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Is atheism a religion?; A question of semantics.
Topic Started: May 26 2007, 11:37 AM (980 Views)
Duncan
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Okay, this question has been bugging me a little, so I wanted to know your take on it.

Is atheism a religion?

The argument I heard was along the lines of "If atheism is a religion, then bald in a hair color." However, I've noticed this community's uncanny ability to point out things I've missed in arguments. So please, tell me if atheism counts as religion.
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Flamingo
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I don't think so. It's more of a group of people that follow the same idea, which may sound like a religon, but a religon usually has some spiritual or religous element involved. Atheism is the polar opposite. If Atheist are against religon, I don't think they want to be considered one.
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严加华
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Atheism can be a religion (although when it reaches this extent it verges on eutheism). Basically I put the hyper-rabid "children should be removed from religious households because raising a child with religion is child abuse" atheist crowd in this camp. They are "fundamentalist atheists" and are typically damaged individuals (often damaged by religion) using atheism as an excuse for hatred.

Most atheists, however, are the (relatively) quiet kind who simply do not believe. Calling these people "religious" is stupid.

Incidentally, not all religious people are "spiritual" (whatever that word is supposed to mean). I've met lots of people in my life who go to church because it's how they build social networks for their businesses or reasons along those lines. I've met several, too, who just find the rituals comforting while not believing a word spoken. So while some atheists can be considered religiously so, some (perhaps even most?) religious people treat their religion as essentially a social club. (I find it particularly funny when self-professed Christians go shopping for a church that preaches the message they want to hear. To me I think they miss the entire point of "faith".)
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Debaser
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Yes. As being inferred in a different topic, religion is a distinct entity from faith. It's a belief (or lack thereof) shared by a group of people. As there's a lot of atheiests, I'd say they qualify.
To hell with that.
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gay
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Atheism is a belief in the nonexistance of God, just like religion is a belief in the existance of one (or more), therefore it cannot be classed as a religion. People think it is, because there are so many subclasses of religion that most beliefs become entangled within it, like Buddhism, which has no God and therefore shouldn't be classed as a religion.
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BohemianG
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严加华
May 26 2007, 12:45 PM
Atheism can be a religion (although when it reaches this extent it verges on eutheism). Basically I put the hyper-rabid "children should be removed from religious households because raising a child with religion is child abuse" atheist crowd in this camp. They are "fundamentalist atheists" and are typically damaged individuals (often damaged by religion) using atheism as an excuse for hatred.

Most atheists, however, are the (relatively) quiet kind who simply do not believe. Calling these people "religious" is stupid.

I agree with this man. AGAIN.

Damn him for preventing me from saying anything original. Without lying.
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Khan
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IF Atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Wine in hand, in the other, Quran,
Both halal I do and haram,
In this incomplete world of a sham,
Neither Pagan I am, nor Musselman!


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Wanderer, idolater, worshipper of fire,
Come even though you have broken your vows a thousand times,
Come, and come yet again.
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NeoAegis
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Khan
May 30 2007, 02:41 AM
IF Atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

If you're so fervent in your goal to not have any stamps, then sure, why not.
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koala
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严加华
May 26 2007, 11:45 AM
Atheism can be a religion (although when it reaches this extent it verges on eutheism). Basically I put the hyper-rabid "children should be removed from religious households because raising a child with religion is child abuse" atheist crowd in this camp. They are "fundamentalist atheists" and are typically damaged individuals (often damaged by religion) using atheism as an excuse for hatred.

Most atheists, however, are the (relatively) quiet kind who simply do not believe. Calling these people "religious" is stupid.

Incidentally, not all religious people are "spiritual" (whatever that word is supposed to mean). I've met lots of people in my life who go to church because it's how they build social networks for their businesses or reasons along those lines. I've met several, too, who just find the rituals comforting while not believing a word spoken. So while some atheists can be considered religiously so, some (perhaps even most?) religious people treat their religion as essentially a social club. (I find it particularly funny when self-professed Christians go shopping for a church that preaches the message they want to hear. To me I think they miss the entire point of "faith".)

from now on I'm calling you mike. What do you classify yourself as mike ? atheist? agnostic? christian etc.
A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. You think when Jesus comes back he ever wants to see a fucking cross? It's like going up to Jackie Onassis wearing a rifle pendant.
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严加华
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I'm an atheist. Of the non-religious variety.
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Debaser
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gay
May 26 2007, 12:21 PM
Atheism is a belief in the nonexistance of God, just like religion is a belief in the existance of one (or more), therefore it cannot be classed as a religion. People think it is, because there are so many subclasses of religion that most beliefs become entangled within it, like Buddhism, which has no God and therefore shouldn't be classed as a religion.

