| Welcome to Freshsnarkdaily. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Mad Men | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 25 2013, 11:26 AM (11,084 Views) | |
| Mariah | May 4 2014, 01:17 PM Post #496 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I hope not, but you may be right. I have always rooted for Don, probably because of the incredible, and understated skill of John Hamm. He is, at least, integrating Dick and Don now, and being more honest, more faithful, limiting his drinking...so I keep hoping for the best. It does seem that he is completely being set up though. Even if he is fired and his shares reabsorbed though, if fired, he won't have that non-compete clause in effect, so he could work elsewhere OR start over. He still has his talent, and he's pretty well off (I think) even without those shares. I wonder about Peggy though, our example of one of the first successful women in a man's world. A completely happy ending for her might seem fake. I think watching her struggle to balance home/children/love against being a work superstar will be more real if she does have to sacrifice one or the other, or at least let one or the other take the backseat. Logically, that would be the home/family/love side for her. That whole "you CAN have it all!" as a woman is still almost impossible for most women to do. Now that I think of it, Heather on RHNY is probably one of the best examples (from what we've seen) of someone doing that. Good for her! My speculation is that Joan will come around, when she sees that Don really isn't doing his obnoxious "my way or the highway" and run roughshod over other partners blowhard, drunken, impulsive thing anymore. Peggy will come around because of their mutual issues with Lou, and she'll remember the good times, or perhaps Don will tell her that TED is the one who asked to go to California, in order to save his family, and that Don knows Ted loves her, and it wasn't an easy thing for him to do. Anyway, I think there will be a vote to fire him again, how can he avoid breaking one of those ridiculous rules. By that time though, I hope Burt and Joan are back on Don's side, giving him a chance, or maybe Ted will save the day, and vote his shares to keep Don. After all, Ted's a good guy, and he REALLY owes Don. That might be a nice resolution to this scary situation. |
![]() |
|
| weaver | May 4 2014, 01:25 PM Post #497 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
One thing mentioned in the Terty a Gross interview was interesting. She asked if they'd used smaller chairs and furniture when Don was waiting all day in that room. And Weiner said no, it was done with camera angles. But I thought that was all very pretentious. There was no need to make Don Look physically small, Hamm conveyed perfectly how he felt while coming down the hall, and sitting in that room. In fact I thought Hamm's acting was superb throughout the scenes of the day. BTW I thought Jessica Pare was very good too. |
![]() |
|
| weaver | May 4 2014, 01:51 PM Post #498 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I would like to see a happy ending for all. I always think of Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland saying "Let's put on a show." I'd like to see all the good guys say "Lets start our own agency." But I doubt it will happen. I think the head guy will go, maybe pushed out by Harry Hamlin, who seems to have certain business skills. But he doesn't appreciate Don, he appreciates numbers and computers. Maybe Harry will get his computer. Peggy is miserable now, they don't appreciate her work, she's scoffed at by her underlings, so I don't know what W will do with her. Maybe my recollection is wrong but I remember the 70's as the decade of great advertising. Wasn't that "I'd like to teach the world to sing," and "Where's the Beef, " and maybe "the Maytag Man" started? Maybe a bit later. What about the McDonald's ads ending in "two all beef patties, sauces...........on a sesame seed bun?" Don is still capable of great creative, like the Accutron ad........................I just don't know if he can thrive in this new world. Weiner seemed to make an effort this week to have him look out of date sartorially, and physically. I don't think though that he is going to accept his new role at SC&P as indicated by his "OK." As I said before he thinks he can work that out. Lots to mull on. Edited by weaver, May 4 2014, 01:54 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Mariah | May 4 2014, 02:16 PM Post #499 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
