with [][][].
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
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whiteholes
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I'm not sure if you've seen my other posts here, but I've expressed the view frequently that irony is my favourite single thing in life.


Marvellous! I like you. You are one of the few who can appreciate irony. "Frist, I wuold liek to corect your speling." LOL. you get my point... hopefully.


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I'm more afraid of dying because of the corrupt and incompetent agents of the state fingering me for a crime I didn't commit, actually. The problem with all your textual wanking is the assumption, unstated but present, that we can know for certain if someone has committed a crime or not and if said crime was in any way justifiable or defensible or not. The problem is, I think, a few too many episodes of CSI. In reality? Evidence is typically tenuous and subject to interpretation. I would, for example, as a jury member, never proclaim someone guilty -- no matter how sure I was he did it -- if that person faced the death penalty. Because, arrogant ass that I am, I'm not so arrogant as to assume that I know enough to Smurf! with people's lives so directly.


In my text above, i have assumed that IF someone commits a crime he ought to be punished accordingly with the death sentence as the highest penalty. You are arguing that it is impossible to determine whether or not one has really committed the crime or not. I see no point in that. You are just simply arguing the existence of an omniscient person.

Off topic in essays usually leaves one with a failing grade.


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It is only cheap if you get rid of appeals and lawsuits which are necessary if you are going to perform capital punishment. I don't see how two people killing each other is exciting, it is barbaric and will only cause society to become even more violent.


I guess you may have misunderstood my previous replies. Gladiator fights do not equate to death sentence. Gladiators DO NOT kill each other. You must have been a victim of the media. Prisoners training and fighting contribute to society by entertaining them. They get a hell lot of discipline in training to be a gladiator. So why not? It's cheaper anyway. We can have a rule, if they win, they are released. If they do win, they get fame and glory, do they need to commit crime ever again? People will love them and treat them as idols. They are no longer poor, but happy people. If they lose, they DO NOT lose their lives. Gladiators are much more civilised than you think.

Capital punishment must not be abolished as explained in the many previous posts. Prisoners should be given a chance to fight in the revived gladiator matches. Rehab is expensive and may help if it is done correctly. Gladiator matches is cheap and will work all the time.

It gives me great pleasure to see the stubborness of the incorrigible nonconformist get warmly acclaimed.
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严加华
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Reading comprehension levels verging on that of a small, slightly soiled condom usually rate an even lower grade.
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koala
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<QUOTE>said that it is an example of how rehab can fail so badly</QUOTE>

yeah rehab doesn't do anything. Wanna know what the best therapy is ? In all honestly I would have to say jerking it. No matter what I've gone through in my life, all I have to do is a little self "meditating" and all is well. Then again that's just me.
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whiteholes
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Quote:
 
yeah rehab doesn't do anything. Wanna know what the best therapy is ? In all honestly I would have to say jerking it. No matter what I've gone through in my life, all I have to do is a little self "meditating" and all is well. Then again that's just me.


Yep, the problem is with oneself. But do everybody have the discipline? And i do agree self "meditating" helps.
It gives me great pleasure to see the stubborness of the incorrigible nonconformist get warmly acclaimed.
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koala
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As far as issues go, The death penalty/capital punishment thing is just fine in America, and I'll tell you why. Pertaining only to convicts on death row, they serve 23 hours of their day locked up in a cell. Now, on the average, their in that shit-hole for 15 years. These guys wish they could die. They're probably counting down the days till their execution. These men are being somewhat tortured, where when it is finally time for them to bite the dust, they bite the dust. So I think there is nothing to change. With the amount of time a convict gets, he has time to get his shit together and waste his appeals.
A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. You think when Jesus comes back he ever wants to see a fucking cross? It's like going up to Jackie Onassis wearing a rifle pendant.
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piercehawkeye45
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whiteholes
May 13 2007, 12:15 AM
So why not? It's cheaper anyway. We can have a rule, if they win, they are released. If they do win, they get fame and glory, do they need to commit crime ever again? People will love them and treat them as idols. They are no longer poor, but happy people. If they lose, they DO NOT lose their lives. Gladiators are much more civilised than you think.

Wait, so you are saying we should train violent criminals to become fighters and let the best ones back on the street?

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Capital punishment must not be abolished as explained in the many previous posts.

I disagree. I am still waiting for your rebuttal against my points...

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Gladiator matches is cheap and will work all the time.

Will work at what? All I see is an incentive for people to become criminals to become rich and famous. This isn’t punishment, it is glory.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
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koala
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piercehawkeye45
May 13 2007, 07:31 AM
whiteholes
May 13 2007, 12:15 AM
So why not? It's cheaper anyway. We can have a rule, if they win, they are released. If they do win, they get fame and glory, do they need to commit crime ever again? People will love them and treat them as idols. They are no longer poor, but happy people. If they lose, they DO NOT lose their lives. Gladiators are much more civilised than you think.

Wait, so you are saying we should train violent criminals to become fighters and let the best ones back on the street?

Quote:
 
Capital punishment must not be abolished as explained in the many previous posts.

I disagree. I am still waiting for your rebuttal against my points...

Quote:
 
Gladiator matches is cheap and will work all the time.

