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Creating the perfect country; worth it?
Topic Started: May 3 2007, 09:22 PM (1,923 Views)
Killer Bee
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America is not the only country you canget oil from, yes it was a disaster when America stopped selling them oil but it wouldn't have caused their country to collapse. Another Thing your forgetting is that Japan had conquered Indonesia, Indonesia is an Opec Nation that is very rich in oil, the only trouble was it had very few oil stations or pumps built up which meant that japanese would have had to start building their own.


Whatever, dude. It's called history, do some research. I don't have the time or patience to post more links with PROOF or argue that this was the case. If you want to believe that Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because of some ambition to conquor America, go right ahead.....as wrong as it is, it's your world. Just remember what the Japenese navy admiral said on the bridge of his ship......"We may have just awoken a sleeping giant". Doesn't sound like a nation that was hellbent on a future war because it wanted to dominate, does it?

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claiming that japan relied on America for its very SURVIVAL is like saying that Italy was completely reliant on Britain for its very survival because Italy was powered by coal and it bought all of its coal from Britain.


Not really, Brutus. It's called HISTORY, just not "history according to Brutus". You claim that history is something you "specialize" in or that you've done "indepth research" on. Go back and review your notes on pre WWII Japan.....and why they attcked Pearl Harbor. Seriously, don't take my word for it.....Japan will even admit to it, but look for yourself.

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Debaser
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Planning World Domination
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Honestly. Someone makes a factual error, it's pounced on, and is torn to shreds. To hell with peace , eh?
To hell with that.
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piercehawkeye45
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Franklin Pierce
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Bee, the Japanese were looking to go to war with America. They were itching to get in and had a choice between Russia and America. Russia at the time was getting pounded by Germany and all the top Japanese military officals, especially the navy, wanted a war with America to test out their new weapons. Oil had a big influence in this as well.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
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Brutus
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Quote:
 
"We may have just awoken a sleeping giant". Doesn't sound like a nation that was hellbent on a future war because it wanted to dominate, does it?



i am sick of hearing that Quote, and all it says is that he doubted japans ability to win the war, nothing else. thats a mistake historians are taught not to make by the way, don't try and get too much info from too little evidence.

and Japan did NOT need to attack America in order to survive, they had already conquered Indonesia, which is currently an OPEC nation, so while it was a problem that america put sanctions on Japan is did not mean they had to go to war with america, it was an excuse.

and even if it was neccesary, its shown that it was just an excuse by japans actions, you don't try to get someone to lower sanctions by trying to destroy their entire pacific fleet.

Japan's army didn't listen to the Government, they did whatever they wanted and they wanted to invade America, even though the government didn't want to conquer america, the army would have tried it anyway
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Killer Bee
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i am sick of hearing that Quote, and all it says is that he doubted japans ability to win the war, nothing else. thats a mistake historians are taught not to make by the way, don't try and get too much info from too little evidence.


If you're so "sick" of hearing this quote, go carry on a pissing contest with someone who you can convince of your horseshit. I'm sick of carrying on a debate with someone who obviously doesn't know history. Also, as far as that quote goes, it's called HISTORY. But, since it doesn't coincide with YOUR version of history, you piss and moan about it. And further more, don't tell me about what a historian does or doesn't do. Maybe you should do something that a historian does, you know, learn history.

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and Japan did NOT need to attack America in order to survive, they had already conquered Indonesia, which is currently an OPEC nation, so while it was a problem that america put sanctions on Japan is did not mean they had to go to war with america, it was an excuse.


No matter how much you try and deny the fact, you aren't able to re-write history to fit your delusional bullshit agenda. Get over it.....it's the way it happened. Don't read up on it or anything, just keep adding your false input to the mix.

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and even if it was neccesary, its shown that it was just an excuse by japans actions, you don't try to get someone to lower sanctions by trying to destroy their entire pacific fleet. 


You amuse me.......I was wrong about you. Here, I thought I was debating someone who knew a thing or two about history, especially the WWII era. I was wrong. And you keep proving it.

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Japan's army didn't listen to the Government, they did whatever they wanted and they wanted to invade America, even though the government didn't want to conquer america, the army would have tried it anyway


Again, you know nothing. To be honest, I'm done with you. When you go and learn something, come back and we'll continue. I want you to have at least a little credibility left here....

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Bee, the Japanese were looking to go to war with America. They were itching to get in and had a choice between Russia and America. Russia at the time was getting pounded by Germany and all the top Japanese military officals, especially the navy, wanted a war with America to test out their new weapons. Oil had a big influence in this as well.


Pierce, I never once they weren't looking to go to war with America. It was just out of necessity, not out of conquest. With a huge oil embargo on them, and no chance for diplomacy, what other choice could they have made? It was a do or die situitation.
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BohemianG
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Come on Bee, I disagree with a lot of what Brutus has said, but there's no need to start this slanging match.
Mister 'Balls' Sinister
 
Normandy took more balls than Vietnam, it took more balls than Korea, it took more balls than facing mustard gas on a battlefield full of giant ditches with nowhere to run. It took more balls than the world will ever be able to ante up again.
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Killer Bee
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BohemianG
May 14 2007, 01:50 PM
Come on Bee, I disagree with a lot of what Brutus has said, but there's no need to start this slanging match.