"Lot's to mull on." Yup. That is why I love this show so much. I can rewatch DVDs and commentaries multiple times, and never, ever, get bored, although certain storylines did irritate the hell out of me. My top two (maybe only) most irritating. The school teacher Don had the affair with. It's probably the ONLY story where the resolve made absolutely no sense to me. It's OK, because I didn't really want it to continue, and her brother's story was so tragic with no happy ending possible back then. Anyway, the part that made no sense to me is this. 1. When Betty kicked him to the curb, why didn't he run back to her? It WAS a love thing. She was great with kids too. Apparently he never even contacted her. WHAT? That just made so little sense, I mean, I can fanwank it into making sense, but I wish there had been on-screen resolve. 2. The affair with the doctor's wife. I mean, I get it, she had the mole and the headscarf and all that. Was that enough for him to completely betray one of the few men Don actually admired and liked, not to mention Megan? The only storyline I really liked was her son trying to avoid Vietnam, but even there, that horribly uncomfortable scene where Don nearly blew another account just made me cringe. (Although, it was real enough, given Don's state of mind.) Still I hated their affair, especially the whole domination thing. I realize Don has issues with the whole madonna/whore and his quite real mother issues *the real one was an actual whore after all, but may have been kind to him, instead of the horrible woman he got stuck with as a stepmother. It's confusing though, because Don switches back and forth from being a dom to wanting to be slapped (by that other whore.) So which is he? A submissive or a dom? Dabblers might play at being both, but people with deep issues, such as Don, usually is one or the other, not both. /musing |
![]() |
|
| Mariah | May 4 2014, 07:37 PM Post #500 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
http://www.vulture.com/2014/04/vincent-kartheiser-outtakes-things-learned.html?mid=twitter_vulture Vincent interview, kind of cute! (I seriously love Pete, and Vince K. mostly from the DVD comments) Posted Image How did I not know they were engaged? Their kids will have beautiful eyes. How cool! http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/mad_mens_vincent_kartheiser_and_alexis_bledel_are_engaged-2013-03 Edited by Mariah, May 4 2014, 07:43 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Mariah | May 4 2014, 10:43 PM Post #501 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Holy crap. I was chewing off my fingernails! This show can always shock the pants off me with how long it takes with emotions, and how fast the events can change. Watching this I realized I am TOTALLY rooting for Don, all of me. I'm so tense! I hate everyone else except Roger and the lowly creatives in that agency. WIN DON !! They don't even let the man who started the damn agency and made it work attend partner's meetings? WTF? Dead man's office. Sickening Lou. Reporting to Peggy? Cold as ice Bert? Love Marigold and the commune though... Back, so good! I hope Don teams up with Peggy, (who just got an incredible raise) to take down Lou and take back the company. http://www.vulture.com/2014/04/serial-killer-expert-analyzes-mad-men-for-clues.html Sepinwall's review of the episode: http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-mad-men-the-monolith-meet-the-mets/ One more: http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/mad-men-monolith-204202 The best one: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/05/mad-men-monolith_n_5265316.html Edited by Mariah, May 5 2014, 03:13 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| weaver | May 5 2014, 07:35 AM Post #502 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I don't know, I was a bit bored with last night's episode. I just can't buy the way Joan and Peggy are freezing Don out. The others, yes. Oh, I think Bert wouldn't be so cruel either. I've also never bought Don's controlling his drinking so I was happy it was addressed last night. Alcoholics can't drink a bit of a bottle and stop, the way Don was supposedly doing, marking his bottles. He has got to stop for good. Thank you Freddy. The commune scene went on way too long for me. Roger had some great lines though. All the acting was excellent, I just wanted to get back to Don, what's he doing, how is he handling this. I remember when IBM 360's were right in the office, in their own room. You'd bring in a box of keypunched cards with code on them. That's how you ran computer programs. I guess what Don was saying to the computer guy was "you are your own best ad," and I guess that is what he is now going to apply to himself. I hope he writes the best ad ever for Burger Chef or whatever. I'm rooting for him......................... AARRRGGGH, more Betty next week. There is NO TIME FOR BETTY! Only three shows left. |
![]() |
|
| Mariah | May 5 2014, 12:55 PM Post #503 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Wow, I was annoyed/nervous/antsy and kind of worried, but not bored. For me that was well done, because it did make me feel all of those things. I finally exhaled during the last scene. I liked the commune thing, especially with Roger, who has had some of those same thoughts about life himself see what selfishness and chasing after "being happy" can do to others in your life. I actually thought it captured the real feel of that time, and raised questions about many things. She was miserable, just like Roger, and she's trying something different, as has Roger. I think he saw himself in her. It's hard to put it all into words, but it worked for me. |
![]() |
|
