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Mad Men
Topic Started: Jan 25 2013, 11:26 AM (11,086 Views)
Mariah
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Here is my take on that, which may be wrong.

Shoe business was going to drop for many reasons, most of them related to youth of the time (which was about to be the major market force, baby boomers, until quite recently, have been that key demographic from the mid sixties on.) So, Joan pointed out that they both knew business was going to drop, and that if he fired SC&P he would be blamed for it completely, even though that wouldn't be the major reason. She also learned from the college prof other marketing strategies to keep Butler shoes in business.

As for why? Some spit balling here:

1. The vocal youth was getting a lot of press and were "in" so even non-political teens/young adults identified with much of it, including the fashion, much of which was homemade, or old school (granny dresses, sandals, flip flops decorated with flowers, home made moccasins, very casual, and very NOT "establishment." People didn't go to "beauty parlors" anymore, they grew their hair long and ironed it if it wasn't straight enough. Etc.

2. Butler Shoes might have specialized in leather pumps, wing tips, stuff that kids (the burgeoning new market) wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. They would still have an aging, dying, establishment market but the gorilla in the room was baby boomers, who hated all of it, including leather in some cases. No matter what, the were "old" and everything "old" was suspect back then.

3. Nixon. Nixon being elected right after Bobby's murder (not to mention MLKs!) was kind of the end of hope, of the generations working together. Body bags would just keep coming from Vietnam with Nixon in office. Blood and guts were literally on TV every single night. Youth and adults WERE at war, but Bobby gave a glimmer of hope of working together within the system, instead we got Nixon, and then Johnson. "Don't trust anyone over 30!" became popular. Butler Shoes, a company well over 30, fit in with that.

4. The series has show has hinted, mostly through Peggy's ex boyfriend, but also with the duo team SC hired, that "kids" (ie the coming market) didn't like or trust advertising. Remember when Peggy was in the ambulance with her stabbed boyfriend and he said "I HATE everything you stand for." (etc.) Well, he wasn't alone. Even kids who had no political or philosophical bent were influenced by the whole "screw this" that may have begun with Tim Leary, but continued with Hippies, and then SDS, and Black Power, and protests, and certainly the fashion, which, in many cases as I said, became quite simple, homemade, and often skimpy. Of course there were exceptions, but purses were made out of old jeans and considered super cool, recycling was in, and that all trickled UP into rich people's worlds (if they were young enough, and sometimes even when they were old.)

It was such a dark year, nothing was working. As shown by Roger, even the early beautiful experiences on LSD he'd had has disintegrated into filth and orgies. Love Ins became protest marches and moratoriums. People who had tried communes found the same set of sexist problems they'd had in the establishment world. Women are about to burn bras and demand rights of their own. That whole early hope and "can do" love feeling just died with Bobby Kennedy, and Nixon's election. Now people were just angry and flailing, the young and old in many cases completely divided and trying to find their place to stand. While Manson might have been the final nail in the coffin, the seeds were already in the ground. Haight Ashbury raised their rents, early playing around with drugs became addictive and destructive to some. Free sex with anyone lost it's glamor quickly.

So, back to Butler Shoes. They had to change, maybe find other markets, maybe add more "simple" shoes like sandals, maybe branch out into non-leather items, certainly change their image, but in a way that didn't alienate their older buyers. Maybe add some plastic platform shoes, or some earth friendly material in flats, maybe make more sandals, or much less patent leather, certainly change their advertising.

With that creep at the helm of creative, that probably won't happen. Advertising also became even mercenary, and I kind of think that new guy's "don't care, they bought it, we made money, shut up about it" attitude became much more common than the Don and Peggy striving for excellence thing they had going when the company was smaller. Mathew Weiner is really good at getting the advertising agency trends right, so I doubt he pulled that out of his ass.
Edited by Mariah, Apr 14 2014, 07:12 PM.
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weaver
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Your are probably correct that it was an old fashioned shoe company and their styles wouldn't suit the marketplace. But Joan would have suggested they change their styles.................

In spite of the events that dragged everything down, I think the economy was booming.