I was brutal. And to Brutus, my apologies. I guess we just have to agree to disagree. You're right Bohemian, no need to start a flame war here.
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gay
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Earth Ending Impacter
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Brutus
May 9 2007, 07:57 PM
When war broke out the british empire was the largest the world had ever seen and it ruled over 1/4 of the world's population. This was when the empire was at it's very peak in power and influence and to protect its collosal over seas empire Britain had made the Largest and most powerful Navy on the Planet and its Airforce was second only to the Germans.

huh...I thought the mongolians had the largest empire the world had ever seen

back on topic:

To create the perfect country you'd have to elimate virtually all forms of non-educational entertainment (for example RPG games and illegal drugs), and then you can brainwash everyone, creating complete and utter trust in you without question, THEN you can have a fighting force that can conquer the entire world. It would help to move your followers into all sections of your opponent's society, of course, infiltration is often the best way to destroy another's country.
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BohemianG
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gay
May 14 2007, 05:26 PM
To create the perfect country you'd have to elimate virtually all forms of non-educational entertainment (for example RPG games and illegal drugs), and then you can brainwash everyone, creating complete and utter trust in you without question, THEN you can have a fighting force that can conquer the entire world.

See, this brings up the question once again - would the perfect country REALLY be the one with Hitler-wet-dream-esque levels of compliance among its populace, mass brainwashing and the elimination of the weak? Or would it simply be one where, you know, everyone got along? Not that THAT'S ever going to happen.
Mister 'Balls' Sinister
 
Normandy took more balls than Vietnam, it took more balls than Korea, it took more balls than facing mustard gas on a battlefield full of giant ditches with nowhere to run. It took more balls than the world will ever be able to ante up again.
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Katastrof
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gay
May 14 2007, 04:26 PM
Brutus
May 9 2007, 07:57 PM
When war broke out the british empire was the largest the world had ever seen and it ruled over 1/4 of the world's population. This was when the empire was at it's very peak in power and influence and to protect its collosal over seas empire Britain had made the Largest and most powerful Navy on the Planet and its Airforce was second only to the Germans.

huh...I thought the mongolians had the largest empire the world had ever seen

back on topic:

To create the perfect country you'd have to elimate virtually all forms of non-educational entertainment (for example RPG games and illegal drugs), and then you can brainwash everyone, creating complete and utter trust in you without question, THEN you can have a fighting force that can conquer the entire world. It would help to move your followers into all sections of your opponent's society, of course, infiltration is often the best way to destroy another's country.

Why not just use RPGs and drugs? You give'em the addictions and you force them to pay favours for you Godfather style...I mean if you control the supply of what the population wants, you control the population...
Posted Image

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero"(Seize the day put no trust in tomorrow)
~ Horace
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严加华
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The term you're looking for, Katastrof, is "water empire".
LC Sez: Posted Image
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Khan
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HAVE YOU HEARD OF THIS SWEET WEBSITE CALLED FOUR CHAN DOT ORG?
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I thought of that too. Invent the least harmful, most psychiologically addictive item/thing/dildo/drug which doesn't consume much time when using, and makes many types of people from different social classes to come together while using it, whether they want to or not.

*Ethnic clashes solved.
*Racism solved.
*No one to rebel if you can keep monopoly on supply
*Everyone happy

Just keep unemployment and hunger down.
Wine in hand, in the other, Quran,
Both halal I do and haram,
In this incomplete world of a sham,
Neither Pagan I am, nor Musselman!


Omar Khayyam

Come, come, whoever you are,
Wanderer, idolater, worshipper of fire,
Come even though you have broken your vows a thousand times,
Come, and come yet again.
Ours is not a caravan of despair


Mevlana Jalaladdin Rumi
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Debaser
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Thats probably the closest to perfect we're likely to get.
To hell with that.
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Khan
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HAVE YOU HEARD OF THIS SWEET WEBSITE CALLED FOUR CHAN DOT ORG?
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Hmm, soma drug and group sex in Brave New World seems to be the answer.

I found it without reading it. Is this Huxley dude still alive? I need to talk to him.
Wine in hand, in the other, Quran,
Both halal I do and haram,
In this incomplete world of a sham,
Neither Pagan I am, nor Musselman!


Omar Khayyam

Come, come, whoever you are,
Wanderer, idolater, worshipper of fire,
Come even though you have broken your vows a thousand times,
Come, and come yet again.
Ours is not a caravan of despair


Mevlana Jalaladdin Rumi
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BohemianG
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Khan
May 15 2007, 09:29 AM
Hmm, soma drug and group sex in Brave New World seems to be the answer.

I found it without reading it. Is this Huxley dude still alive? I need to talk to him.

I think Aldous Huxley is quite dead. Brave New World was a satire as much as it was a look at the future, and the world contained therein is an ironic utopia. The majority of people in the world (those not living on 'savage' reservations) live in relative bliss, brainwashed from birth and in some cases outright engineered to fit into a certain social caste (some babies are denied oxygen to their brains for a time, for example, to make them idiots). Sexual freedom has reached a whole new level of ridiculousness, with romance and relationships pretty much eliminated.

The relative contentedness of the population has come at the cost of pretty much ALL wider knowledge, philosophy and art, including knowledge of history (they worship Henry Ford as god, and he said "History is bunk"). Only those in the highest echelons of power have access to things like the works of Shakespeare - they and, of course, the 'savages'. Don't know about you, but I think Brave New World is nightmarish, and I suspect that's the way Huxley intended it to be.

It's still a great book and one that I'd recommend to anyone, in particular as a counterpart to 1984.
Mister 'Balls' Sinister
 
Normandy took more balls than Vietnam, it took more balls than Korea, it took more balls than facing mustard gas on a battlefield full of giant ditches with nowhere to run. It took more balls than the world will ever be able to ante up again.
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