Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Freshsnarkdaily. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Mad Men
Topic Started: Jan 25 2013, 11:26 AM (11,095 Views)
IcyAll
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Weaver, bravo -- I feel that way when Bob shows up, too -- whoever he is, he is taking time from the more important characters and I resent that, too. I'm also a bit resentful of style over substance. And I equate the sly double/triple layer story-telling with style --it's about "how many ways can I mind-fuck the audience and show how brilliant a thinker I am?" ... It's still entertainment, but it's entertainment more for the critics and awards than the "regular joes" ... *

Mariah, if '68 is being shown as women coming into power, then killing Megan is a wuss move. Shut up the one who is the most progressive simply to mimic real history with Manson?


*ETA: Which is how shows and writers survive in Hollywood, so the problem is in the system, no only in the writers' minds.
Edited by IcyAll, Jun 9 2013, 04:25 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mariah
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
She could just be dead from street violence. I think NYC crime was at one of it's highest rates EVER in '68. Or she may be alive.

I do think Manson will play in, but next year. One of those girls, either the runaway from the first episode where Betty tries to find her, or the daughter of the dead partner will hook up with Manson's group, as so many young people did. I doubt they will be involved with the murders, just there part of the group.

Icy, I didn't mean women coming into power. I meant women starting to DEMAND power, or be just as ruthless as men about TAKING it. As I said, '68 was all about divisions and just not taking it anymore. What Joan just did, I felt, illustrated that very well, and was completely believable for the character as well. Her discontent has been growing for episodes now. She reached her last straw and fought back. Ditto the war protesters, and the status quo people, everyone was fighting.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
IcyAll
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Having just read an account of the murders, it seems Mason instructed Tex to make sure the women participated. So there were less bystanders among them. Did any of them successfully claim to have killed no one? helped not at all?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mariah
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Icy, Manson didn't kill anyone. There was only one woman who was there that didn't kill anyone, she testified for the prosecution and didn't do time. Believe me, Tex didn't have to force the other women, he just came in when they were about to be overwhelmed by someone fighting for their lives.

There were dozens more back at the ranch or in other locations though, most of the group wasn't involved at all. Some knew, some suspected but didn't want to know. A couple figured it out and escaped.

ETA
All who were there except the one who testified for the prosecution are still in jail.

One man who was involved with the earlier murder got parole because he showed the cops where other bodies were buried. That release is pretty controversial. He's in a rock band now.
Edited by Mariah, Jun 9 2013, 04:32 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mariah
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Manson This is actually pretty comprehensive. It also has a ton of links to more information and videos, interviews, etc.

(I went on a Manson information binge earlier this year, read every single parole hearing, etc.)

This is the only one paroled:
Steve Grogan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_%22Clem%22_Grogan

This is the one who was there and supposedly didn't kill anyone, who testified for the prosecution and didn't go to jail. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Kasabian



Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mariah
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Well, aside from the Peggy scenes and Pete's mom, that was completely underwhelming.

Glad Sally saw her dad clearly for the first time though, not only an asshole, but he also lied to her. That should play out in the future.

So Bob's big secret is that he's gay? Y A W N
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
weaver
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Mariah
Jun 9 2013, 03:29 PM
I still think that Bob will be the new Don at the end. His name won't really be Bob at all.

weaver, I really don't understand, and I am so not being argumentative or mean here, I really want to understand what you mean by "just tell the story!" I so mean this and wish we were sitting in the same room or something so my tone of voice and face could convey that better. I can certainly understand just not caring for the episode. I am lost about the story comment, and will try to explain a bit below.

To me he really IS telling the story, and he did it so well here--everything broke in 1968 and divided, and nothing was ever the same again, all rolls changed--it was the start of a completely new, more jaded, more angry, more involved time. Advertising really was part of what was "out" or wrong with the world. People like Don no longer had that certain cache, they were OUT, the enemy really. California and the youth did move center stage. Just so much blew up--and for better or worse, everything changed.

I think he captured it SO well, and in an entertaining and light way. For example, Joan's story. Women quit being "Peggy" and just grateful to the men for letting them be involved in business. Joan just FOUGHT for that, no longer the man-pleasing hiding her light worker-bee, she stood up for and KEPT what was hers. At the end there, Peggy got it, but still pointed out Avon better call. At the Democratic Convention, people stopped BEGGING their reps to take about ending that war, which all of us believed the murdered Bobby would have demanded. They stood outside with picket signs and demanded it, and were beaten and tear-gassed. (etc, all stories told of the shifts and changes that really did begin to impact everyone, including the Mad Men characters) Things were violent and change demanded.