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discomom
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For most of '69 I was 8. I remember how awful it was... the protests, the constant fear my brothers would be drafted, seeing blood and core in living color every night on tv. But as I was watching the episode, I turned to Mr. Disco and said, "I'd go back to 1969 again". For me, not really a care in the world, my family together, loved ones who have passed still alive.
I like the Supreme's version of Keep Me Hanging On as well, but I agree with Mariah, that Vanilla Fudge's version really had the right tone for the mood.
Hmmm.... just occurred to me.... I would like to go back to 1969; but I wonder about my parents. Were they happy? Were they getting "the life" they had dreamed about?
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weaver
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I just loved Diana Ross' version so much it was jarring to me to hear someone else sing it.

I think I'd love to be back where my life was in 1969.
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Mariah
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I would too, if only for the people I loved then that were still alive.

I like both versions of the song too, but the Vanilla Fudge was just perfect for this episode.

"I'm a man, yes I am and I can't help but love you so" jarred me when it blasted out in the beginning of the episode, but that worked too.

ETA, I think Joan will suggest they change their styles, and expand into other marketplaces, etc. That's what I took from the "we'll talk about it when we meet" answer, when the guy was practically begging her for help.

The main thing I got out of it was just how far Joan's come, she always had it in her, but now she's actually DOING it. So cool.
Edited by Mariah, Apr 15 2014, 04:05 PM.
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weaver
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And I thought "I'm a Man" did not work at all. They played it when they first showed Don, right? Don is at the stage where he is certainly doubting himself. He has to carefully control every drop he drinks, his relationship with Megan is not solid and it seemed to me it didn't much matter to him, he was fired, even though he is still getting paid. Everything in his life is uncertain, except he can still write a damn perfect commercial.

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cccharley
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I watched. Thinking about my opinions on things.

Did we all catch fixing Megan's teeth? Perhaps she was chosen bc of that. it's been an annoyance for many since the start. I didn't care.

I have read non of the reviews or blogs yet. We watched this afternoon

Was plane girl from party of 5 - Neve Campbell?

Favorite line was about Don being Cyrano. Oh so floved it.

Also loved Megan's clothes and hair. I want to wear that stuff again.
Edited by cccharley, Apr 15 2014, 06:14 PM.
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weaver
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This episode disappointed compared to last week's. I loved the Sally and the Sally/Don scenes, but otherwise it dragged a bit. Peggy and the flowers made no sense. We had no evidence that Chaough had been pursuing her since he moved to California, but all of a sudden, she assumes the flowers are from him? And then makes a stupid phone call to him? Didn't buy it at all. I think I had one of those dreadful dresses just like her secretary's, ugly print with the big white pointed collar, and the self belt that tied in the bag. And Stan is treating Peggy rather shabbily too with "didn't know your cat had the money," or whatever he said.

At least the Harry Hamlin character has recognized Joan's talents and given her a real office and taken away her admin work. Roger is a creep.

No Ken this week. Maybe he was getting his eye fixed.

It was nice to see Don telling Sally the truth and actually saying "I was embarrassed."



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Mariah
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I agree with most of what you said Weaver.

The only difference is that I kind of understood Peggy. Saying things are over is one thing, but are they really emotionally over? Ted is in a deep funk. Peggy has buried her feelings or changed them to anger, but Valentine's Day and her increasing frustration at work brought them to a head. She acted the fool I think, because nothing is working out for her. Both her career and her love life completely suck now.

She snapped and completely humiliated herself at work. She's caught between conflicting and understandable desires. The "home" and the "career" and for the first time neither one is satisfying. What's that saying, the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. She's not at all indifferent to Ted, so I think her feelings are still there. I think his are as well, he's doing the right thing, but he is completely miserable.

I cringed during Peggy's scenes, just hated them. It wasn't until this morning that I realized why. For me, they were completely real, completely raw, and so well done. I've been in those shoes, making a complete fool of myself because of love. At least for me, it wasn't at work!

Poor Peggy. Poor Ted. Everyone seems to be miserable now, except harry Hamlin, and maybe, Joan.