| IcyAll | May 5 2014, 01:15 PM Post #504 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I was a bit bored, too, Weaver. I also felt like there wasn't enough substance -- like it barely got started and it was over. I did not know what Don was saying to Lloyd as he drunkenly left work -- that last review says he was saying "you're the devil, you're temptation" … What exactly does Bert do anyway? Much though I like Robert Morse, I'm kinda ready for him to kick off. He had such a look of contempt as Don came in, respectfully removing his shoes. I did not need that long car ride between Mona and Roger. Sometimes I feel like writers and producers give scenes just because they want to use their actors who are good, regardless of the need for the story to hear from them. |
![]() |
|
| Mariah | May 5 2014, 01:29 PM Post #505 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
http://www.tv.com/shows/mad-men/community/post/mad-men-season-7-episode-4-review-the-monolith-139873705582/ This is good too, talking about the emergence of feminism. It says more about what I was feeling in the scenes with Roger and Marigold. Peggy isn't the only one stepping out of strictly defined roles for women and the emergence of "what about us?" She was programmed to become her mother. She rejected it and so did many women back then, but there weren't all of the words and terms we use now. There was a strong feeling that it was wrong, but women were still in the baby step stages of becoming liberated. Hell, we still are. So, it's not that Marigold is right about this choice, but to me anyway, she's certainly right about rejecting the narrow options of either being subservient to a husband, or a (almost certainly) male boss at work. She got of the hamster wheel designed for her, and is looking for her own answers. The effort is admirable, if not the execution. I loved Roger and his ex wife together, because it really set it up for the Roger/Marigold scenes to resonate. Mona never got off the hamster wheel, really, never even thought about it. Roger kicked her off when he divorced her for a younger model. Mom, with a bottle of gin, crying in the bathroom. I know I sound like such a fan girl. It's because I am. I admit it. Ha. This show just continues to blow me away in so many ways. Maybe it's partly the blast from the past of my own life? http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/05/05/mad_men_s_2001_a_space_odyssey_the_kubrick_allusions_and_references_of_the.html Finally Tom and Lorenzo. (They don't care for the show / season so far either, and they make some excellent points) http://tomandlorenzo.com/2014/05/mad-men-the-monolith/ Edited by Mariah, May 5 2014, 02:24 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| weaver | May 5 2014, 02:24 PM Post #506 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Well as Roger said "there is always a hierarchy," and I suspect Marigold will find that her commune, where everyone is supposedly equal, is run by men. Even Fonda complained about that well after the fact. Marigold is just abandoning her responsibilities and living some sort of faux dream. I think she'll be running away to Bergdorf's soon again. I agree the car ride up to the farm was nice, because I love both actors, but too long, and not telling us anything we did not know. Meanwhile I was dying to know what was happening to Don at the office. I guess there have been so many scenes in so many movies/TV shows about hippie communes and such, that I thought "been there, done that can we get back to SC&P please." I don't believe that Bert would treat Don the way he did last night. I also don't believe the firm could be running just fine as he said. Don was the master copywriter (course he still is providing some of the copy through his surrogate) and Peggy was good too. Don isn't there, and they devalue Peggy's efforts, so who is creating the campaigns. Course Don has been gone only four months, maybe not time for the agency to fall down. Granted the computer will give them stats about markets, etc, but not ideas and concepts. I don't know what Bert does. Originally he was the connection to the old WASP element that ran things, but that is over now. His contacts must be old if not dead. Two seasons ago I thought he was gone, and was very surprised last year to see Robert Morse back. He does make every single line meaningful. It will be fun to see Peggy and Don work together on a great ad and somehow make Lou look stupid. Edited by weaver, May 5 2014, 02:26 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Mariah | May 5 2014, 02:27 PM Post #507 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I was editing while you posted weaver. Check the last link I added, Tom and Lorenzo have some pointed critiques and aren't terribly happy either. Oh, I totally agree with you about Marigold! The commune isn't the answer, but I do applaud her at least asking the questions. As you pointed out, the gender roles remained defined even in counter culture experiments. Baby steps. ETA While reading the Tom and Lorenzo piece, something just occurred to me. I'm reading the part of Bert acting out of character. Anyway, here it is, simple as the thought might be. Don has been the Alpha man in that company since "Shut the Door, Have a Seat." Now he's been gone for a few months, and perhaps