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1080pointless?; Am I missing something?
Topic Started: Oct 16 2006, 10:02 PM (421 Views)
Jocky
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Everyone's been harping on about 1080p recently (well, Sony/MS have). Sony saying that the PS3 will be 'true HD' 1080p, and then MS deciding to put out a 1080p update for the 360 in the future.

Except I'm a bit confused, because I don't seem to be able to see any HDTV's that display 1920x1080 pixels or better in any shops. There are plenty that display '1080p' but they all seem to display 1024x768 or 1366x768, which to my mind means they can only natively display 720p, and have to scale back down any images they receive at 1080p.

Am I right? Confused.
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DC-ARENA
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There aren't many TVs on the market that display 1080p natively, or what Sony (in general, not just SCE) like to call True HD. Check out the Sony Bravia 'X' and 'W' range on their website, or better still drop into a Sony centre and check them out, they'll most likely have one hooked up with Sky Sports HD.

You're correct, TVs which display 1024x768 (AVOID) or 1366x768 (basically 720p, some panels vary very slightly) will scale the 1080 image. On top of this, there aren't many that will display 1080p, only 1080i.

Sony 46inch 'W' Series. Their "cheaper" True HD display:
http://www.sony.co.uk/view/ShowProduct.act...gory=TVP+LCD+TV

Sony 46inch 'X' Series. The top of the range model:
http://www.sony.co.uk/view/ShowProduct.act...gory=TVP+LCD+TV

Online, you can get the 40" 'W' Series for about £1,600.00, and the 46" 'W' Series for about £2,300.00. The 'X' Series are around £3k and £3.5k.

Sony also do the 'V' Series which is their top of the range 720p LCDs. The 32" is about £950 online these days.

If you're spending that sort of money, personally I'd go one of the True HD Series, then it will be native resolution on Sky HD (which broadcasts in 1080i), Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, and of course for the few games that will support 1080p on PlayStation3. Which surprisingly is quite a few. 720p panels are excellent, but as you now have the option, and will be wanting to keep it for a long time to come, you might as well go for the 1080p panels. That's what I'd do anyway.

However, as Sony have literally just recently introduced the 'W' Series to be True HD (they were 720p previously), more and more of their range (and everyone elses) will switch over to 1080p soon enough. Perhaps wait it out for a while?

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Jocky
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I'm not particularly desperate to buy an HDTV just yet, I'll be buying a house soon, so that's going to sap enough money from the bank account. Just seemed odd that I couldn't find any sets that could actually display 1080p natively through traditional retail channels.
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SteMacD
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We're always last to get that sort of thing tho arnt we? probably loads of them available in the us and japan?
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Jocky
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Pffff. None of this 1080p rubbish for me. I'm going to 1440p!

47inches at 3,840x2,160
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would not go so far as to say pointless but belive that technology is moving far too fast at the moment for anything to catch on

the last 6 to 12 months has seen the biggest TV sales boom since the big Widescreen push of 96 (UK Euro Championship) and I can see all this talk of 1080p just really annoying people

its the same with HD and Blu-Ray - yes I am a fuly paid up HD member but then again I was into Laserdisc - its going to be more of an enthusiasts marker even with teh 360 add on and PS3 playing blu-ray

I still see and hear of people with TVs costing best part of 2 grand connecting them via a dodgy Scart cable and not having RGB enabled - they even seem happy
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bigdaddysokol
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In terms of games, how much further do you think graphics will progress in this HD era. The PS3 is going to support 1080 (I think anyway?) but will the next generation of consoles be able to keep pushing the boundaries. I, like any other gamer, swoon over graphics but I still like want a game to look distinct from reality. I worry that graphics could become almost too photo-realistic in the future and that this may detract from the escapism that gaming can currently can offer.
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Jocky
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bigdaddysokol
Oct 19 2006, 09:34 AM
In terms of games, how much further do you think graphics will progress in this HD era. The PS3 is going to support 1080 (I think anyway?) but will the next generation of consoles be able to keep pushing the boundaries. I, like any other gamer, swoon over graphics but I still like want a game to look distinct from reality. I worry that graphics could become almost too photo-realistic in the future and that this may detract from the escapism that gaming can currently can offer.

The creep towards photorealism detracting from the escapism?


I think that we're about to reach limit that can be reached simultaneously in both game scope (i.e. the immersiveness of something like the GTA series) and realism (in terms of graphical and physical reality) - the risk of development is getting too high - Rockstar spent something like $30-40 million on San Andreas.

My prediction is that graphical enhancements will creep along now, with improvements being driven by smaller, more focused projects, but then being adapted for use by the 'big guns' that can be guaranteed to sell, but need that technological update to do so.

