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Mad Men
Topic Started: Jan 25 2013, 11:26 AM (11,116 Views)
Mariah
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Thanks ccc, I'll read it after I finish that really long one.

Peggy's only ever had one boss, and that is Don. I think she's just using what she knows, Don's style, because that is her experience of bosses, and she admired him as well. I didn't think it was a gender thing, she's responsible for their work now, and back when Don was responsible for hers, that style did work for both of them.

She doesn't really have any female boss role models, none of us did back then really. I think her new boss opened her eyes a bit though, and she's very smart, so she will probably adjust and find her own way.

ETA
ccc, I'm really sad that you hadn't watched yet and I spoiled the (to me) shocking relationship Don was in. That is a good one to see for yourself. It hit me in the gut, very sad that he betrayed such a good man.

I mean, the only logical thing is to post after it airs, and I know you weren't pissed at me for posting, but still, I wish you had seen that for yourself.
Edited by Mariah, Apr 8 2013, 05:36 PM.
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cccharley
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No biggie~ Hope you love that blog. It's pretty much the only one I read for MM. It gets tons of comments too. I miss those guys - I never read any of there other stuff. I just wait for the MM which seems like forever.

I guess I just didn't like Peggy barking for coffee from her secretary being she was one at one time and now she's turning into one of "them".
Edited by cccharley, Apr 8 2013, 05:44 PM.
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Mariah
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I read it, and it was good! I so agree with him about Betty.

I think Peggy will evolve, but back then, male or female, most bosses were like that, Kings with minions. Some still are today. Expecting Peggy to be different than her boss, just because she's a female, so should be what? Softer, more considerate? In a very real way, that is part of the glass ceiling that still exists today. Women can't get away with shit, if they are too nice, they are too weak to lead. A man is "assertive and knows what he wants and gets it" but a woman, doing the same damn thing is "a bitch" or if she's more considerate she is unlikely to be respected. Not as much today, but in 1968? Oh hell yeah, there weren't many role models.

ETA, another interesting and thoughtful review here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen-ryan/mad-men-premiere-recap_b_3030286.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular,mad-men

I don't completely agree with the writer's opinion of Betty, but I get it. Betty fascinates me for many reasons, but the actress revealed herself on DVD commentary as really having almost no clue about anything deeper than the outfit she was wearing in a scene. Obtuse doesn't cover it, she really sounds completely dumb and unaware of basics. In a way, perhaps it was type casting though?
Edited by Mariah, Apr 8 2013, 07:04 PM.
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weaver
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I never read any of the blogs until I've watched the show and form my own opinion. The blogs get in my mental way. I watch on DVR and can FF through the commercials, which makes it more enjoyable.

I loved the show. I'm so curious as to where Weiner will take Don this year. He can't really have a redemption arc again, can he? And all the hints point to suicide, but that can't happen either, and I don't think its in Don's character anyway. He seems to have lost all will, not even really enjoying this affair.

As for Betty, I've never liked her character. I don't believe she would have let herself go physically as much as she has. And that outift she wore looking for the young girl was THE ELEGANT STYLE of dressing of the 60's. She would not have looked matronly, skirt hanging below coat (as I recall). The LES was NOT a bombed out neighborhood, it was a very poor Eastern European neighborhood. There was a lot of crime as you went east to the river. I've never been too interested in the arc of her character, so I don't much care where Weiner takes her.

John Slattery never fails to deliver, nor does the Pete character. I loved the scenes with Slattery's two exes and his greedy daughter.

I'm not looking forward to 1968 if Weiner chooses to spend a lot of time on MLK, RFK, the Tet offensive, etc., execpt as they peripherally affect the people at SCDP. I have a feeling the soldier whose lighter Don has will die in Tet.

I always like to read Maureen Ryan's take on shows. I think she used to be with Chicago Tribune, didn't she? Very good reviewer................and more importantly, I usually agree with her. :P
Edited by weaver, Apr 9 2013, 07:49 AM.
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cccharley
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still have finished but Weaver - it was the east village not the LES. They mentioned St. Marks Place. It was a mess down there. LES totally different.
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weaver
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I pretty much call East Village the LES. I know it was St. Marks Place. I lived at Ave C and 10th Street not long thereafter. Yeah, East Village. LES is below Houston, technically.
Edited by weaver, Apr 9 2013, 07:55 AM.
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cccharley
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I remember it really gross in the early 80s. I lived in the WV starting in 85 and there was a vast difference back then. Who knows? Wow you lived in the gentrified zone. Too bad you didn't buy up an entire block
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weaver
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If I knew then what I know now, I'd be a very rich person.

