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Mad Men
Topic Started: Jan 25 2013, 11:26 AM (11,113 Views)
weaver
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I was very disappointed with last night's episode. Too much time was spent on people I really don't care about. And Megan (Pare) is just so bad, when she switches from her soap character mode to her real mode, you can't tell the difference. Frankly, I couldn't buy that Don was jealous after watching that soap scene. Yeah, he is possessive, but not stupid. And the writer/producer guy offering them to come home and swing, nah that didn't ring true either. Weiner is getting hamfisted.

Joan in the swinging bar was just wrong, and who was that woman, her sister? Never got that straight. So many times I've been disappointed when Weiner just throws the 60's at us, and doesn't seem to get it right. That bar looked so fake. At last Joan looked right in the final scene when she comes in the office late with a great power suit on. She looked like the executive she now realizes she is, Jaguar or no.

So it seems Peggy didn't mind much that Chaough made her go after Heinz. Just like Don, she has no scruples when it comes to advertising. Don went after it too, letting the pickle guy long term client down. So they lose the pickle account. How will Peggy connect to SCDP now, if she is no longer friends with Stan.

I don't care much about Harry. How does HE know about Joan and Jaguar?

I wanted to see more of Allison Brie, she was in the opening credits. No such luck.



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Mariah
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I liked it a lot.

EXCEPT the giant clunker of Don being jealous of Megan (I didn't buy it either) and the anvil of Don's issues with prostitutes. I have faith in the writers to make this pay off by the end of this season though, but the handling of it last night was missing the usual deftness of this show.

I LOVED Joan's whole story! It all felt real to me, a been there, done that feeling for me. Especially when the board didn't fire Harry's ass, and Harry's whole attitude just fit the times for me. I don't know if that was her best friend or sister either, but I totally got 2 women on the town going to the phone bar for some sexual adventures. They spend their day hours trying to negotiate the quite new world of female executives. I also loved how they talked about their mutual envy--it felt so real to me. I've had almost that exact conversation with one of my friends around that time.

They hit Dow, the Columbia student demonstration, The Smothers Brothers (a very funny and outrageously political and critical show that was soon cancelled but was an amazing gift while it was on) and RFK's run for president, wife swapping/swinging, and the new bar scenes.

Harry thinks he is a big shot now, since he fell into the TV job and EXACTLY the right time, and is constantly flying to coast to coast, seeing another world than just Madison Avenue, and probably could go to the competition quite easily, since he's been in it since it began.

Don would have done the same thing to Peggy, and I think that is what her little smile was about. She BEAT him, both ways, and no matter what else was going on, that had to feel great.
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weaver
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Quote:
 
Don would have done the same thing to Peggy, and I think that is what her little smile was about. She BEAT him, both ways, and no matter what else was going on, that had to feel great.


Oh, yeah, Don would have done it, after all he betrayed his own client. But Peggy betrayed Stan, seemingly her only friend.

How else did she beat Don? They didn't go with either agency.
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Mariah
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They chose Peggy's ad!

Ted said at the bar, "they bought it right then" or something like that.

????
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cccharley
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watching at 8 - I'll come back later. I always find something I like in all the episodes.
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weaver
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No, they mentioned a big agency that Heinz bought from, forget the name.
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Mariah
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Really? Wow, I completely misread that scene, now I have to watch it again.

ETA, reading a recap, and of course you are right! Dang, I need to pay more attention!

Quote:
 
But the big build-up to CGC vs. SCDP over Heinz Ketchup wound up being a red herring: Ted and Peggy sidle up to a dejected Don, Pete and Stan at a bar to announce that neither firm got the account. Plus, both parties are further chastised for their unfaithful behavior: "Beans," having gotten wind of the secret meeting with "Ketchup," dumps SCDP, and Stan returns Peggy's sheepish grin with a raise of his middle finger.


Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/mad-men-recap-the-sell-outs-20130422#ixzz2REfjggxI
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook
Edited by Mariah, Apr 22 2013, 06:55 PM.
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weaver
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I wondered when Peggy first casually mentioned to Chaough what Stan had told her if she really knew Chaough would go after Heinz and she could pretend to at least initially be opposed to it. Peggy is usually very discreet and it didn't seem in character that she would blab confidential information to Chaough.


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cccharley
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JWT - J Walter Thompson was the agency. Did everyone catch Peggy getting the finger? She's becoming Don and I am not so happy about it. I guess the copywriter learned his lesson and Peggy lost a long term friend. I think they were both there from the beginning. I was really hoping she didn't become a business bitch but that's not going to happen. There are 2 ways to look at it. She needs to do it to prove herself in a man's business number one and number 2 she is just way too ambitious and doesn't consider anyone her friend. Honestly I hope it comes and bites her in the ass. I always really liked Peggy but I'm not loving her these days. Of course that could change on a dime. I hated the way she treated her pregnancy - no matter how you look at it she's still a woman. How can you not think of the baby ever just to get ahead? Must be the mother in me.
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cccharley
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On to Harry - he's important. Way more important than he knows. He is highly pissed at Joan because of her partnership over him last season. He has brought way more to the table. In the future TV advertising - the department he started himself - will overtake print in a big way. They need him. Maybe he will leave. He is an ass but yes it's the way many acted at the times and he is getting very angry. First to change his office and then not to get a partnership over a secretary. He may not be nice but I think he was pushed there as well. A combo. I think he will be quite valuable and losing him would be a big mistake. He was super pissed at Joan bc she fired his secretary as a partner. We shall see.