Maybe Don seeing himself dead in that pool was part of it too. Men like Don WERE "dead" now, in some ways. Formerly powerful and doing whatever the hell they wanted to, the coolest of the cool, envied by many, respected by almost all. His former safe haven of California turned into a mess.

Anyway, I'm not trying to ramble but to me, in fairly deft ways, with every character on screen, he was able to show so much of the shifts that really were happening in their worlds. Even Don's marriage showed huge changes. The little wifey wasn't going to blindly follow Don anywhere, stay home, cook, clean, and have his babies--she wanted MORE. Many women started to want more than just caring for husbands and kids and dishes, and for the first time ever, in masses, they could explore their talents or make their own money, get a job, RISE in that job (fighting every step of the way to do so, but it was at least possible.) Another of the divides/changes shown last episode.

A Tale of Two Cities was really about all the changes that solidified in 1968. "Us" vs "Them" in every way, every story, men/women, NY/LA, young/old, Hawks/Doves, Chaugh's group/Don's group at the office, on and on--shifts that force everyone into new stories. In real life and on the show.
I haven't watched last night's and probably won't until season is over. But what I mean by "tell the story" is that I think Weiner knocks us over the head with scenes that tell what is happening at the time rather than more subtly telling about those events through the characters. I guess it is the degree of subtlety I am complaining about. I thought all those California scenes last week were extraneous. OK we found out about how they dressed, and their drug parties and the "hills." This could have been done in other ways.

"All in the Family," while a sitcom, told you about events of the time without ever showing them. A poor example, but all I can come up with right now.

Maybe he is appealing to a younger audience who really don't know what happened in the 60's, 70's and have to be shown it literally to understand it. But he is losing me.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mariah
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Thanks. I understand it a bit more now.

;) To me, he really did tell the story through the characters, but I can see someone wanting them to stick to the office. I thought the California scenes fit, because of Don's connection with California. When he's been stressed or felling out before California always brought him back. This time? Not so much.

Last night's was pretty straightforward, and all in NY, not a hippy to be seen. I thought it was too simple, but it did set up possible good stuff.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mariah
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Reading some recaps, and apparently most reviewers liked the show. I'm still not that fond of last night's, but this is an interesting review.
http://www.vulture.com/2013/06/mad-men-recap-season-6-don-caught-by-sally-bob-gay.html

Here is Huff's, and she's right, Sally and Don are both going to be scarred for life, and both actors just nailed their scenes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen-ryan/mad-men-recap-favors_b_3413544.html?utm_hp_ref=mad-men

Kind of a rave here, and I get her point, there were a lot of great scenes last night, but it just felt disjointed to me. I really should have looked at the title. "Favors" does tie it all together, but to me, it remains a B- episode, if only because this show is usually so amazing.
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/10/mad_men_recap_steamy_relationships_real_and_imagined/

Then again, everyone sees different things, so for someone else this might have been one of the best.

Slate has 3 recappers, here is one of them (you can see the others by clicking on the names under the title) http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/tv_club/features/2013/mad_men_season_6/week_10/mad_men_favors_review_is_this_bob_benson_s_secret.html
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cccharley
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Just watched. Totally enjoyed it. Straightforward show to me just about family, relationships *family and friends) and discourse. It was sad but for Roger's juggling.
Edited by cccharley, Jun 11 2013, 07:16 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
IcyAll
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Did anyone else notice that the movie playing on TV when Don was pouring the drink and the doorbell rang starred Sharon Tate? Pretty sure that was her, side-ways.

So I wonder what those two fashion bloggers will say about Megan's red and black outfit which was sold by all the "Megan's dead" preachers as a signal that she was already dead, hence her appearance in Don's hallucination about death when he did, in fact die. (Pardon my convoluted sentence.) Maybe it was about the presence of death, as menacing Mitchell? Because later when she was waiting for Sally to shower and Julie was taking out the trash/delivering the letter, Megan was all in off-white. An angel? Geez, now I'm getting into it!

I agree with Maureen Ryan -- something about that scene with Bob and Pete just did not work. Saying he's a Zelig, who senses that Pete may be secretly gay, so he's trying to fulfill that wish, doesn't work ... Pete gives off NO gay vibes. Except, come to think of it, I've often wondered if the actor is gay in real life. What was that big brouhaha about with Kristin Chenoweth and Sean Hayes? When someone said he can never play a straight character convincingly and she replied that he sure could! (Except he can't.) ... Vincent is a great actor -- good enough that I've bought into Pete being straight. He's typical of men of the time in that he can't take women too seriously and I think some reviewers might be mistaking his treatment of women as meaning he might be gay, when in fact it's just a smart writer + a smart actor playing an accurate character motive.