Look at the transformation of the Bowery!
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cccharley
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I know me too- sold a WV studio in 2000 - so stupid. It almost doubled and when I sold it was the highest ever in the building by a huge margin. So bummed. I could have lived there till at least 2007 with the husband and an infant. Oh well - can't do anything about it now. It was rare that anyone would live in a townhouse back then because of the lack of security.
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Mariah
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I watch the shows first too, for exactly that reason weaver. I haven't read many of the blogs before last night, but this premier made me want to see what others thought.

Agree about the soldier and TET. Good catch. They have SO much to work with, but having lived through it, I have to say it was a potent time.

1968 was an eventful year. These are some things that may be, at least background mood, mentions, possibly story drivers.

RFK was our hope, and was killed the year I started high school, it was devastating. I have an embarrassing dark rant I wrote in my first year book, about how hopeless and sad I was. Sally is almost exactly my age back then, and I wonder if she will react?

Yeah, there is a lot that happens that no one can ignore, and Mad Men will probably not devote a lot of time to the events, but they will have to address the way it impacts everyone.

Some stuff that might color things or show up, and I left out most of the international stuff, other than Viet Nam and the Olympics.

TET, then the US Embassy Attack later

Martin Luther King is murdered and the subsequent riots

Civil Rights Act is passed a signed by Johnson a few months later

Robert Kennedy murdered

The riots at the Democratic National Convention

That Viet Cong guy shot in the head photo, won the Pulitzer prize and was on TV all the time, Hell the war was on the TV all the time, in all of it's bloody, horrifying monstrosity.

Laugh In and 60 minutes begin, Hot Wheels are launched

Hair! debuts

Beatles release the White Album (includes the song Helter Skelter)

Madison Square Garden Opens (but that was mentioned last year)

Mai Lai, the one massacre that became known, though there were many.

College Sit Ins begin at Howard University over ROTC and other things

2001 A Space Odyssey

Manned Space Flight for the USA

In April Columbia University is taken over by student protesters and shut down.

There are a few more plane crashes with either lots of people on board, or the nukes.

Burning draft cards with Napalm begins in May

violent anti war protests in Mexico just before the Olympics, later the black athletes do the Black Power Salute on the Medal Stand.

Jacqueline Kennedy marries Onassis and leaves the USA

Quote:
 
October 31 – Vietnam War: Citing progress in the Paris peace talks, U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson announces to the nation that he has ordered a complete cessation of "all air, naval, and artillery bombardment of North Vietnam" effective November 1.
November 11
Vietnam War: Operation Commando Hunt is initiated to interdict men and supplies on the Ho Chi Minh Trail, through Laos into South Vietnam. By the end of the operation, 3 million tons of bombs are dropped on Laos, slowing but not seriously disrupting trail operations.


Nixon wins the election (and I cried most of the night)

Yale announces it will admit women.

Farmington Mine Disaster 78 die (could relate if they work for the company)

First interracial kiss on US TV, Captain Kirk kisses Uhura.

The Khmer Rouge is formed.

The Zodiac Killer starts his spree

The protest at the Miss America pageant.
Quote:
 
Women protest the Miss America pageant
Nearly 400 feminists gather in Atlantic City on Sept. 7 to protest the "ludicrous 'beauty' standards" of the Miss America pageant. The media dubs them "bra-burners," despite the fact that bras, along with "mops, girdles, pots and pans, and Playboy magazines," were thrown into trash cans, and not burned.


Quote:
 
New York City goes on strike
For nine days in 1968, New York City is filled with the smell of garbage as sanitation workers go on strike. Even more traumatic is the New York City teachers' strike, which puts kids out of school for 36 days and stirs up racial tensions between the city's black and Jewish communities.





Edited by Mariah, Apr 9 2013, 03:07 PM.
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weaver
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The other day I looked up 440 Riverside Drive, the first place I lived in after college. Then, all the apts had been broken up into units of five or six rooms, with people sharing a bathroom and kitchen. The building was pretty crummy, but I had a great view of Riverside Pk and the river from my very large room. It has a famous lobby, that I can't even remember.
Turns out it is a building by a very famous architect who built quite a bit up in that area. Now of course all the buildings have been restored and are expensive co-ops.