Here was a comment that was really good on one of the blogs -insightful: I forgot a lot of these things - i don't rewatch episodes

Before I head off to work – where I don’t punch in or out – here are some doubles I noticed:

“Project K” is about ketchup, but Ginsburg thinks it’s about the war. And of course while SCDP and CGC fight it out in the battle over Heinz, there’s a real war, with real blood, and not fake blood made of ketchup being spilled.

Kate is going to the Waldorf to interview with Avon. Remember the Waldorf Stories episode in Season 4? That’s where we see Joan with Roger. It was good to see Roger stick up, even tangentially, for Joan when the unspeakable Harry Crane tried to parlay Broadway Joe into a partnership. Also from season 4, Peggy’s advice to Don that prompted his Why I Quit Smoking Letter – If you don’t like what they’re saying, change the conversation – is now a pitch for ketchup, the Coca Cola of condiments. (One legal aside here. I believe that “Ketchup” was originally Heinz’s trademark name for the generic condiment “catsup.” It’s apparently been so watered down now that, unlike Coca Cola, it doesn’t seem a brand name anymore.)

Look at all the lunch counters. Dawn and her friend are still sitting at a segregated one up in Harlem, eight years after the sit-in movement began at a lunch counter in Greensboro, with the same double standard. Joan and her friend are sitting at one that’s a totally fake concept restaurant with phones on the table, pretending to be girls in from the stix. And then there’s SCDP and CGC at the same bar with all the loyalties and betrayals.

And finally, the doors. No, not the group, but this week, Don is outside the door while Peggy pitches inside. Last week, Don was outside two other doors, slumped in front of his own and peering, as a young boy, into a room where he watched his stepmother and “Uncle” Mac – both fake versions of real relationship. Now, he’s offstage, watching his real wife have fake sex. How far we’ve fallen from the idealistic vows in the Book of Common Prayer.
Edited by cccharley, Apr 23 2013, 12:31 PM.
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Mariah
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Good points ccc, but I completely disagree about Peggy being a bitch. Peggy did nothing more and nothing less than we saw the guys doing last year. They heard a rumor and went after some account where clients were unhappy! Oh yeah, it was Don and the shrink girlfriend--much more unethical to put her in that position. I just bristle when a woman is called names for doing what men do EVERY SINGLE DAY in business.

It's not a tea party, it's business. She can be a nice lady elsewhere, at work, she needs to be just as assertive as the men she is competing with or she's useless and wimpy. Women can't win.

I completely agree with you about Harry's importance, he fell ass-backwards into that job, but he's been at it from the beginning and no one knows more than he does about it, or has his LA relationships.

That said, without Joan, the company wouldn't even exist, and I don't mean just her fucking that fat pig to get the Jaguar account. Remember when they decided to split from having the company sold out from under them? Without Joan telling them where everything was and being the organizing force, they could have NEVER done it. There would be no company without her. Also, she was the one who held everything together administratively when they did start back up in the apartment she found and set up.

Administration may not be as glamorous as Creative, Sales, or Media, but it is critical to the company, and Joan is in charge of Admin, and has been since before they gave her that title and made her part of the board.

Oh, and I swear that BOTH of those Heinz Ketsup adds ran at one point. Don's had ketsup starting to drip on the food from above, hadn't reached it yet.
Edited by Mariah, Apr 23 2013, 02:10 PM.
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IcyAll
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Mariah, was that the "anticipation" campaign? With Carly Simon's song?

Yeah, double-standards all over the place. I wanted them to fire Harry, but it wouldn't have been accurate for the time. I wanted to have Joan insist on him being fired, but it's part of her character arc for her to find her power. Harry knows about Joan fucking Jaguar, which he could tell anyone, especially if he's fired and has no loyalty.

I do get Don coming to watch Megan -- he couldn't help himself, just as he had to peek through the keyhole to see his mother with that skeezy guy. That scene horrified me. What she had to do, pregnant ... I know women did it/do it/will always be in that situation, but I hate to see it.

That kid who played young Don -- what the fuck was up with that haircut? Overdo on a "bowl cut" idea, I think. Hair and Makeup fucked up on that one.

Why would Peggy say that bit about "change the conversation" after Don had just pitched them? It's HIS thought -- what if he said it? That was stupid. I wish (again with the ahead of the storyline wishes!) that Peggy would actively look for other women to bring in as copywriters and replace those three jackasses who work for her.

I liked Joan handing off the keys to Dawn; like Dawn's response.
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Mariah
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I think Peggy would hire anyone with talent, but she wouldn't go out and look for someone to "help." She's all about the work, and could give a shit about the color or sex of the person producing it. She just wants people that work their ass off and stay all night if needed because they love it all, the way she did.

Yes! Icy, I think it was the "Anticipation" campaign! Thank you!
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IcyAll
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Forgot to add: I watched all the first four seasons of MAD MEN via Netflix. The subscription is $10 a month? We get it direct to our TV ... if that would work for anyone wanting to Ketchup. ;)
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Mariah
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I bought them because they were so cheap, and I've never seen more DVD extras on any series set.

Oh, this is what is really fascinating me.

Don thinks of all women as whores apparently. Yet he continually defends Joan, tried to stop her from from Jaguar asshole, and looked heartbroken. He still stands up for her, last episode he deliberately sabotaged Jag asshole's push for 60% local ads for his sleazy little dealership. Why is Don so understanding and protective of Joan, and such a beast to other "whores?"
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