No Joan.

I wonder if seeing her father fucking Sylvia will be motive for Sally to become promiscuous? Here's her mom thinking Jr. UN is just about making out with boys, and for Julie that does seem to be the case. But Sally, rattling off facts and figures in the back of the cab, seems to save her smarts for places where her mother is not. But will she throw all that aside and "give it up" to Mitchell before he takes off for pilot training? I doubt we'll see him again, simply because that actor will not cut his hair for a role. Not a small one like Mitchell Rosen.

When Don said "I have two sons ..." I thought "liar! he'll say anything!" ... then I realized, oh ... yeah. He does.

Some reviewer said that cat was too small to deal with NYC rats. Uh, actually no, and I hate when a writer writes something like that. Rats smell the cat and stay away -- they go to apartments without cats. And that was no kitten; that was a full grown adult cat. Smart Peggy. A cat's better than a boyfriend for her anyway.

I loved that the show brought up the child she had with Pete. Someone help me out -- the reviewers say "the child she gave up for adoption" ... um, didn't we see the child being taken care of by her sister? Isn't that kid somewhere in Brooklyn with the Olsons? Didn't she peek in on him when he was in his crib? so why are people assuming she gave him up? I mean, to strangers? I think he's being raised by his aunt, believing she is his mother. I feel bad for the kid, even if he is fictional. He's gotta be ... eight?

Is this show ending with this season? Is that what they're saying? So how many episodes are left? Some reviewer talked about wrapping it all up and it made me wonder. I'm ready for it to be over. Waaaaay too much analyzing and not enough focus.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cccharley
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
I don't think we ever got clarification on that adoption. At the time they said her sister may have been pregnant nearly the same time. I always thought it was her kid. It was confusing.

I'll go read some recaps

I still have it taped so I'll go check out the movie. I was eating and pausing to explain this to my dh -he can't see that well so I have fill him on which characters are on the screen. It takes us like 90 minutes to get thru an episode. Such is my life and it's a pain. Ruins the continuity.
Edited by cccharley, Jun 11 2013, 07:17 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
discomom
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
IcyAll
Jun 11 2013, 02:33 AM


Except, come to think of it, I've often wondered if the actor is gay in real life. What was that big brouhaha about with Kristin Chenoweth and Sean Hayes? When someone said he can never play a straight character convincingly and she replied that he sure could! (Except he can't.) ... Vincent is a great actor -- good enough that I've bought into Pete being straight.
Just saw Vincent Kartheiser on tv not long ago... he's engaged (to a woman). I've never read any gossip about him being gay. I think he's just a really good actor, since I've seen interviews of his castmates on Mad Men who all say he is the sweetest guy and nothing like Pete Campbell.

BTW, he's from Minneapolis and is heading back to the Guthrie to do Pride and Prejudice this summer. I may have to plan a trip back up there :P
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
WillyWonka
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
According to this, Matthew Weiner said the baby was put up for adoption and is not being raised by Peggy's sister. Her sister was pregnant and had her own baby around the same time.

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/10/mad-men-peggy-b.html

Maybe Peggy was looking in on her sister's child and thinking that her own would be about that same age, then wondering where it was at, etc.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
weaver
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Yeah, this always comes up. Peggy's baby was definitely put up for adoption.

Well I watched it in spite of myself and was wowed by it. One of my favorites of the season. I liked the way they brought in the "evading the draft" issue by doing it through characters we know.
I thought the whole Chaough/Don scene was excellent. Don didn't even realize that Chaough thought he was competing with him. Seems Don doesn't really care. It's consistent with Don sloughing off not having his name on the firm's new title. That puzzled me at the time. Don't really know what this means for Don in the long run though.

And I'm glad Sylvia/Dr Rosen are back, I love the actress. And Don doing her this great big favor, does he really love her, is it just guilt, a combination?

Guess Stan doesn't really care about Peggy any more.

I loved getting more background on Pete, feel I know him better. His mother doesn't even like him. As for Bob, who cares? Go away, Bob.

Haven't read any reviews, didn't want to taint my viewing.

I thought Jon Hamm knocked it out of the park this week.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Fully Featured & Customizable Free Forums
Learn More · Register Now
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · TV Drama · Next Topic »
Add Reply