ETA just found this very thoughtful recap.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-mad-men-recap-valentines-day-20140420,0,3265918.story#axzz2zZEkyryd


Another interesting take on the show: http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-mad-men-a-days-work-horrible-bosses

ETA again, for those who love style and clothes, these are so good!
http://tomandlorenzo.com/tag/mad-style/
Edited by Mariah, Apr 21 2014, 08:25 PM.
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weaver
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Mariah
Apr 21 2014, 04:29 PM
I agree with most of what you said Weaver.

The only difference is that I kind of understood Peggy. Saying things are over is one thing, but are they really emotionally over? Ted is in a deep funk. Peggy has buried her feelings or changed them to anger, but Valentine's Day and her increasing frustration at work brought them to a head. She acted the fool I think, because nothing is working out for her. Both her career and her love life completely suck now.

She snapped and completely humiliated herself at work. She's caught between conflicting and understandable desires. The "home" and the "career" and for the first time neither one is satisfying. What's that saying, the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. She's not at all indifferent to Ted, so I think her feelings are still there. I think his are as well, he's doing the right thing, but he is completely miserable.

I cringed during Peggy's scenes, just hated them. It wasn't until this morning that I realized why. For me, they were completely real, completely raw, and so well done. I've been in those shoes, making a complete fool of myself because of love. At least for me, it wasn't at work!

Poor Peggy. Poor Ted. Everyone seems to be miserable now, except harry Hamlin, and maybe, Joan.

ETA just found this very thoughtful recap.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-mad-men-recap-valentines-day-20140420,0,3265918.story#axzz2zZEkyryd


Another interesting take on the show: http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-mad-men-a-days-work-horrible-bosses

ETA again, for those who love style and clothes, these are so good!
http://tomandlorenzo.com/tag/mad-style/
I still think he wasted too much time on the flower plot. Course he did get the secretaries switched.

Still no Betty and Henry, fine by me.
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cccharley
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I actually really enjoyed it. There are so many characters they brining them back in a good way I think. Loved the changing secretary scenes. Yeah, Roger was a joke to me foreshadowing that they will never get back together. Pete with a working gal as ruthless as he is. We'll see where it goes. Wonder if she's using him or they just have great sex based upon their similar goals. The opposite of his ex. who also found her voice last season. Off to read Tom and Lorenzo - regular blog. It's always been my favorite and even the responses. There are just so many I could never read the thousands.
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Mariah
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I had an odd thought last night, probably prompted by watching earlier season DVDs at night.

I wonder if somehow, Pete and Peggy will get back together by the end of this?
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cccharley
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who knows - where is that baby? first I thought it was with her sister but then I thought she put it up for adoption.

I'll add I loved Dawn getting an office. Actually despised Peggy last night - maybe they are making her the new Pete. There was nothing to like about her. Even knowing her situation I felt nothing. Maybe because of the way they did it or perhaps that I don't like power women who think they are godly but we know why she was acting like that from the other side - if you can follow me. Anyway - hopefully we'll see some sense of compassion in Peggy in the upcoming episodes. I hope she doesn't get that frozen permanently. Peggy always felt and that is what made her a good copywriter.
Edited by cccharley, Apr 22 2014, 04:20 PM.
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Mariah
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Peggy didn't fire her, just asked that she be reassigned because she felt humiliated by her own idiocy.

Oh, and it was really unclear in the show, since they had Peggy go in and look at her sister's baby. One of the few times I felt the writing screwed up. BUT the DVD commentary makes it very clear that was unintentional. Peggy gave up her baby for adoption. That was her sister's child, and they included the scene in an attempt to show that Peggy was still unable to be around babies, or even children. She was trying to do what Don advised her in that hospital when she had her break down. To move on, that it would shock her how much this never happened.

We've since seen scenes where it's obvious Peggy still has a great many feelings about giving up her baby. I do kind of wish they made it crystal clear she gave up the baby for adoption though. I thought it fit in so well with Pete's story about his parents objecting to adopting someone's thrown away kid.
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cccharley
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Yes that's why I changed what I thought. I pretty much figured it out but when it first occurred it did look like her sister took her kid. That was clarified.

I know she was humiliated but the way she went about it was not Peggy. It was nasty. I do not like or enjoy nasty Peggy. I understand it but I hate it. Just my thing. Well if anything it worked out great for Dawn. Hopefully they will have a heart to heart by the end of the show.
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