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Time Paradox; What if we created ourselves?
Topic Started: Nov 2 2007, 05:08 PM (4,550 Views)
Katastrof
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Dec 7 2007, 07:14 PM
Katastrof
Dec 6 2007, 08:37 PM
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Dec 6 2007, 07:57 PM
no wait, if time cannot be calculated, all those mathematical equations are useless then?

No you misunderstood what I meant. Time itself cannot be calculated. There is no formula for time nor is there a set definition or real idea. It's abstract, we perceive it, but it doesn't really exist. That being said, yes, time is used for many equations.

so what is it that we're "really" trying to calculate through the equations then?

I don't get what you're saying. I said time is not real. It's abstract. What equations are you talking about?
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gay
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like, say,

time = distance travelled/speed
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Dizzarth Stumpy
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Dec 8 2007, 02:29 PM
like, say,

time = distance travelled/speed

that is time as it is perceived by the observer/object/what have you, not time as an abstract concept.
STUMPY WAS RIGHT. HIS TOUCHING SOLILOQUY HAS MOVED ME, TRULY A MANIPULATOR OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. I HAVE ALLOWED HIM USAGE OF HIS PREVIOUS ACCOUNT.
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Magical Gelatin
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Dizzarth Stumpy
Dec 8 2007, 08:18 PM
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Dec 8 2007, 02:29 PM
like, say,

time = distance travelled/speed

that is time as it is perceived by the observer/object/what have you, not time as an abstract concept.

But speed is measured in "miles/hour" (or whatever distances unit you want), that constitutes time right there. So time is just a generalization.
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gay
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so what is that equation *really* calculating then?
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Magical Gelatin
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Dec 9 2007, 11:01 AM
so what is that equation *really* calculating then?

A figure based off of a derived concept of time that is nonexistent.
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Flamingo
 
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Dizzarth Stumpy
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Dec 9 2007, 08:01 AM
so what is that equation *really* calculating then?

like i said, PERCEIVED TIME. for example, say i watch a ball roll across the floor and it take 5 seconds. that means i PERCEIVED it as taking 5 seconds. when katastrof says time doesn't "exist" he's not talking about time in the same way that you are, he is talking about it as an abstract concept that cannot be applied to the basic physics equations you're thinkingt of.
STUMPY WAS RIGHT. HIS TOUCHING SOLILOQUY HAS MOVED ME, TRULY A MANIPULATOR OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. I HAVE ALLOWED HIM USAGE OF HIS PREVIOUS ACCOUNT.
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Katastrof
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Dec 9 2007, 03:01 PM
so what is that equation *really* calculating then?

What I'm trying to say here, is that time its self is an abstract concept that is perceived to be real because we feel that time flows around us but in reality there is no flow of time, just a decay of things. That's why time travel is impossible, because time isn't a dimension, its a state.

Entropy, or disorder in a system, is the thing we perceive as "time". As things age or change due to the entropy of that system, we conclude that time must have passed and therefore that time as a dimension exists.

For example, when I see a glass full of ice and then look back after 3 minutes I see that the ice has melted, therefore I perceive time has passed because I observed the ice melting. However this conclusion is inaccurate since that act of melting ice is QH= lf*m and time is never in the equation. This means that the time I perceived that passed and which I thought made the ice melt was just the entropy of the system increasing. This means that time isn't a dimension but the perception of entropy of various systems increasing or staying the same.

Now why would this make time travel impossible? Well if time isn't a dimension but a state that means it can't be a place you can travel to. Since we can conclude that time is perceived entropy of a system(s), that means time isn't a dimension but a the flow of entropy of a system(s). Since entropy only increases or stays the same, that means we can't decrease the entropy (chaos) of a system. Since we can't do this since entropy is the perceived flow of time and since you can't decrease entropy (due to the Second Law of Thermodynamics), therefore you cannot travel back in time. (Though in theory you could travel forward in time by increasing the entropy of all systems...)

SO to answer your question, speed. Speed is the answer to that equation.
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BohemianG
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Katastrof
Dec 10 2007, 03:44 AM
That's why time travel is impossible, because time isn't a dimension, its a state.

And that's what I meant to say in the first place. I just phrased it a quite horrifically incorrect manner. Never mind though...
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oh. I though you meant time as in the measurement of how much something has happened.
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Killer Bee
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Dec 11 2007, 05:15 PM
oh. I though you meant time as in the measurement of how much something has happened.

We created that measurement, it's not something that is physically real. We created seconds, minutes....days and so on.
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Ian
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If time travel was to be real though, nobody should be allowed to do it. Anybody that goes back in time is going to change the furture, even if there just standing there doing nothing, or just walking around, for example, say a guy travels back in time. He's minding his own business walking on the streets, when suddenly a kid gets hit by a car. The kid was walking down the street aswell, and they passed eachother even though the kid was supposed go straight, instead the kid goes left and gets hit by a car, the parnets cry, create mass murder, more people are affected, etc.

I saw this cartoon awhile back when these guys traveled ack into the prehistoric age, and where just observeing when one of them kills a fly because it was annoying him. They go back to the furture and it turns out flys rule the world and there the most advanced species, all because a tiny event. I can't remember the show but I know eventually they go back in time to try to stop themselfs and it some how repeats over and over.
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gay
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Killer Bee
Dec 11 2007, 08:24 PM
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Dec 11 2007, 05:15 PM
oh. I though you meant time as in the measurement of how much something has happened.

We created that measurement, it's not something that is physically real. We created seconds, minutes....days and so on.

well it's obviously not physically real, it's just that everything relates to time therefore even if we can't physically feel it, it can still affect us i.e gravity causes time to slow down to the outside observer while the person affected by gravity will see time speeding up.

Obviously time isn't physically real but we can calculate it, with equations.
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Killer Bee
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Dec 12 2007, 05:01 PM
Killer Bee
Dec 11 2007, 08:24 PM
gay
Dec 11 2007, 05:15 PM
oh. I though you meant time as in the measurement of how much something has happened.

We created that measurement, it's not something that is physically real. We created seconds, minutes....days and so on.

well it's obviously not physically real, it's just that everything relates to time therefore even if we can't physically feel it, it can still affect us i.e gravity causes time to slow down to the outside observer while the person affected by gravity will see time speeding up.

Obviously time isn't physically real but we can calculate it, with equations.

But, the measurement of time itself isn't something that's "real". As far as physical laws of the universe go, minutes, hours, days have absolutley no meaning. The equations you speak of were made to calculate units we created.
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Lyncanthro
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True, so in essence, one minute is the same as one day, is the same as one month, is the same as one year, and so forth
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