All I remember is walking down 116th street from the Broadway subway stop to Riverside Drive in the winter, it's a very steep downhill walk and because it is right on the river it was freezing.
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weaver
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Wow, Mariah, lots of major stuff in 1968! I guess they'll have to address a few of them anyway and how they affect the lives of the characters.

I'm more interested in Don and his downward tailspin. How can Weiner fill up 13 episodes with this stuff? Don and Roger are my faves.

I'm gonna watch it over, or at least a few scenes.

I was just looking up the snowstorm that did in Lindsay, but that was in February, 1969! Bodes ill for Henry's future.

Edited by weaver, Apr 9 2013, 01:50 PM.
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Mariah
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I'm going to go add in the protest at the Miss America pageant, because that was a VERY big deal back then, and I can see Betty watching that for sure.

It was such a volatile time and so many things changed. ROTC protests were everywhere, bras and draft cards were burned, lack of faith in the government, complete despair over Viet Nam and the lies, a couple of nuke and nerve gas accidents made things even scarier, Martin's death just as civil rights was finally gaining ground, women beginning to demand equal rights as well, and then the hope of many to turn things around, Bobby was killed. Maybe part of it was my age, things hit harder when you are young, but I still remember the FEEL of 1968, the hostility between the generations was massive. The young were protesting or dying in war, and the older people just could NOT understand the lack of patriotism and willingness to fight any war the government said was important. Mini skirts become huge too, and the Grateful Dead and Stones his their stride, the White Album is released, race relations were so scary and again, young and old often split on that issue. LOTS of arguing. Charles Mason moves his family into the "ranch" and several friends of mine had been to parties up there, the Tate murders aren't until 1969.

It's the MOOD of the country that they will probably address, it was dark, and angry, and sad, and desperate, and extremely divisive between the generations, races, and even sexes. The moments of hope were often dashed soon after. It's why I quoted the Johnson announcements. "We won't bomb Vietnam anymore" and then the next deay practically, all the bombs on Laos. the whole thing where returning soldiers were telling their friends one thing and the News and Gov told us all another. "We are NOT in Laos or Cambodia!" but the word got out that we were. The younger generation didn't trust them anymore, and the older generation was furious at the lack of patriotism of the young, causing disruptions in home, school, work, all of it.

Note, massive generalizations there, of course some young people believed in the USA and war, and some old people were horrified and informed. After all, All My Children was launched in Jan 1970, and the main storyline was Vietnam, and it wasn't favorable. I'm just trying to capture the feel of it all.

The whole 'DOMINO THEORY!' was a huge source of arguments at many dinner tables or in classes. We had to stop communism from hopping into Vietnam, and then to the Philippines, Australia, over to South America and right up to the USA! That was the "reason" for Vietnam back then. They had little maps that showed us how communism would take us over, we had them passed out in junior high!
Edited by Mariah, Apr 9 2013, 02:19 PM.
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discomom
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1968. I was 7 for most of that year, but I still remember so much of it vividly. That's the year when the shit hit the fan and it seemed like it kept on going until about 74 or 75. The other day was the anniversary of MLK's assassination. I still remember sitting in the living room with my dad and brother and hearing the news .
Like you, Mariah, that year really hit me. That summer seeing the reports coming in from Vietnam in living color, being scared that my older brothers were going to get drafted and get killed. There just seemed to be so much upheaval and discord, and my dad was pretty conservative, so he wasn't a happy camper. Especially when my brother and his friend ended up on said friends' motorcycle in the middle of a peace march staged by college students!.

But, I digress. All I have to say is:Don, really?
Edited by discomom, Apr 9 2013, 07:28 PM.
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Mariah
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Yeah, it's the end of the summer of love and the beginning of a lot of awful things.

This got me started on Manson today, first because I googled to see when the murders happened, knowing it was close to that year, and then I found all this stuff on You Tube. Recent interviews with most of them, Diane Sawyer really earning her pay putting up with the crazy misogynist nut case Manson insulting her, Larry King with the one who testified, Linda Kasabian. in disguise, and this 5 part series. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_qTTN225II

This show certainly sparks memories, up until know, some really funny like the laundry bag scene. This time, not so pleasant ones.
Edited by Mariah, Apr 9 2013, 11:30 PM.
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