The bigger change in the industry is going to be in both user participation (see the Second Life community), and the general expansion out into other areas and types of game.
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Lost Phil
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Not sure about the 1080p stuff myself, to be honest I still like the picture on our Quintrix standard def Panny downstairs :D

In terms of graphics in games, hopefully with the arrival of games like the PS3 Metal Gear (can't think of any other examples, sorry!) which look stupidly good anyway, developers will stop trying to advance graphics further and concentrate on the content of the games. I can imagine that a lot of a development budget is used up on the graphics side of things which I think is a bit of a shame.

My favourite game of all time, Deus Ex (Final Fantasy 7 came incredibly close) ran on a tweaked Unreal Tornament engine which must've saved a packet in game engine development and look at the results. At the time, that was a very well crafted game.

I think that we need a couple of good game engines developed that can be sold off to other companies. Maybe then we'll get the creative breakthroughs that we want rather than generic "pretty" games. I don't know, just my opinion.

Still not going to get a PS3 or Xbox 360 :P
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1080p man
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Jocky
Oct 16 2006, 10:02 PM
Everyone's been harping on about 1080p recently (well, Sony/MS have). Sony saying that the PS3 will be 'true HD' 1080p, and then MS deciding to put out a 1080p update for the 360 in the future.

Except I'm a bit confused, because I don't seem to be able to see any HDTV's that display 1920x1080 pixels or better in any shops. There are plenty that display '1080p' but they all seem to display 1024x768 or 1366x768, which to my mind means they can only natively display 720p, and have to scale back down any images they receive at 1080p.

Am I right? Confused.

I had a demo the other day of two TVs:

KDL46V2000
KDL46X2000

Both hooked up to identical PCs, with samples of SD, 720p and 1080p material (same video footage, different resolutions).

Wth SD material, the X series was a poor performer. When displaying 720p material, both were pretty much even. However, with 720p on the V2000 and 1080p on the X2000, the difference was incredible, especially at closer distances.

I find that most people who say 1080p is pointless are those who don't want to, or can't afford it. How can 1080p NOT be better than 720p, like-for-like? Just accept the fact that 1080p is better, and if you want it, you have to pay reasonably big money for it, although the new SHARP TVs are much better value than the SONYs.

I'm not saying 1080p will always be better, but if you can afford it, why not go for it and take advantage of the 1080p games and HD movies coming out? At the end of the day, 1080p will be as common and as cheap as 720p, making way for 1440p and 2160p.
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Jocky
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I think you missed the point of my post. I was confused as to the fact that Sony has been harping on about 1080p, yet I couldn't find any 1080p sets on my short search through a few retail channels.

Obviously I now know that there are 1080p sets appearing on the market...
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Lost Phil
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Just out of interest, what is the picture quality of standard definition images on HD televisions like compared to standard def televisions? Thats without upscaling DVD players by the way.
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dunkle
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Lost Phil
Oct 22 2006, 04:22 PM
Just out of interest, what is the picture quality of standard definition images on HD televisions like compared to standard def televisions? Thats without upscaling DVD players by the way.

would say depends on the set

all sources I have viewed on mine look top
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Zed
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Some people have said if your TV is less than 60" you wont notice much difference between 720p and 1080p, not sure how true that is, but projectors are 1080p and at 100" you can really start to see the difference between jumps in quality.

Of course for gaming sometimes thats a bit too large (i remember my eyes drying out while playing Burnout on the PJ) but there is a point to 1080p, you just have to be in a position to take advantage of it; ie not be a poverty stricken student type, who shouldnt be using my deity(s) damned tax money to buy expensive electronics with their loans anyway <_< (just generalising)
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Zed
Oct 23 2006, 05:36 AM
Some people have said if your TV is less than 60" you wont notice much difference between 720p and 1080p, not sure how true that is, but projectors are 1080p and at 100" you can really start to see the difference between jumps in quality. 

Of course for gaming sometimes thats a bit too large (i remember my eyes drying out while playing Burnout on the PJ) but there is a point to 1080p, you just have to be in a position to take advantage of it;  ie not be a poverty stricken student type, who shouldnt be using my deity(s) damned tax money to buy expensive electronics with their loans anyway <_< (just generalising)

People who say you need 60" or above to benefit from 1080p clearly don't have a clue, and only care about screen size. They seem to forget about this thing called viewing distance. Not everybody has huge rooms or wants a huge TV. Viewing a 37" screen at 6 feet is "effectively" the same as viewing a 74" screen at 12 feet. It therefore stands to reason that if 1080p is good for a 74" TV at 12 feet, it will be equally as good for a 37" TV at 6 feet.

Besides, it's been proven that playing games on large screens where you have to constantly "search" is much more difficult. A smaller, higher resolution screen is muc better.
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