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Flag burning. . . .; legitamat form of protest or unholy sin?
Topic Started: Apr 30 2007, 05:06 PM (2,272 Views)
Khan
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Brutus
May 2 2007, 03:59 PM
you are saying that a peice of land that belongs to 13 million people should be took off them and given to a religion that already controls half the planet has over 1 billion members,    talk about abusing a minority!

the israeli army has done alot of disgusting things and i hate them for it but that doesn't lessen their claim to that land, that is where their religion was born, that is where their ancestors fled from slavery to and that is where they were kicked out of all those years ago, and they want it back.

Last time, I don't say Israelites must be evicted. All the harm is done now, and to remove them would aggravate the things even deeper.

In short, not to tire your eyes, I say: "let it stay so", but for me, Jerusalem needs to be autonomous.

I merely recall Jewish aggression in the past, and spew my anger over the media corporations. Jews have also done their horror in the past, as Turkic Tribes did, as Vikings, The Rus, and every archaic society did.

I just say that no one is innocent, and EVERY OF OUR ancestors' past mistakes and evils need to be correctly remembered, NEVER ignored just to look good in the eyes of wealthy jews and pro-israel world. Else they will be repeated, in one place or other.
Wine in hand, in the other, Quran,
Both halal I do and haram,
In this incomplete world of a sham,
Neither Pagan I am, nor Musselman!


Omar Khayyam

Come, come, whoever you are,
Wanderer, idolater, worshipper of fire,
Come even though you have broken your vows a thousand times,
Come, and come yet again.
Ours is not a caravan of despair


Mevlana Jalaladdin Rumi
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Brutus
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you cannot divide the area between them, neither is willing to accept less than all of israel, one side must get it and i beleive that side should be Israel.

If the Jews lose Israel then they're are no more Jewish countries left and they will all be forced to live as minorities and that is what led to all the persecution that has taken place in the past. to the Jews Israel is more than a country.

If the palestinians get it back then they would immediatly stop all jewish pilgrims from getting to the Wailing Wall or any other Jewish site and the Jews will not be able to visit the birthplace and rightful home of their religion.

And the western world supports Israel because if they didn't then they would be destroyed as the entire middle east would attack them and despite israels skilled army and its shows of force and victories (such as the 6 day war) they could not win such as fight because they are too small.
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Killer Bee
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Quote:
 
If the Jews lose Israel then they're are no more Jewish countries left and they will all be forced to live as minorities


Kind of like the Palestinians are right now?

Quote:
 
and that is what led to all the persecution that has taken place in the past. to the Jews Israel is more than a country.


The same with the Palestinians.

Quote:
 
If the palestinians get it back then they would immediatly stop all jewish pilgrims from getting to the Wailing Wall or any other Jewish site and the Jews will not be able to visit the birthplace and rightful home of their religion.


I think that not being able to visit the birthplace of ones religion is a little less extreme than being kicked off your land and forced to live in refugee camps on the border of where you once called home.

Quote:
 
And the western world supports Israel because if they didn't then they would be destroyed as the entire middle east would attack them and despite israels skilled army and its shows of force and victories (such as the 6 day war) they could not win such as fight because they are too small.


This is also the same reason that the western world and the middle east will never be able to co-exist with one another.
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BohemianG
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Killer Bee
May 3 2007, 07:24 PM
This is also the same reason that the western world and the middle east will never be able to co-exist happily with one another.

Fixed. Since, er, we do co-exist. And I wish we could just get along, but in the real world it ain't gonna happen. More's the pity.
Mister 'Balls' Sinister
 
Normandy took more balls than Vietnam, it took more balls than Korea, it took more balls than facing mustard gas on a battlefield full of giant ditches with nowhere to run. It took more balls than the world will ever be able to ante up again.
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Khan
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HAVE YOU HEARD OF THIS SWEET WEBSITE CALLED FOUR CHAN DOT ORG?
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Brutus
May 3 2007, 05:06 PM
And the western world supports Israel because if they didn't then they would be destroyed as the entire middle east would attack them and despite israels skilled army and its shows of force and victories (such as the 6 day war) they could not win such as fight because they are too small.

Until this paragraph you represented a solid argument.

You must quit your Alternate Bizarro Universe where the whole Middle East is a monolithic entity of Zerg which can only be stopped by the (Not-so) Divine Western Intervention.

Saudis are litte more than lazy camels, as is every Gas Station country along the Fertile Crescent and the Arabian Peninsula. Iran? It is in a shitload of trouble, don't worry, they hate Ahmaqinedjad even now (Pun intended). Iraq? *faction eliminated*

Palestine? Their Mullahs make sure they forever stay poor, as to collect aid from the world and keep their luxurious life.