Bert, the ball-less guy, PREFERS not bowing down to Don, or putting up with Don and his Alpha status anymore. I can see him, aging and conservative, really enjoying the ease of working with someone like Lou. Maybe it's just for him a quality of work-life issue? Don was in charge, and brought chaos. Lou isn't a board member, isn't threatening or brilliant, and remains subservient. Maybe? In a way, ditto that for the rest of them. It's probably been very peaceful around the office without Don, they are still making money, without the stress and Alpha in the room? Edited by Mariah, May 5 2014, 02:34 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| weaver | May 5 2014, 03:08 PM Post #508 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Maybe.....but I always saw a core in Bert of integrity, although he winked his eye at quite a few peccadillos. Peggy is miserable, she has to be. Everyone treats her like shit. In fact I don't buy the way the underlings talk to Peggy. Although if they notice how badly Lou treats her, maybe its plausible. I'd have thought she'd be happy to have Don back to confide in him; he always supported her. But no, she won't even talk to him. He was there for weeks and she never spoke to him. And why is Joan so mad, Don was the only one who objected to her sleeping with the Jaguar guy. And Lou doesn't appreciate Joan either, it was Cutler who promoted her to the office and the responsibility. I'll read all the recaps at the end of the season. Gotta say I miss TwoP so I could save all my epis, maybe watch them again, and read the ideas of others. I miss TwoP for the RL doings of Basketball Wives and 16 and Pregnant casts too. |
![]() |
|
| Mariah | May 5 2014, 06:26 PM Post #509 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I get Peggy, but Joan is a harder one to figure out. For Peggy I think it's mostly this. She's just unhappy, and, quite humanly, if not admirably, is looking for others to blame for her problems. * The stabbed boyfriend for sticking her with that run down hell hole. * Lou, for being an uncreative robot sexist pig making her work unrewarding. * Don for everything that happened with Ted, breaking up her "true love" situation, both by humiliating Ted during the Aspirin pitch, and for, as far as she know, arranging for Ted to take the California job Don was GOING to take. The last one is probably the most important. Working with Don has always been a two edged sword for her. Relishing in the good moments of similar creative minds, and being there for each other during trouble. BUT, he's also been a complete dick to her at times, and she's probably remembering each of those and magnifying it in her mind because of her fury and sadness about the Ted thing. Joan? All I can come up with is that Joan appreciates order, and again, Don is chaos. Also, she wants to be thought of as an account exec, not a secretary. Cutler basically undermined Don returning by giving her that office. The other HUGE thing is that Don's tantrum cost her a bundle. Her share was going to be a million dollars wasn't it? They were going public, but Don, once again, acted without talking to anyone else and screwed her over big time, all of them really, but Joan and Lane REALLY needed that money, Pete did too. He harmed them. Lane offed himself, he made it up (kinda) to Pete, but Joan was screwed. I'm hoping that Lou screws Peggy and Don in a different way, since his plan to cause them both to fail by putting her in charge of him is apparently not working, courtesy of Freddie. I have a feeling Lou will choose the worst option (again.) Hopefully though, that, and another account cause them to bond, and get back to what makes them magic. Don is not friendless really, it's just that two board members who are probably on his side are in LA right now. I honestly think he's got most of creative (not Peggy) and Roger, Pete, and Ted on his side. Joan, I hope, will come around and see that Cutler is using her. I don't know if those guys will win or not, because Lou will rely on the computer and undermine them every step of the way. Perhaps Cooper will die, causing Ted and Pete to come home for a major board meeting, and when Ted sees what they've done to Don, I think it will bother him. He owes Don. I don't know, but I am still hoping for a mostly positive resolve here. |
![]() |
|
| Cosmocrush | May 5 2014, 08:35 PM Post #510 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I'm still getting caught up on this thread (thanks for all the links - I will read them all) and the great comments. One thing I don't understand though is how so many people are rooting or expecting a happy ending or for things to work out for Don. Hasn't his fall been predicted from the very first episode of the first season - the entire opening graphic is of Don falling: work, women, booze, etc. So wasn't the entire series really how this happens? I'm pissed that this last season is split into basically two seasons since they are a YEAR apart. Grrrrrr. I guess they want to sell more DVDS. |
![]() |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · TV Drama · Next Topic » |





![]](http://z2.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)




4:19 AM Jul 11