Will work at what? All I see is an incentive for people to become criminals to become rich and famous. This isn’t punishment, it is glory.

well buddy boy look at it like this. The lethal injection way is ok, it's just that the anesthetics have to be right. 1. knock him out 2. and the concoction 3. peaceful death.
A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. You think when Jesus comes back he ever wants to see a fucking cross? It's like going up to Jackie Onassis wearing a rifle pendant.
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Kip1
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Meh I say dont bring back ye olde Gladiator-its just that,an old,ancient practice from a culture that aint half as civilized as ours-Compulsory military service i.e-send em to boot camp for a few years might work in some cases i reckon
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Killer Bee
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Just feed them to lions, if you want to go the ancient "Roman" route. At least then there won't be anyone getting a chance to be released from their cage and rejoin society to committ further crimes. Why have glorified WWE style matches where instead of belts you get your face stitched back together when there are so many starving lions?
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Sarpedon
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"Wikipedia seems to be hiding from Dirk"

"Do you have any sense of humor? I'll rephrase it as simply as i can. He would rather die than spend a hell in prison."

"And the point of this article is how amusing it is when one says he reads wikipedia daily and didnt figure out that i got my information from there. The big question is: can i trust this guy? Is what he says reliable?"

"It's hilarious. Dont you ever detect sarcasm? Maybe let me put it simply. Rehab is ineffective."

"Frist, I wuold liek to corect your speling. buillshit is suposed to be speled as bullshit."


Coil it you. You are starting to get on my nerves. Although I understand things can become heated in an argument. No need to act like an arsehole.

He's right though Dirk being a Mod does not make you any better, although I will take your word over others.
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DirkNL
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whiteholes
May 13 2007, 05:19 AM
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Of course. You seem to be intellectually bankrupt, if you wouldn't be you wouldn't be using a buillshit argument like this now.


Frist, I wuold liek to corect your speling. buillshit is suposed to be speled as bullshit.

Ever heard of typos?

whiteholes
May 13 2007, 05:19 AM
And the point of this article is how amusing it is when one says he reads wikipedia daily and didnt figure out that i got my information from there. The big question is: can i trust this guy? Is what he says reliable?
Oh, so now we start flaming. Nice work >_>

whiteholes
May 13 2007, 05:19 AM
As you said 'Not all types of mental illness are hereditary'. That's it. It just shows it CANbe hereditary. And
"Dirk"
 
As I said earlier in this post, mentall illness is not genetic.
is nonsensical.

You were presenting it like all of them are. In short, you're just using someone else's arguments.

whiteholes
May 13 2007, 05:19 AM
Quote:
 
Oh, so why are you talking about meeting the devil in hell:

Do you have any sense of humor? I'll rephrase it as simply as i can. He would rather die than spend a hell in prison.


I though this was supposed to be a serious debate?

whiteholes
May 13 2007, 05:19 AM
Quote:
 
No arguments? I win.

What arguments? I have given many arguments on how rehab is ineffective and you couldnt understand. So i just put it as simply as i can for you to comprehend.

It speaks for itself. If there's anything of life importance in a discussion, it's an argument. Also, if you're still hammering on the Taipei stats, just read on.

whiteholes
May 13 2007, 05:19 AM
Quote:
 
Re-read my post. That taipei news article is hardly a counting statistic as it's just about a single city, not the entire world.


I said that it is an example of how rehab can fail so badly if not funded or carried out properly. So rehab is expensive and does not guarantee success. And figures just made the article more convincing and reliable on how rehab can fail.


So? It's just of one city. One single city of a few million people doesn't represent a world of a few billion people.

whiteholes
May 13 2007, 05:19 AM
Quote:
 
Also, you like arguing with mods on day one don't you?


May i ask how different is mods from members? Mods have just the extra responsibility to maintain this site and not the advantage to winning debates using their authority. And if you consider this an argument, seriously, i wouldn't carry on.


The point is that I wasn't using that as an argument but as a warning that you better not let this degenerate into a flame war.

whiteholes
May 13 2007, 05:19 AM
Quote:
 
Whiteholes, first of all it is cheaper to keep someone in prison for life than it is too perform capital punishment since capital punishment involves many lawyers, lawsuits, and other VERY expensive methods.
Quote:
 
Capital punishment costs the taxpayer more than does life imprisonment.


Have you forgotten the title of this topic? It is not whether we should capital punish but whether we should revive gladiators. And someone in the earlier posts said something like using prisoners to fight. And how expensive is that?


It's meant to be a discussion. Not a monologue.

whiteholes
May 13 2007, 05:19 AM
5. Wikipedia seems to be hiding from Dirk.


More flaming? Hmm... it really looks like your asking for banz doesn't it?

-Dirk
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Kip1
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Pah! Shoot'em all i say:P Certainly works out cheaper than a tax payer funded Colloseum type arena
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piercehawkeye45
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Dirk, you are the one bringing this thread into a flame war, stop being a douchbag.

DirkNL
 
Ah, I love it when people are inexperienced with their native language


Quote:
 
Of course. You seem to be intellectually bankrupt, if you wouldn't be you wouldn't be using a buillshit argument like this now.


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You seem to be intellectually bankrupt o this one as well, as you don't seem to cover an entire post. Read before bashing your head on the keyboard, mkay?


Quote:
 
Also, you like arguing with mods on day one don't you?


Besides that, your last post added NOTHING to do with th argument Dirk. Both of you, Dirk AND Whiteholes, get back on topic.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
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agafaba
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CSI stuff works great... assuming you have a group of very smart scientist/cops with every piece of brand new technology, not to mention that said group would only do one case at a time. I agree with [][][] that I would have trouble telling someone to die because I can never be 100% sure he/she did it. Maybe we should be looking into a way to "fix" bad genetics (like a medication to curve bursts of anger from those prone to it) and not teaching them to fight.
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