Brutus, you want a free, rich and peaceful Israel teemng with life and laughter?

Find a formula which will evaporate every war-preaching ultra-nationalist Rabbi,Politician,Arms Dealers and Imams and their toadies. Happy End.
Wine in hand, in the other, Quran,
Both halal I do and haram,
In this incomplete world of a sham,
Neither Pagan I am, nor Musselman!


Omar Khayyam

Come, come, whoever you are,
Wanderer, idolater, worshipper of fire,
Come even though you have broken your vows a thousand times,
Come, and come yet again.
Ours is not a caravan of despair


Mevlana Jalaladdin Rumi
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piercehawkeye45
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Brutus
May 3 2007, 12:06 PM
you cannot divide the area between them, neither is willing to accept less than all of israel, one side must get it and i beleive that side should be Israel.

You've never heard of the one-state solution have you?

How about we don't label it a Jewish or a Muslim state and let both of them live there. That is only solution that makes sense.

Quote:
 
If the Jews lose Israel then they're are no more Jewish countries left and they will all be forced to live as minorities and that is what led to all the persecution that has taken place in the past. to the Jews Israel is more than a country.

What about every other small religion? Do they deserve their own countries? Judaism is no more special than any other religion that is a minority in the Middle Eastern countries.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
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Khan
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piercehawkeye45
May 3 2007, 08:45 PM
Quote:
 
If the Jews lose Israel then they're are no more Jewish countries left and they will all be forced to live as minorities and that is what led to all the persecution that has taken place in the past. to the Jews Israel is more than a country.

What about every other small religion? Do they deserve their own countries? Judaism is no more special than any other religion that is a minority in the Middle Eastern countries.

I think Brutus may be right here. Jews aren't only a religion, but also a nation. Their religion is traditionally national. I know of only Khazar turks converting to judaism in a few centuries A.D.
Wine in hand, in the other, Quran,
Both halal I do and haram,
In this incomplete world of a sham,
Neither Pagan I am, nor Musselman!


Omar Khayyam

Come, come, whoever you are,
Wanderer, idolater, worshipper of fire,
Come even though you have broken your vows a thousand times,
Come, and come yet again.
Ours is not a caravan of despair


Mevlana Jalaladdin Rumi
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Brutus
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also the fact that alot of American politicians are jewish means they can use their influence in america to help their friends in Israel. and israel is pro-western and their are also lots of other reasons.


and the palestinians are not living as minorities on the border of what they once called home, just about all of them dispersed into neighboring countries and Palestinians in a different country of the middle east do not face racism and persecution while if the jews were forced to leave they would.

if you are that Israel could stand up on its own to all the countries that wish to destroy it then you are completely and dead wrong, Saudi Arabia alone could and probably would destroy israel without western interfierence.

Quote:
 
You've never heard of the one-state solution have you?

How about we don't label it a Jewish or a Muslim state and let both of them live there. That is only solution that makes sense.


i and lots of other people have also thought of that, it wouldn't work , neither side is willing to accept that either because they want the land and they don't want to share it and it doesn't make sense, its very problematic because of all the turmoil it would cause within Israel and this could even lead to civil war.


the fact of the matter is that one side has to get it and neither is willing to accept a compromise, now can you all honestly say that you would replace a wealthy, pro-western country that has a high per-capita GDP and HDI with a anti-western Terrorist state?

the Jews owning that land is the lesser of two evils and their is no other suitable option.
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Katastrof
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Brutus
May 3 2007, 09:10 PM
also the fact that alot of American politicians are jewish means they can use their influence in america to help their friends in Israel. and israel is pro-western and their are also lots of other reasons.


and the palestinians are not living as minorities on the border of what they once called home, just about all of them dispersed into neighboring countries and Palestinians in a different country of the middle east do not face racism and persecution while if the jews were forced to leave they would.

if you are that Israel could stand up on its own to all the countries that wish to destroy it then you are completely and dead wrong, Saudi Arabia alone could and probably would destroy israel without western interfierence.

Quote:
 
You've never heard of the one-state solution have you?

How about we don't label it a Jewish or a Muslim state and let both of them live there. That is only solution that makes sense.


i and lots of other people have also thought of that, it wouldn't work , neither side is willing to accept that either because they want the land and they don't want to share it and it doesn't make sense, its very problematic because of all the turmoil it would cause within Israel and this could even lead to civil war.


the fact of the matter is that one side has to get it and neither is willing to accept a compromise, now can you all honestly say that you would replace a wealthy, pro-western country that has a high per-capita GDP and HDI with a anti-western Terrorist state?

the Jews owning that land is the lesser of two evils and their is no other suitable option.