Where to begin?
1. Atheism is a belief in the lack of a god, agreed. However, religion is purely the belief of the individual about the existence of a supernatural deity. Atheism is still the belief of a god, but in their case, it's the lack of a belief in any god. It's still a belief about a supernatural entity. Whether they believe in a god is secondary
2. Buddhism IS a religion. Just because it differs from your common perception of a religion does NOT make it not a religion.
And Khan, do you actively pursue NOT collecting stamps? Do you go out of your way to avoid post offices and newsagents? Then it isn't a hobby.
To hell with that.
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严加华
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May 30 2007, 04:32 PM
1. Atheism is a belief in the lack of a god, agreed.


Wrong. Atheism can also be a lack of belief in a god (and this is the most common situation). There is a huge difference between the two positions.

Quote:
 
However, religion is purely the belief of the individual about the existence of a supernatural deity. Atheism is still the belief of a god, but in their case, it's the lack of a belief in any god. It's still a belief about a supernatural entity. Whether they believe in a god is secondary


This ... this just doesn't make any sense at all. Not only is the premise concerning atheism whacked to begin with, the definition of "religion" is whacked and the logical chain is broken.

I like the analogy made earlier. My religion is atheism just like my hobby is not collecting stamps.

Quote:
 
2. Buddhism IS a religion. Just because it differs from your common perception of a religion does NOT make it not a religion.


This is correct. Just because it's not as evil as Abrahamic faiths doesn't make it something other than a religion.

Quote:
 
And Khan, do you actively pursue NOT collecting stamps? Do you go out of your way to avoid post offices and newsagents? Then it isn't a hobby.

So you're saying atheism isn't (necessarily) a religion then. Good. You're finally getting it.
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gay
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May 30 2007, 08:32 AM
2. Buddhism IS a religion. Just because it differs from your common perception of a religion does NOT make it not a religion.

Wait- hang on a minute, lemme get this straight.

Buddhism is a religion because I think it isn't?
ok..
This sentence is a lie.

no, clearly, that doesn't make any sense whatsoever, you failed to provide a reason for buddhism being a religion in your answer, just skipping to attack mine.

Oh, and here's MY reason why buddhism isn't a religion:
a religion is defined as:
Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

and in Buddhism, there IS no supernatural power regarded as creator of the universe.

therefore Buddhism isn't a religion.

However, if you define religion as:
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

and in Buddhism, there are lots of rules and even books about the life and teachings of the Buddha,

therefore Buddhism IS a religion.

However, by comparing Buddhism with lots of other religions, we can clearly see one huge difference: there is no creator.

therefore, we could say that Buddhism is a way of life, a philosophy, a psychology, a way of thinking, through which we may ourselves take on the responsibility of determining how our life-bearing kamma (karma) will work out for us.

The reasoning in an argument is more important than the conclusion one may deduce, however flawed it may be, since it is from the reasoning that we may see where your point is coming from.
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Mister Sinister
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First off religion has several different definitions. Using one that is made up to suit your purpose is well...it's just plain wrong.

As our good friend Webster defines it:

re·li·gion
–noun 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion. [/b]
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom9. get religion, Informal. a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b. to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.


The definition of religion has nothing and I mean absolutely NOTHING to do with a Universal Creator.
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koala
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gay
May 30 2007, 11:07 AM
Debaser
May 30 2007, 08:32 AM
2. Buddhism IS a religion. Just because it differs from your common perception of a religion does NOT make it not a religion.

Wait- hang on a minute, lemme get this straight.

Buddhism is a religion because I think it isn't?
ok..
This sentence is a lie.

no, clearly, that doesn't make any sense whatsoever, you failed to provide a reason for buddhism being a religion in your answer, just skipping to attack mine.

Oh, and here's MY reason why buddhism isn't a religion:
a religion is defined as:
Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

and in Buddhism, there IS no supernatural power regarded as creator of the universe.

therefore Buddhism isn't a religion.

However, if you define religion as:
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

and in Buddhism, there are lots of rules and even books about the life and teachings of the Buddha,

therefore Buddhism IS a religion.

However, by comparing Buddhism with lots of other religions, we can clearly see one huge difference: there is no creator.

therefore, we could say that Buddhism is a way of life, a philosophy, a psychology, a way of thinking, through which we may ourselves take on the responsibility of determining how our life-bearing kamma (karma) will work out for us.

The reasoning in an argument is more important than the conclusion one may deduce, however flawed it may be, since it is from the reasoning that we may see where your point is coming from.

It's ok I changed the rules. I changed the definition. If you have a group of people together worshiping something, then you're a religion. All is good again. :D
A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. You think when Jesus comes back he ever wants to see a fucking cross? It's like going up to Jackie Onassis wearing a rifle pendant.
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