Okay the simpliest thing to do is what pierce said. Stop whining about who's religon is better and just make it a secular state? That would solve all the problems right there. Well not really but it would help put out one fire for now....
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"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero"(Seize the day put no trust in tomorrow)
~ Horace
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Brutus
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it is impossible to create a secular state out of Israel, a country is as religious as its people and both Israelis and palestinians are very religious.
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Khan
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Brutus
May 3 2007, 09:24 PM
it is impossible to create a secular state out of Israel, a country is as religious as its people and both Israelis and palestinians are very religious.

Thus, it is always the religion.

*gives up with a sigh*

Mohammad and Jesus are probably turning in their graves.

EDIT: Saudis depend on Western trade. Don't worry, they'd never manage to raise a hand to you.

Quote:
 
now can you all honestly say that you would replace a wealthy, pro-western country that has a high per-capita GDP and HDI with a anti-western Terrorist state?


This is why the Middle Eastern needs desperately an alternative. And secularism. We can pioneer it, but our government is also under threat by fundies, fundies who vouche for Al-Qadi.
Wine in hand, in the other, Quran,
Both halal I do and haram,
In this incomplete world of a sham,
Neither Pagan I am, nor Musselman!


Omar Khayyam

Come, come, whoever you are,
Wanderer, idolater, worshipper of fire,
Come even though you have broken your vows a thousand times,
Come, and come yet again.
Ours is not a caravan of despair


Mevlana Jalaladdin Rumi
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piercehawkeye45
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It is called a bi-national state and then you ease into the one-state.

Let me get this straigtht.

You the we have two choices, either to give it all to Palestine or give it all to Isreal. Then you say that the Jews will never allow it going to Palestine and the Middle East would never allow it to go to Israel.

I say a one-state solution. You say neither side will accept it and then throw it out. How is that any more invalid then what your choices are?


To solve this problem you need the UN to come in set up a bi-national state, one side Isreal and one side Palestine. They will be the same country but still have different governments. Then you slowly ease the integration of the two states.

Right now Palestinians are living in Isreal and Jews are living in Palestine. It can work.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
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sabertooth
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Khan
May 1 2007, 07:45 PM
...propel their silly little apocalyptic bullshit in motion.

Some times I just love this guy.

Anyways, getting Israel is just the beginning my Brutus. To fully propel there silly apocalyptic bullshit into motion they need to create greater Israel, which is, as the bible the Talmud and the Torah says.

Here is the exact quote from the bible

On that day, God made a covenant with Abram, saying: "To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt as far as the great river the Euphrates. The land of the Kenites, Kenizites, Kadmonites; the Chitties, Perizites, Refaim; the Emorites, Canaanites, Gigashites and Yevusites." - Genesis 15:18-21

And on a map that would look something like this


Posted Image


The red represents Israel’s current borders.
The orange represents what moderate Jews are saying
The yellow represents what it says in the bible, Talmud and Torah

The second and far more deadly thing they need to do is destroy the Al Aqsa mosque (which is standing on part of the ground where the temple of Solomon was) and build there third temple of Solomon so they could fully propel their silly little apocalyptic bullshit in motion.

Lol, you don’t need religion to see why that’s going to bring on an apocalypse.
Love and trust in one another,
never fear that we might fall.
Because God gave us friends,
not a mountain after all.

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BohemianG
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sabertooth
May 4 2007, 12:02 AM
Posted Image


The red represents Israel’s current borders.
The orange represents what moderate Jews are saying
The yellow represents what it says in the bible, Talmud and Torah

The second and far more deadly thing they need to do is destroy the Al Aqsa mosque (which is standing on part of the ground where the temple of Solomon was) and build there third temple of Solomon so they could fully propel their silly little apocalyptic bullshit in motion.

Lol, you don’t need religion to see why that’s going to bring on an apocalypse.

I've heard about the temple thing before (it was on a TV programme starring Tony Robinson no less). As for the image: holy crap! I've never realised QUITE how radical the apocalyptic-bullshite plan was before now.
Mister 'Balls' Sinister
 
Normandy took more balls than Vietnam, it took more balls than Korea, it took more balls than facing mustard gas on a battlefield full of giant ditches with nowhere to run. It took more balls than the world will ever be able to ante up again.
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严加华
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Anybody questioning why I call Abrahamic religions evil now?
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